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Super Modulator
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Discussion Starter #1
First: I had to choose where this thread went. The New Aristo "Train Engineer Revolution" is NOT battery power!

It's an on-board system that draws power from the tracks and receives digital radio signals.


So not battery and digital made me think this thread belongs on the digital control thread, not the battery thread.


I have to say the "45 Great reasons" that I will love the new Aristo TE system, were interesting, some very good points, some questionable, and some of them had me rolling on the floor laughing.


I have a degree in Physics, so when I read: "The speed of the R/F (radio/frequency) transmission is several hundreds of times faster than the speed of a carrier signal through a track system"

(which I interpret saying radio waves in the air are faster than electrical signals in metal) .... I have to take exception, both move at the speed of light.

Of course if you interpret it that just because the carrier frequency is 2.4 GHz that makes the speed of the commands faster than DCC.... well, you need to look at the REAL speed of the command, the actual data, not the raw "bit rate"... this is of course way over the head of most people, but most cases, you will see that a command is either repeated or has a lot of extra overhead, because ANY wireless interface has more errors than a WIRED one.


(Your 100 base T Ethernet cable moves data over 4 times as fast as your "100 megabit wireless N system" because there has to be so much extra error correction "in the air".

Anyway, back to reality


The new system is coming, and information has been given out to many, so what do you think of this new system?

(for example that it has no interface to a sound system, like AirWire)


Regards, Greg
 

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RE: What's your "take" on the new Aristo system?

Hi Greg.

Where can one find the "specifications"?
 

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This system sounds like its behind the times. Already outdated and not even here yet. Still no match for what is available now. Later RJD
 

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Super Modulator
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Discussion Starter #4
RE: What's your "take" on the new Aristo system?

There has been quite a bit of information divulged on the Aristo forum if you read all over the place, it's not concentrated. The latest "insider" has more details. Perhaps you have a copy, or a friend does?

There is not "specification sheet", but by reading these 45 reasons you could derive most of them.

Regards, Greg
 

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RE: What's your "take" on the new Aristo system?

Thanks anyway.

A pdf copy has just arrived.
 

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Super Modulator
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Discussion Starter #6
RE: What's your "take" on the new Aristo system?

What a coincidence, the email gods must be smiling.

Regards, Greg
 

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RE: What's your "take" on the new Aristo system?

Tony, You mean your not a member of the AC club??
Thats funny, during Lewis talk (friday evening at MWLSTS) about the new system it was directed to battery folks.

Reason #2.
Like the 5470 was built for track power but used by batt on board.
 

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Having had time to glance through the 45 items it would be inappropriate for me to comment about a competitors products.

However I will comment about what appears to me to be an attempt to rewrite history.

Herewith: "42. This is the future direction for Aristo-Craft and this system will get our full support for the future of our company. Our last train engineer was conceived and produced more than 20 years ago and technology has changed and so now have we."

As the AristoCraft® Train Engineer® never appeared until at least 2 years after I released my RCS walkaround R/C system in 1992, it could hardly have been produced 20 years ago.
In fact at the 1992 Nuremberg Toy Fair, having become enthused with my first production units his European agents had on an operating display, Mr Polk offered to make the RCS system for me.
I declined his offer.
It was not until later that AristoCraft announced the Train Engineer®.
 

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Posted By Greg Elmassian on 11/01/2008 4:30 PM

The new system is coming, and information has been given out to many, so what do you think of this new system?

(for example that it has no interface to a sound system, like AirWire)


Regards, Greg



Well, I guess I'm not among the many, so I don't have a clue what we are talking about, other than the vaporware product from Aristo. When I here that someone actually has one and has some results to report, I guess I'll pay more attention. No interface to a sound system? Does that mean that now the only acceptable way to interface to a sound system is through what has proven to be (to me anyway) an unreliable DCC bus? I really don't need the capability to flush the toilet in the next to last passenger car by pressing a button. Bell and whistle is all I need.

(I also happen to have a new R/C system coming: it doesn't need GHZ for reliable operation, it won't cost an arm and a leg, and it will incorporate features no other R/C system has.)
 

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RE: What's your "take" on the new Aristo system?

Ah, here we go again with not only copying and claiming he invented but re-writing history.
We've been here before.

Why do you think a certain person announces stuff long before they see the light of day, if at all?

So he can point back to an "announcement" date to PROVE he was first.

GG1?
 

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RE: What's your "take" on the new Aristo system?

Tony, it's obvious you haven't yet learned Polk-speak. My favourite was his line about their first live steam effort--apparently it had 'thousands' (sorry I forget his exact number but it was the live-steam equivalent of a lifetime) of hours of testing. Uh huh, yup...riiiiggghhttt. I could tell. Runner up to that classic was the one about the new gear boxes that were like fine jewels. I love it.

Keith
 

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RE: What's your "take" on the new Aristo system?

I read the pdf file but I didn't see anything about the unit being able to transmit 2-way. It would be nice if the loco could report back things such as speed or location. It would pretty much beat out transponding.

Anyone know anything on this?
 

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RE: What's your "take" on the new Aristo system?

Hey Keith.

Then there was the loco that would just "sip" power.
 

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RE: What's your "take" on the new Aristo system?

Ha ha! I'd forgotten that one Tony. Funny how those very same power-sipping locos now are described as power-hungry arc-causing behemoths that have made this new battery control system the only way to find garden railway nirvana.

I guess my history prof was right....history really is just an interpretation.

Keith
 

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Super Modulator
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Discussion Starter #15
RE: What's your "take" on the new Aristo system?

There is no two way as far as I can determine, it would be difficult, since 2 way transmission requires lower power levels.

The receiver has outputs for horn and bell, good step forward.

I was surprised to see that track power was mentioned first, and battery as an alternative after all the battery talk lately on the site. After the tirades about dirty track and dirty wheels, I would think battery should be the focus.

In any case it works on both.

To be nit-picky, reasons 6, 16, 21, 22, and 45 all seem to be saying the same thing, and the backlit screen is in "twice" 21 and 28.

The obvious jabs at DCC are pretty funny, especially about the "miles of wire". I think the person that made that observation has no clue about DCC. He must have visited an HO layout and thought all the wire went to the track, as opposed to signaling or switch machines. On my DCC layout, the switch machines and power for the decoder are drawn from the track close to where the actual switches are. I only have track feeders, and even these are short. I can run the entire layout with 2 wires to the track, but, like any track powered layout that runs close to 10 amps of locos, it needs multiple feeders, every 30 to 40 feet.

I would say that my NCE system has all the same attributes, a 2 line display, and english prompts for what to do next. It has 4 dedicated buttons for setting up and breaking down consists, so it's very simple. It also has dedicated buttons for all the sounds I use with my QSI, so it's very easy to use.

It sounds like a leap ahead in terms of convenience, and consisting is the big step ahead I see.

I would encourage Aristo to produce this with 999 loco capability, not 99. There is a reason for this: to make a system simple, you want to make it easy to know the loco number, so if you only have 2 digits, then you would probably pick the last 2 digits of the loco road number, or the first two. With only 2 digits, the chances of locos with "duplicate" numbers is much greater than with 3 digits.

In DCC, with 4 digits, you can almost always use the road number as the loco number with no conversion. Memory chips are cheap nowadays, so I would encourage Aristo to make this available out of the gate.

Regards, Greg
 

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I didn't get the email, but it's really hard for me to see what Aristo is going for here. I use track power, at fixed voltage, and a combination of the TE 75 mhz and QSI/Airwre. What's it going to do that QSI and airwire doesn't do? Why make a decoder/transmitter with no sound, when you can buy one with high quality built in sound?

Also frankly I'm suspicious of Aristo on this. The 75 mhz system works very well, but they discontinued it, and there's no way I'm investing money in a new Aristo system
 

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RE: What's your "take" on the new Aristo system?

I am interested in what the pricing will be.

Since I only have 2 75 mhz transmitters and receivers (one is the hote), the 3 amp will be sold with a relay card and I will move on to the next generation if pricing is good.
HOTE is in a LGB rail truck and fits perfectly in the tool box.
 

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I think that there's better systems out now.

Maybe Aristo should stick with eggliners & 'lil critters.

Be kinda nice if they could "deliver" the coaling tower but I suppose that it's under rigorous testing somewhere in the Joisey swamps!!
 

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It certainly sounds like a step forward, and may sell well if the price is reasonable. Aristo-Craft has already established a large customer base because historically their R/C products were less expensive and easier to find. I will add a little more on that later.

The 27 MHz Train Engineer is reasonably priced and easy to use. That is why it has been used extensively and almost exclusively in power cars by our club members since 1995. It performed as expected and proved to be very reliable.

The 75 MHz receiver, although reasonably priced, did not perform as expected unless it was used in a tender or trailing dummy unit. That kind of defeats its purpose as an on-board, Plug and Play receiver. The accessory controller was seldom stocked by dealers here and was rather pricey to order in. I finally got my 75 MHz receivers to work on-board by using the advice provided here and building my own Super Socket with RFI suppression components. But most people either don’t have the skills to do that, or couldn’t be bothered gutting a locomotive and building their own electronics, as they are looking for something that is truly Plug and Play. I spent so much time and effort on solving the radio range problem; I never got around to installing my Phoenix 2K2 sound board which I have had for years.

Considering the number of well tested and reasonably priced R/C and DCC products available today, Aristo-Craft is entering a much more competitive market than when the 75 MHz system was introduced. The Internet has now made every manufacturer’s products widely advertised, readily available and competitively priced. It is now cheaper for me to buy a 900 MHz AirWire transmitter, a QSI receiver, and a QSI Plug and Play DCC decoder with sound than an Aristo-Craft 75 MHz system, accessory controller and separate sound board. After purchasing the transmitter, buying the QSI receiver and decoder with sound is almost as cheap as most sound boards alone. Without sound, I personally feel that the new Revolution receiver will not be competitive.
 

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RE: What's your "take" on the new Aristo system?

Great observations Greg.

The letter sent out mentioned a lot about attraction to the hobby. I'm only 24 years old and from what I can gather, I'm on the younger side of those in the hobby. On the plus side I will one day be older and perhaps can provide some insight into what people my age might want in a system in the future. I'm not all convinced battery is such a great thing (certainly not bad though) and it seems to me that two-way communication would provide so much more expansion. In fact, one of the only reasons I like DCC is because of its ability to do transponding...at least with Digitrax...which can create automation and interaction with the computer.

On the other side, this isn't exactly a bad idea for Aristo but it is also not unique. RC cars and airplanes have had this tech for years..well, for the most part. I guess it is about time someone stepped up to the plate.

Those are just some of my thoughts. I might post something on aristo's forums with a little more detail.
 
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