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NOOB Hacking Through a Ruby Build

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1:20 scale accucraft live steam noob ruby
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#22 ·
Vapor Trails said:
Thank you SRC! This helps a lot! It also makes me want to hunt down a copy of the complete book by Dave Hottmann! Thank you for pushing me in the right direction!

During a break from tuning, I finished up the boiler(page 5). Going to spend more time with the valves and tuning before I put everything together on page 6.
Click to expand...
-- Hi VT,
Just in case you haven't found Hottmann's "Book" or his Info on Ruby Valve-Setting, etc...... out of curiosity I did a simple Google search for "David Hottmann - Ruby Live Steam Locomotive Valve Setting", and I was successful in finding LOTS of detailed PDF's & Videos(?) on Hottmann's Ruby topic. Thought this Info may be of benefit to you! "Vaporo In Fraternitate!" -- Ken
 
Discussion starter · #23 ·
Thanks, I'll definitely be getting a pump bottle for ease of loading. I also want to pick up some 45mm treadmill rollers to use for testing.

I am being challenged with dialing the valve settings in... Just can't seem to get the stars to align for Forward/Neutral/Reverse. I seem to be able to get two of three working right, but can't get all three.

Will work on it some more tomorrow, then taking a break for a couple days and will come back with a fresh mind.
 
#24 ·
Vapor Trails said:
Thanks, I'll definitely be getting a pump bottle for ease of loading. I also want to pick up some 45mm treadmill rollers to use for testing.

I am being challenged with dialing the valve settings in... Just can't seem to get the stars to align for Forward/Neutral/Reverse. I seem to be able to get two of three working right, but can't get all three.

Will work on it some more tomorrow, then taking a break for a couple days and will come back with a fresh mind.
Click to expand...
One thing to take note on with the Accucraft Ruby. My version, and those previous, had the holes in the valve chest too far apart for the spool used in the valve chest. This means that there is too big of a dead band in between the cylinder's push and pull events in order to properly time it for good running forward AND reverse. As it came you could choose to time it to run well in forward OR reverse, not necessarily both.

One of the previous posts I believe indicated an article that I followed to correct this as well as you can without completely replacing the valve chest. If you want to correct this now, you'll need to disassemble the engine enough to remove the valve chest and possibly drill the ports out. Or as I built mine I set it for best running forward, and after a time I disassembled it and modified the ports.

This thread is my documentation of modifications I've done to mine.
 
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#25 ·
In regard to Valve-Timing & Adjustments of the Ruby.....
-- Like Tdreabe, I too found it impossible to set the Ruby Valve-Timing to run equally at its best in Forward and Reverse. One had to choose which direction he preferred the Lokey to run at its best, or choose to run equally in both directions but not at its best. With my 1999 Edition of Ruby, I chose to run it best in Forward, as I rarely ever wanted to run it in Reverse (which is not to say it ran really badly in Reverse, it was simply pretty "lame"). This problem is common to several similarly designed small scale Locos.
-- As far as "finding" a good "Forward, "Neutral", and "Reverse" on the Reversing Lever Quadrant (Johnson Bar) by tinkering with the various adjustments provided..... It seems that with simple Lokeys like the Ruby having "Piston-Valves" in the steam chests, and a "Piston-Valve" Reverser in the Saddle, a good "Neutral" position on the Lever Quadrant is basically not achievable, there doesn't seem to be a true "null point"..... That is, when in "Neutral", if the Throttle is cracked or opened, the Lokey will always want to "creep" in the Forward or Reverse direction because of the Valve & Porting design dimesions (unlike a Loco having "D-Valves" and a decent Valve-Gear mechanism where this "creeping" problem is seldom encountered). With the Ruby in "Neutral" it will not "creep" unless the Throttle is opened (but then why would the Throttle need to be opened with the Lokey in "Neutral"??)..... With the Ruby, although the "Piston-Valves" in the Cylinders and in the Saddle Block, and the "Ports", are machined accurately (but are not perfectly "Ported" as Treabe has kindly mentioned), there seems to be just enough "steam blow-by" or "leakage" around these P-V's to allow the Lokey to "creep" when in Neutral with any steam applied. With Ruby it just seems to be the "Nature of the Beast" !! For myself, this was not a big problem, it was simply something to be aware of, but something I could easily live with. 🤔🙄🙂 Cheers! Ken S.
 
Discussion starter · #29 · (Edited)
I am back on the Ruby Project!

I've read everything I have gotten my hands on, and am curious, did you all find it necessary to switch to inside admission? (article from Dave Hottman). I am not, at least at this moment in time.

I think I've got the Fwd/N/Rev sorted out to my liking, but I've never done this before so what I think is acceptable, might really be garbage... I expect I'll still need to dial it in a bit once I get it running.

I am proceeding with the build and am into page 6, where I found another issue. I've only got one H-M2-6 screw left to secure the front of the boiler, but I need 4. I went back and confirmed, I have ONLY used the (SUS) screws where designated, but still I am missing three H-M2-6 screws and I have five extra (SUS) screws. My initial thought was that I used the standard screws where I should have used SUS, but I confirmed I installed the correct screws along the way...

Any objection/issues with using four SUS screws to secure the front of the boiler? It does not appear there are any called for during the remainder of the build, so I intend to use the SUS and finish Page 6.



I keep finding excerpts from Dave Hottman articles, is there a database where all his teachings might be found in one place? Does Dave have a YouTube channel, or Facebook or Instagram? I have found videos of his Ruby, but not found any educational videos.

Odd question, but it has been bouncing around my head nonetheless, does anyone know why the Red variant does not come with matching paint on the boiler? It seems every other color offered has the boiler painted to match the cab, but not the red version... just seemed odd.



I thought I had every tool I could possibly need from building giant scale airplanes, but this project humbled me. Compliments to Model Motorcars for their TINY tools! I picked up the full set of Knupfer tiny wrenches (1.5mm, 2mm, 2.5mm, 3mm, 3.5mm, 4mm) and they are PERFECT. Thin profile but sturdy, though I do wish they were about 2 inches longer.
 
#30 ·
Vapor Trails said:
I think I've got the Fwd/N/Rev sorted out to my liking, but I've never done this before so what I think is acceptable, might really be garbage... I expect I'll still need to dial it in a bit once I get it running.
Click to expand...
Good to hear you've got it going in both directions. What psi were you testing with?

Vapor Trails said:
I've only got one H-M2-6 screw left to secure the front of the boiler, but I need 4
Click to expand...
If you need screws I can send you some in a regular letter envelope for free, but they are just M2x6 I actually used allen head screws when mounting the boiler I found it easier than trying to align a screwdriver without ruining the head.
 
Discussion starter · #31 ·
Thanks brother! My pressure setup is super cheap and old, I am showing 20-30 psi, but I am having to feather power on and off to keep pressure low... my setup is far from precise.

I appreciate the offer on screws, I got it together though.

I was curious about this comment at the 7 minute mark, using loctite between the jet nozzle and the jet holder (parts 8 and 9)- is it necessary to use a high-temp thread locker or no?

Additionally, is there anything that secures the jet nozzle/jet holder in place to the boiler, or is the stiffness of the gas pipe supposed to keep things in place?

 
#33 ·
You shouldn't need locktite thread locker anywhere on these locos. If you do find yourself resorting to thread locker, please make sure it is the low strength pink stuff. The most medium blue. Never use the red stuff on these tiny screws. You'll end up with stripped screws if you need to dismantle it in the future.
There is a locktite brand thread sealer that would be appropriate on the gas fitting.

Tyler
 
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Discussion starter · #34 ·
Ive had some health delays so I keep tinkering. I added the pressure gauge, replaced stock safety valve with a 60 psi from WeeBee and picked up a Summerlands Chuffler while I figure out a track layout...
 
Discussion starter · #35 ·
Everyone I have come across has championed the Accucraft bottle with Goodall fittings, and I can't help but wonder why?

I picked one up and it leaks with every pump, water just dribbles out above and around the trigger. It also pushes a lot of air into the hose, even when full of water.

With the amount of water loss with each pump, there is no way to measure how much water is going in the tank. Perhaps I got a lemon? It is rather disappointing...
 
#36 ·
The leak is concerning. Check for the obvious, I'm sure you have, if the fitting is loose that holds the hose. Then call Accucraft to see about a replacement if it is new.

The air in the line I've found to be benign. I attribute it to cavitation. If you make slow steady pumps there's less air than fast pumps.

Given no leaks, I'll open one of the other fittings and count the number of pumps through the Goodall valve it takes to fill the loco from empty to 3/4 full. Then, once I know the locos usual run time, I make sure I put 2/3 that many pumps in, half way through the fuel tank's run time. Every one reads the manual that says the fuel is sized to run out first, but I've found I have to put in water like stated above twice before I need fuel on mine.

Keep in mind that how fast it's running and how hard it's pulling will effect water use. When pulling a 14 car train with mine, I was adding water every 3-5 minutes.

Tyler
 
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#37 ·
Tdreabe said:
The leak is concerning. Check for the obvious, I'm sure you have, if the fitting is loose that holds the hose. Then call Accucraft to see about a replacement if it is new.

The air in the line I've found to be benign. I attribute it to cavitation. If you make slow steady pumps there's less air than fast pumps.

Given no leaks, I'll open one of the other fittings and count the number of pumps through the Goodall valve it takes to fill the loco from empty to 3/4 full. Then, once I know the locos usual run time, I make sure I put 2/3 that many pumps in, half way through the fuel tank's run time. Every one reads the manual that says the fuel is sized to run out first, but I've found I have to put in water like stated above twice before I need fuel on mine.

Keep in mind that how fast it's running and how hard it's pulling will effect water use. When pulling a 14 car train with mine, I was adding water every 3-5 minutes.

Tyler
Click to expand...
Hi Tyler,
-- Speaking for myself...... I have never liked the idea of "Goodall Valves", they have always seemed to be quite unpredictable, and just one more item to maintain, and fiddle with(!), but I admit they are probably useful for those steaming on longer flat tracks, and when attempting much longer "Marathon Run" times (especially with locos equipped with a Water Glass), and when hauling longer, heavier train loads.
-- On my "Azure Range Ry" for myself, achieving average "Total Run Times" of @ 22 to 50 minutes, depending on the individual loco's Boiler H2O volume, is a plenty long enough of a steam session..... before a "break" is desired!! My 2014 built "garage track" is only a 40 foot flat-oval circuit. However since 1999, I have enjoyed 45mm gauge steaming, and on the AR-Ry steamups are frequent, at any hour of the day, in any season..... and I do not mind steaming rather monotonous lap runs. My train lengths are only 4 to 6 Cars in length (a pretty light load for any 45mm gauge loco!). I own both Roundhouse and Accucraft locos, each always steamed using the "one boiler water filling per steam run" procedures (without any Goodall valves).
-- I have found that Roundhouse locos (having the usual Katie & Lady Anne sized Boilers) are far more predictable to steam, even for locos lacking a Water Glass..... and with GOOD operator "FINESSE" the average "Boiler/Burner" total times can be eventually & reliably increased to be consistently upwards of 50 minutes, less the @ 7-10 minutes to gently Raise Steam & Clear the Cylinders, then they will "run out of gas"...... without first running out of H2O in the Boiler!! The water level remaining in the Boiler is typically 50-65 ML which is plenty enough to prevent "running dry" and risk any scorching of the Flue & Boiler (this data is for short trains, steamed at sedate scale speeds of of 10-20 MPH). To achieve this level of "Finesse" takes lots of patient observation and steaming "practice". Controlling the Boiler pressure by limiting Gas flow to prevent "wastage" of H2O at the Safety Valve is one of the most important habits. Running heavier, faster trains will of course increase H2O consumption, and may increase the "running dry" risk before the Gas runs out, each live-steam operator should experiment to suit his own preferred practice.
-- I have owned three Accucraft locos (with and without Water Glasses), and compared to Roundhouse locos, the Accucraft locos have always been far less predictable and much more difficult to "Finesse" to obtain any consistent "Standard Operating Procedure". When a good "Finesse" is used, contrary to what the Owners Manual claims, their Boilers can commonly be made or found to be "run dry" before the Gas runs out..... even with hauling short trains at sedate scale speeds (of course, the "Run Times" will vary with each Loco's Boiler H2O volume and efficiency of steam consumption). Typically, I will experiment with each Loco, with or without a Water Glass, to determine a "Safe SOP", i.e: that is, a safe maximum Boiler/Burner TIME (including the 7-10 minutes to gently Raise Steam & Clear the Cylinders) to be allowed for each Run...... and will dutifully SHUT-OFF the Gas when that B&B TIME has been reached. Following an SOP like this results in sufficient H2O in the Boiler to prevent or avoid the risk of "running dry"; and adequately long, satisfactory "Run Times" are also achieved. From this basic data, adjustments in "Finesse" can be easily monitored as both Train Loads and/or Speeds may be increased. I believe developing a Safe "SOP" for each Loco is of utmost importance, especially for the typically unpredictable Accucraft line of Locomotives..... each steamer to his own devices!
"Vaporo In Fraternitate!" -- Ken Scheer
 
Discussion starter · #38 ·
My health continues to be a challenge, spent the last week with a flu and not recovering quickly.

I’m eager to get home and have my first live steam with the Ruby.

I was hoping someone could point me in the right direction to shop for the following items:

- an appropriately scale sized headlight and mounting hardware

- a bell

And what are my options for different smoke stacks? I favor the ones that get really thick and wide at the top and look like a diamond or a funnel.
 
Discussion starter · #39 · (Edited)
Had my fist live steam today! Thank you all for your guidance in bringing me this far!!

I would have LOVED to had this initial startup at the nearest club track, but I have no idea when I can get back over there and I could not resist proceeding. I set up the rollers on a level bench outside and went for it.

It took me a couple attempts to figure out how to pull the flame back to the burner and I regrettably did put a little color/ scorch to the insulation but nominal.

I recognize the startup is messy with lots of spatter and condensation. I pushed through and built pressure but did have some questions. As pressure builds and steam turns to condensation, I could see several joints where steam was visible. Specifically, I noticed steam escaping around the valves and the valve gaskets, and also noticed a leak at high pressure where the pressure gauge screws in. Should I wrench these areas down tighter, or is a little leak part of normal operations?

I only ran for about 10 minutes including the warmup, just wanted to check everything was okay and all is well! I will try to post up a brief video later.

Unfortunately, I did discover one issue after cooldown. My bell around the safety valve was WAY too tight and I cannot get it to unscrew. I will throw on some gloves and try again during a steam, once it heats up a bit. I wish I could torch the bell without ruining the paint.
 
Discussion starter · #40 ·
I had a great run on the rollers again tonight. It is running so smooth in Forward and better than expected in Reverse. Reverse is still smooth, but there is a little more rock in the motion.

Including the warmup, I ran for about 15+ minutes. I only pulled less than 15 mL of water out of the tank, so I presume I need to start being mindful of running past 15 minutes so not to run dry.


What is a proper shut down procedure?
If storing for any amount of time, overnight or long term, should the throttle be closed or left open?

Is it wrong to leave Ruby with a full tank of water, oil topped off and ready-to-run at all times?
 
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