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2,615 Posts
Vicki Pollard from "Little Britain" says it best.
Yeh but!!! No but!!! Yeh but!!! No but!!!
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Yeh but!!! No but!!! Yeh but!!! No but!!!
What does an engine "need" in it?
21 - 40 of 70 Posts
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487 Posts
I anxious to try the AirWire transmitter, QSI Gwire receiver and QSI Aristo-Magnum decoder with sound because it is Plug and Play and I can use it with battery power. But track power; no thank you! Been there, done that, and didn’t enjoy it all.
I had a large scale track powered layout in the basement almost twenty years ago. Slow moving locomotives would falter or stall on the points when switching. Switched to battery power and never had a problem since running at any speed, over anything inside or out, on brass or aluminum track.
I had a dead flat On30 layout with Digitrax DCC for two years and had the same problem even with nickel-silver track. Changed the 30 switch throws to Tortoise switch machines and powered frogs at great expense, and it was only good for a while. Within a year there spots on the layout where the locomotive would stall even on straight track and always in place you couldn’t reach with the track cleaning eraser.
I have operated on a lots of Lilliputian scale layouts with track power and DCC. It’s always the same. When a locomotive would stall in a switch, BEEP! BEEP! the base station would shut the whole layout down stranding everyone. If you stopped on a switch and changed directions, BEEP! BEEP! the base station would shut the whole layout down stranding everyone. DErail a lococomotive or car, BEEP! BEEP! the base station would shut the whole layout down stranding everyone BEEP! BEEP! track powered DCC.
When you mentioned there are two things you have to know about DCC, I though to myself yes, how much do I ask for this piece of BEEP BEEP, and where do I find a sucker to buy it. The Lilliputian scales have to put up with it because they can’t run battery power, but we don’t.
I had a large scale track powered layout in the basement almost twenty years ago. Slow moving locomotives would falter or stall on the points when switching. Switched to battery power and never had a problem since running at any speed, over anything inside or out, on brass or aluminum track.
I had a dead flat On30 layout with Digitrax DCC for two years and had the same problem even with nickel-silver track. Changed the 30 switch throws to Tortoise switch machines and powered frogs at great expense, and it was only good for a while. Within a year there spots on the layout where the locomotive would stall even on straight track and always in place you couldn’t reach with the track cleaning eraser.
I have operated on a lots of Lilliputian scale layouts with track power and DCC. It’s always the same. When a locomotive would stall in a switch, BEEP! BEEP! the base station would shut the whole layout down stranding everyone. If you stopped on a switch and changed directions, BEEP! BEEP! the base station would shut the whole layout down stranding everyone. DErail a lococomotive or car, BEEP! BEEP! the base station would shut the whole layout down stranding everyone BEEP! BEEP! track powered DCC.
When you mentioned there are two things you have to know about DCC, I though to myself yes, how much do I ask for this piece of BEEP BEEP, and where do I find a sucker to buy it. The Lilliputian scales have to put up with it because they can’t run battery power, but we don’t.
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744 Posts
RE: What does an engine "need" in it?
Just motors would be fine. The smoke looks fake to me as do the leds (in steamers). But they can go ahead and leave all that stuff in. I tear it out and sell it on evil bay to people who burn theirs up
Just motors would be fine. The smoke looks fake to me as do the leds (in steamers). But they can go ahead and leave all that stuff in. I tear it out and sell it on evil bay to people who burn theirs up
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6,058 Posts
Posted By Semper Vaporo on 01/06/2009 9:23 PM
An "Engine", a "proper engine" needs a pressure vessel full of water and a goodly fire beneath it to turn that water to steam. THAT is what an Engine "NEEDS" in it!
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Amen!!!!!!!
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An "Engine", a "proper engine" needs a pressure vessel full of water and a goodly fire beneath it to turn that water to steam. THAT is what an Engine "NEEDS" in it!
Amen!!!!!!!
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22,870 Posts
RE: What does an engine "need" in it?
Paul, I see you do not like track power or DCC.
I do, and I DO "have it all" from your own wish list, it was an hinest, objective response.
I'm not knocking battery, just that I have a solution that fits your "have it all" list in terms of functionality.
So, keeping this on a "what are the features I want" level is good.
You knocking DCC (which you did), and me knocking battery (which I am not doing) is not really helpful, don't you think?
I just saw the latest pot-shot Lewis took at DCC, where Aristo is doing "cruise control" and it will be better than BEMF that the DCC people use.
Let's stay out of these wars. I promise to do my best.
Regards,
Greg
So, you want to "have it all" AND be battery. OK.
I'm content to just "have it all" .... ha ha...
Paul, I see you do not like track power or DCC.
I do, and I DO "have it all" from your own wish list, it was an hinest, objective response.
I'm not knocking battery, just that I have a solution that fits your "have it all" list in terms of functionality.
So, keeping this on a "what are the features I want" level is good.
You knocking DCC (which you did), and me knocking battery (which I am not doing) is not really helpful, don't you think?
I just saw the latest pot-shot Lewis took at DCC, where Aristo is doing "cruise control" and it will be better than BEMF that the DCC people use.
Let's stay out of these wars. I promise to do my best.
Regards,
Greg
So, you want to "have it all" AND be battery. OK.
I'm content to just "have it all" .... ha ha...
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1,336 Posts
I'm sure some won't like this, but oh well ....
Why can't we just post our opinions without getting chastised for knocking something?
Every thread seems to get turned into a control controversy: "What's best DC/DCC/Battery Power?" And that's OK, because it is often the new guys that pose the question, and they need to hear the arguments at least once or twice. But how many of these new guys are we driving right out of the hobby? If not at least MLS? Can't we just put our opinions on the table and let them lie? Do we have to come back and debate every little detail? The same players debate the same issues every day here ( some may consider me to be an offender also, but I certainly hope not).
Maybe I'm just having a bad day, but personally, I am getting tired of the same old stuff, day in and day out on MLS. (I know ... unsubscribe, don't have to read it, go somewhere else ... but I like this place. It's the best!)
Why can't we just post our opinions without getting chastised for knocking something?
Every thread seems to get turned into a control controversy: "What's best DC/DCC/Battery Power?" And that's OK, because it is often the new guys that pose the question, and they need to hear the arguments at least once or twice. But how many of these new guys are we driving right out of the hobby? If not at least MLS? Can't we just put our opinions on the table and let them lie? Do we have to come back and debate every little detail? The same players debate the same issues every day here ( some may consider me to be an offender also, but I certainly hope not).
Maybe I'm just having a bad day, but personally, I am getting tired of the same old stuff, day in and day out on MLS. (I know ... unsubscribe, don't have to read it, go somewhere else ... but I like this place. It's the best!)
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487 Posts
My apologies gentlemen! I must be getting cranky from too much painting. Fortunately the walls are all done, so now I just have to paint the floors, baseboards and trim. Then I can put my train shop back together.
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22,870 Posts
RE: What does an engine "need" in it?
Del, I want to address what you said:
Why can't we just post our opinions without getting chastised for knocking something?
Your statement strikes me as funny. So, is it ok to knock something? Should I start knocking battery power every time it is brought up. What if my opinion is (which it is not) that battery power is no good at all? Just like Paul's opinion is that track power is no good at all?
Is this fine? I've been chastised for knocking something because I prefered somethig else... so now it's ok to actively knock something because it's my opinion.
Methinks there is not a level of fairness in the "rules"....
All I am asking to give an opinion, without the unnecessary "knock" on the "other side" ... I am really tired of the consistent attack of battery power people on track power.
And, if the goal is to not drive people away from the hobby, I say that you should keep your comments to advantages of "your method" not knocking what is not yours.
Again, I almost always see this as battery people attacking track power. If you are tired of the "battles" maybe you should be advising people not to start the battle.
I'm not shilling for any manufacturer, and I'm not using any free stuff from one.
Regards, Greg
Del, I want to address what you said:
Why can't we just post our opinions without getting chastised for knocking something?
Your statement strikes me as funny. So, is it ok to knock something? Should I start knocking battery power every time it is brought up. What if my opinion is (which it is not) that battery power is no good at all? Just like Paul's opinion is that track power is no good at all?
Is this fine? I've been chastised for knocking something because I prefered somethig else... so now it's ok to actively knock something because it's my opinion.
Methinks there is not a level of fairness in the "rules"....
All I am asking to give an opinion, without the unnecessary "knock" on the "other side" ... I am really tired of the consistent attack of battery power people on track power.
And, if the goal is to not drive people away from the hobby, I say that you should keep your comments to advantages of "your method" not knocking what is not yours.
Again, I almost always see this as battery people attacking track power. If you are tired of the "battles" maybe you should be advising people not to start the battle.
I'm not shilling for any manufacturer, and I'm not using any free stuff from one.
Regards, Greg
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1,336 Posts
Posted By Greg Elmassian on 01/07/2009 4:59 PM
Paul, I see you do not like track power or DCC.
I do, and I DO "have it all" from your own wish list, it was an hinest, objective response.
I'm not knocking battery, just that I have a solution that fits your "have it all" list in terms of functionality.
So, keeping this on a "what are the features I want" level is good.
You knocking DCC (which you did), and me knocking battery (which I am not doing) is not really helpful, don't you think?
I just saw the latest pot-shot Lewis took at DCC, where Aristo is doing "cruise control" and it will be better than BEMF that the DCC people use.
Let's stay out of these wars. I promise to do my best.
Regards,
Greg
So, you want to "have it all" AND be battery. OK.
I'm content to just "have it all" .... ha ha...
Well Greg - Since you asked .... I just see your response to Paul as nothing more than a lecture on how he should express himself on this site. I don't see the title of "Moderator" next to your name, yet you seem to be assuming that role. I found Paul's response very interesting. Not because I am against DCC ( I am not, although I don't use it), just that I had not heard of these types of issues with DCC before. I found it very informative. It was just mentioned on another thread about GR magazine how product comparison can't really be done without retrobution from the advertisers. We can make comparisons here. That is the value of this site!
I guess anytime anyone expresses an opinion on a public forum, they are open for attack, or at least they should be prepared for a response by someone. But I think we could have more open communication if we thought we could just express our opinion here on MLS without having to defend it every time.
And as far as "wars" go, of late, I seem to see every thread on every topic turned into a DCC promotion. If the number of pro DCC posts count in the "war", I think you are certainly winning. Since I do sell a battery power product, I do try to refrain from getting in the middle of these things with nothing more than the mention of an option. You may notice that both mine and Paul's post counters don't have nearly as many digits as yours.
And back on topic ... I would like to see a motor and some lights connected to a terminal strip (screw terminals). Shall we now rehash the whole super socket scenario?
Paul, I see you do not like track power or DCC.
I do, and I DO "have it all" from your own wish list, it was an hinest, objective response.
I'm not knocking battery, just that I have a solution that fits your "have it all" list in terms of functionality.
So, keeping this on a "what are the features I want" level is good.
You knocking DCC (which you did), and me knocking battery (which I am not doing) is not really helpful, don't you think?
I just saw the latest pot-shot Lewis took at DCC, where Aristo is doing "cruise control" and it will be better than BEMF that the DCC people use.
Let's stay out of these wars. I promise to do my best.
Regards,
Greg
So, you want to "have it all" AND be battery. OK.
I'm content to just "have it all" .... ha ha...
Well Greg - Since you asked .... I just see your response to Paul as nothing more than a lecture on how he should express himself on this site. I don't see the title of "Moderator" next to your name, yet you seem to be assuming that role. I found Paul's response very interesting. Not because I am against DCC ( I am not, although I don't use it), just that I had not heard of these types of issues with DCC before. I found it very informative. It was just mentioned on another thread about GR magazine how product comparison can't really be done without retrobution from the advertisers. We can make comparisons here. That is the value of this site!
I guess anytime anyone expresses an opinion on a public forum, they are open for attack, or at least they should be prepared for a response by someone. But I think we could have more open communication if we thought we could just express our opinion here on MLS without having to defend it every time.
And as far as "wars" go, of late, I seem to see every thread on every topic turned into a DCC promotion. If the number of pro DCC posts count in the "war", I think you are certainly winning. Since I do sell a battery power product, I do try to refrain from getting in the middle of these things with nothing more than the mention of an option. You may notice that both mine and Paul's post counters don't have nearly as many digits as yours.
And back on topic ... I would like to see a motor and some lights connected to a terminal strip (screw terminals). Shall we now rehash the whole super socket scenario?
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39 Posts
Semper
We do need cylinders and wheels. My engines have a nice plume out the stack without any electrics and the sound is wonderful when under load.
Bob
We do need cylinders and wheels. My engines have a nice plume out the stack without any electrics and the sound is wonderful when under load.
Bob
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2,814 Posts
RE: What does an engine "need" in it?
a motor that doesn't stall, wheels that don't slip, gears that don't strip, enough pick up points so it doesn't stall on dirty track, and just enough "play" in the suspension that it doesn't pogo stick off the rails going through Aristo turnouts--- Nah, probably too much to ask, especially the last...
a motor that doesn't stall, wheels that don't slip, gears that don't strip, enough pick up points so it doesn't stall on dirty track, and just enough "play" in the suspension that it doesn't pogo stick off the rails going through Aristo turnouts--- Nah, probably too much to ask, especially the last...
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22,870 Posts
RE: What does an engine "need" in it?
A quick note to Del: my point was that I see every thread on every topic turned into a battery power promotion. So if we both feel opposite, maybe everything is even!!!
(although I gave examples)
And I'm not assuming the role of moderator any more than you Del.
Back to more neutral territory: I'm not waging a pro track power war, nor a pro DCC war. I have asked that threads that are really, specifically on track power only issues, like "DC vs DCC" not be invaded by battery proponents just to plug batteries. I promise not to (and please show me where I've done this) invade battery power threads with track power or DCC.
Again, it's needless bickering over what is best. Not all threads are intended to be an open forum on battery vs track.
Please read this carefully, I think you will see it's balanced and fair.
And if you think I'm being unfair in a thread, call me out. No problem. But I will also complain when someone asks about a specific track power only issue and I see Paul's battery car one more time!!!
Regards, Greg
A quick note to Del: my point was that I see every thread on every topic turned into a battery power promotion. So if we both feel opposite, maybe everything is even!!!
(although I gave examples)
And I'm not assuming the role of moderator any more than you Del.
Back to more neutral territory: I'm not waging a pro track power war, nor a pro DCC war. I have asked that threads that are really, specifically on track power only issues, like "DC vs DCC" not be invaded by battery proponents just to plug batteries. I promise not to (and please show me where I've done this) invade battery power threads with track power or DCC.
Again, it's needless bickering over what is best. Not all threads are intended to be an open forum on battery vs track.
Please read this carefully, I think you will see it's balanced and fair.
And if you think I'm being unfair in a thread, call me out. No problem. But I will also complain when someone asks about a specific track power only issue and I see Paul's battery car one more time!!!
Regards, Greg
Joined
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146 Posts
RE: What does an engine "need" in it?
Greg, you want to give it a rest for a while. Marty's orginal topic was how much technology should be included, not what type of technology should be included. There was no mention of R/C vs DCC until you brought it up! After two day and two new postings I thought maybe we could get back to the original topic, but you just do not seem to be able to let it go.
Bill
Greg, you want to give it a rest for a while. Marty's orginal topic was how much technology should be included, not what type of technology should be included. There was no mention of R/C vs DCC until you brought it up! After two day and two new postings I thought maybe we could get back to the original topic, but you just do not seem to be able to let it go.
Bill
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22,870 Posts
Bill, you need to read the thread. This was STARTED by Paul's post:
I had a dead flat On30 layout with Digitrax DCC for two years and had the same problem even with nickel-silver track. Changed the 30 switch throws to Tortoise switch machines and powered frogs at great expense, and it was only good for a while. Within a year there spots on the layout where the locomotive would stall even on straight track and always in place you couldn’t reach with the track cleaning eraser.
I have operated on a lots of Lilliputian scale layouts with track power and DCC. It’s always the same. When a locomotive would stall in a switch, BEEP! BEEP! the base station would shut the whole layout down stranding everyone. If you stopped on a switch and changed directions, BEEP! BEEP! the base station would shut the whole layout down stranding everyone. DErail a lococomotive or car, BEEP! BEEP! the base station would shut the whole layout down stranding everyone BEEP! BEEP! track powered DCC[/b].
When you mentioned there are two things you have to know about DCC[/b], I though to myself yes, how much do I ask for this piece of BEEP BEEP, and where do I find a sucker to buy it. The Lilliputian scales have to put up with it because they can’t run battery power, but we don’t.
I did not start this, I OBJECTED to DCC being brought into a discussion that had nothing to do with track power vs battery.
You need your facts straight... Paul brought negative stuff in about DCC when there was nothing about it in the topic. You obviously did not read the thread, go back 14 posts. That's where it started.
I objected.
Another battery guy objected to me.
Now you tell me I brought it up... you are dead wrong... I'm mad because someone else brought this discussion into a topic that had nothing to do with it. You should read the entire thread before you accuse me of what Paul did.
And it ain't the first time. That's my point.
I'm tired of this endless garbage.. and would have left it alone except for your unwarranted and completely wrong post.
Greg
I had a dead flat On30 layout with Digitrax DCC for two years and had the same problem even with nickel-silver track. Changed the 30 switch throws to Tortoise switch machines and powered frogs at great expense, and it was only good for a while. Within a year there spots on the layout where the locomotive would stall even on straight track and always in place you couldn’t reach with the track cleaning eraser.
I have operated on a lots of Lilliputian scale layouts with track power and DCC. It’s always the same. When a locomotive would stall in a switch, BEEP! BEEP! the base station would shut the whole layout down stranding everyone. If you stopped on a switch and changed directions, BEEP! BEEP! the base station would shut the whole layout down stranding everyone. DErail a lococomotive or car, BEEP! BEEP! the base station would shut the whole layout down stranding everyone BEEP! BEEP! track powered DCC[/b].
When you mentioned there are two things you have to know about DCC[/b], I though to myself yes, how much do I ask for this piece of BEEP BEEP, and where do I find a sucker to buy it. The Lilliputian scales have to put up with it because they can’t run battery power, but we don’t.
I did not start this, I OBJECTED to DCC being brought into a discussion that had nothing to do with track power vs battery.
You need your facts straight... Paul brought negative stuff in about DCC when there was nothing about it in the topic. You obviously did not read the thread, go back 14 posts. That's where it started.
I objected.
Another battery guy objected to me.
Now you tell me I brought it up... you are dead wrong... I'm mad because someone else brought this discussion into a topic that had nothing to do with it. You should read the entire thread before you accuse me of what Paul did.
And it ain't the first time. That's my point.
I'm tired of this endless garbage.. and would have left it alone except for your unwarranted and completely wrong post.
Greg
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133 Posts
It needs a fuel tank, engine, muffler, generator and traction motors !!!
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212 Posts
Wow, Marty, you sure know how to start a controversial thread.
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I would have never have guessed that from our time at the SELSTS last year.
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As for myself and the BBKB RR I want it all sound, smoke, a crappe,r and the whole enchilada. Oh well, isn't it great that we are not all the same and wanted to do the same thing in the same scale with the same power. God Bless this is still America and we have choices today, at least.
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