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· Super Modulator
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RE: What does an engine "need" in it?

Well, for people who just want the basics, you would still want a socket to allow the rest of the people a way to go r/c or DCC or whatever.

Lights, well, most people like the "constant lighting" which is a voltage regulator/supply and lower voltage bulbs/leds...

So, if you look at this "minimum" you have an Aristo loco, almost exactly. Yes, there are separate boards to solder the lights to, that's so you don't have hundreds of wires inside, like a pair for every bulb.

I cannot fault the wiring in Aristo in terms of design. It's actually simple, given directional and "constant" lighting. Give that up and you have either more wires or all track powered lights that are dim 90% of the time.

Regards, Greg
 

· Super Modulator
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22,735 Posts
RE: What does an engine "need" in it?

To reinforce what RJ said and I said, I don't think you can take away the constant lighting circuits, the directional headlights, the switches to turn the lights on and off, the smoke switch, and the motor switch.

That's really all that is in your Aristo locos Marty. I'm assuming you are mostly talking about your Aristo's.

Regards, Greg
 

· Super Modulator
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22,735 Posts
RE: What does an engine "need" in it?

Marty, you might not want the new TE then! It's more complicated with scrolling menus, and programming, and more menus and more buttons!

Can't have more "bells and whistles" without more complexity.

Regards, Greg
 

· Super Modulator
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22,735 Posts
RE: What does an engine "need" in it?

Some people like them, some don't. I have gotten the Aristo ones to work fine, I have a TAS that is even better, and will try an MTH soon. They are kind of fun.

Some people don't like sound, some people love it.

The manufacturers are making locos for everyone, and like cars, keep adding stuff in the hopes it will help sales.

Regards, Greg
 

· Super Modulator
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22,735 Posts
Posted By Paul Norton on 01/06/2009 9:59 PM
I want it all, and I want it now!

  1. - A PnP socket for an R/C receiver or DCC decoder in all the major manufacturer’s locomotives. The only reason I gutted locomotives previously and built my own sockets was because I could not get the promised range out the 75 MHz receiver. That new receiver and decoder appear to have that problem solved.
  2. - A factory mounted speaker and plug-in wiring for a sound board.
  3. - Sound boards that plug in. No need to solder for power, battery charging, triggering sounds, etc.
  4. - Constant intensity, directional, LED lighting. I can live with out the Christmas tree classification lights. White lenses would do fine.
  5. - I don’t smoke, but don’t mind the new A-C unit as it is easy to remove if I need the space.
  6. - A location, fastener, plug, charging plug and switch for an on-board lithium-ion battery pack.
  7. - Plug in MU cables. Nice to have with a brand new locomotive so you can run it with a power car right out of the box. But once the receiver and battery are installed, they could be removed and only used when the battery pack needs re-charging or a trailing battery car is needed to extend run time.
  8. - Receivers and decoders that don’t release magic smoke when you hook them up to USA Trains lighting circuits.


Paul you need to go DCC!!!

Item for item from your list above!!!


  1. I got the PNP for Aristo and USAT and the new bachmanns...
  2. The factory mounted speaker is not always there, but 2 wires from the decoder to the speaker
  3. Sound boards not only plug in, they are part of the PNP decoder, even better
  4. Constant intensity is a given on DCC
  5. Smoke units run from the rails, constant power and no worries about batteries
  6. No holes to drill for charging plugs, fasteners, or switch, because no charging batteries and no batteries period! not even for your sound card.
  7. Don't need mu cables, plenty of power, locos mu with the push of a button
  8. I have 3 USAT decoders that run just fine thank you very much, and they will be in production soon.
So, I want it all, and I have it now!



Greg
 

· Super Modulator
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22,735 Posts
RE: What does an engine "need" in it?

Paul, I see you do not like track power or DCC.

I do, and I DO "have it all" from your own wish list, it was an hinest, objective response.

I'm not knocking battery, just that I have a solution that fits your "have it all" list in terms of functionality.

So, keeping this on a "what are the features I want" level is good.

You knocking DCC (which you did), and me knocking battery (which I am not doing) is not really helpful, don't you think?

I just saw the latest pot-shot Lewis took at DCC, where Aristo is doing "cruise control" and it will be better than BEMF that the DCC people use.

Let's stay out of these wars. I promise to do my best.

Regards,

Greg


So, you want to "have it all" AND be battery. OK.

I'm content to just "have it all" .... ha ha...
 

· Super Modulator
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22,735 Posts
RE: What does an engine "need" in it?

Del, I want to address what you said:

Why can't we just post our opinions without getting chastised for knocking something?

Your statement strikes me as funny. So, is it ok to knock something? Should I start knocking battery power every time it is brought up. What if my opinion is (which it is not) that battery power is no good at all? Just like Paul's opinion is that track power is no good at all?

Is this fine? I've been chastised for knocking something because I prefered somethig else... so now it's ok to actively knock something because it's my opinion.

Methinks there is not a level of fairness in the "rules"....

All I am asking to give an opinion, without the unnecessary "knock" on the "other side" ... I am really tired of the consistent attack of battery power people on track power.

And, if the goal is to not drive people away from the hobby, I say that you should keep your comments to advantages of "your method" not knocking what is not yours.

Again, I almost always see this as battery people attacking track power. If you are tired of the "battles" maybe you should be advising people not to start the battle.

I'm not shilling for any manufacturer, and I'm not using any free stuff from one.

Regards, Greg
 

· Super Modulator
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22,735 Posts
RE: What does an engine "need" in it?

A quick note to Del: my point was that I see every thread on every topic turned into a battery power promotion. So if we both feel opposite, maybe everything is even!!!

(although I gave examples)

And I'm not assuming the role of moderator any more than you Del.

Back to more neutral territory: I'm not waging a pro track power war, nor a pro DCC war. I have asked that threads that are really, specifically on track power only issues, like "DC vs DCC" not be invaded by battery proponents just to plug batteries. I promise not to (and please show me where I've done this) invade battery power threads with track power or DCC.

Again, it's needless bickering over what is best. Not all threads are intended to be an open forum on battery vs track.

Please read this carefully, I think you will see it's balanced and fair.

And if you think I'm being unfair in a thread, call me out. No problem. But I will also complain when someone asks about a specific track power only issue and I see Paul's battery car one more time!!!

Regards, Greg
 

· Super Modulator
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22,735 Posts
Bill, you need to read the thread. This was STARTED by Paul's post:


I had a dead flat On30 layout with Digitrax DCC for two years and had the same problem even with nickel-silver track. Changed the 30 switch throws to Tortoise switch machines and powered frogs at great expense, and it was only good for a while. Within a year there spots on the layout where the locomotive would stall even on straight track and always in place you couldn’t reach with the track cleaning eraser.

I have operated on a lots of Lilliputian scale layouts with track power and DCC. It’s always the same. When a locomotive would stall in a switch, BEEP! BEEP! the base station would shut the whole layout down stranding everyone. If you stopped on a switch and changed directions, BEEP! BEEP! the base station would shut the whole layout down stranding everyone. DErail a lococomotive or car, BEEP! BEEP! the base station would shut the whole layout down stranding everyone BEEP! BEEP! track powered DCC[/b].

When you mentioned there are two things you have to know about DCC[/b], I though to myself yes, how much do I ask for this piece of BEEP BEEP, and where do I find a sucker to buy it. The Lilliputian scales have to put up with it because they can’t run battery power, but we don’t.

I did not start this, I OBJECTED to DCC being brought into a discussion that had nothing to do with track power vs battery.

You need your facts straight... Paul brought negative stuff in about DCC when there was nothing about it in the topic. You obviously did not read the thread, go back 14 posts. That's where it started.


I objected.


Another battery guy objected to me.

Now you tell me I brought it up... you are dead wrong... I'm mad because someone else brought this discussion into a topic that had nothing to do with it. You should read the entire thread before you accuse me of what Paul did.


And it ain't the first time. That's my point.


I'm tired of this endless garbage.. and would have left it alone except for your unwarranted and completely wrong post.


Greg
 

· Super Modulator
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22,735 Posts
RE: What does an engine "need" in it?

Paul, just to set the record straight, I was talking about MYSELF about shilling for anyone (QSI I have been accused of, and NCE too), and also it was about MYSELF about accepting free stuff. I'm sorry I did not do a good job about making sure that you did not take me literally.

Those statements were meant literally... many people think I get free stuff.. the only 2 things I have ever gotten free/accepted were 2 things that do not work, one a grease that destroys plastic, and the other, a power supply that does not work. I did not request either, but I'm not paying the shipping to send them back!

I do not request special discounts, and have refused them when offered. I do not want to be "owing" anyone.


Regards, Greg

p.s. on topic, for track powered locos, I want a good and consistent power pickup system, and no sliders, and I also want "battery" connections that are completely isolated from every wheel.
 

· Super Modulator
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22,735 Posts
RE: What does an engine "need" in it?

Now that is one **** of an idea Marty, it would really work... wonder what would happen to the plating on our wheels? We might REALLY be following prototype practice in wheel maintenance...

You might be buying some of Lewis' $45 stainless steel wheel sets sooner than you thought!

Regards, Greg
 

· Super Modulator
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22,735 Posts
RE: What does an engine "need" in it?

Well, several people have made a fuel powered motor turn a generator, I've seen the videos.

I wonder how fine sand could be to not turn into a powder?

Well, if it can be made, it seems that MTH will do it!

(the traction idea reminds me of the old "magna traction" on my lionel F unit.

Regards, Greg
 
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