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The Lionel large scale line was all over the place. Ever take a look at the trucks on the diesels? Way too big for 1/32 but almost a perfect match for 1/29 even though the bodies were 1/32.
USAT Ore cars
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I think this picture will settle any controversy about the USAT being 1:29 or not.
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The car on the left is a MDC 1:32 model. Notice the proper placement of the trucks, and the tops of the trucks are "inside" the frame rails?
I want to find some real prototype measurements (anyone?) to see if the USAT ore car can be made to look like the prototype.
Regards, Greg
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The car on the left is a MDC 1:32 model. Notice the proper placement of the trucks, and the tops of the trucks are "inside" the frame rails?
I want to find some real prototype measurements (anyone?) to see if the USAT ore car can be made to look like the prototype.
Regards, Greg
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170 Posts
Try this site Greg for prototype dimensions. This hopper has a 100t capacity tho and not be what your after length wise etc but possibly help with the wheel to bolster height which may be standard
Gary
http://www.freightcaramerica.com/Ore-Hopper.htm
http://www.freightcaramerica.com/Ore-Hopper-Drawing.htm
Gary
http://www.freightcaramerica.com/Ore-Hopper.htm
http://www.freightcaramerica.com/Ore-Hopper-Drawing.htm
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522 Posts
It seems quite hard, to my eyes, to relate any of the pictures, model or 1:1 version, to each other.
The 1:1 GN car has a larger capacity than the USAT model and its sides are slab whereas the model has a taper at the top part of the car. The 1.32 MDC, whilst spartan, does seem to resemble the prototype somewhat in body shape more than the USAT one.
I did wonder if they are, in fact, the same thing: is the Colorado USAT model that of a special specification for a mineral line whereas the GN a slightly larger bodied version for a Class 1 railroad. I will be interested in the outcome of this enquiry.
The 1:1 GN car has a larger capacity than the USAT model and its sides are slab whereas the model has a taper at the top part of the car. The 1.32 MDC, whilst spartan, does seem to resemble the prototype somewhat in body shape more than the USAT one.
I did wonder if they are, in fact, the same thing: is the Colorado USAT model that of a special specification for a mineral line whereas the GN a slightly larger bodied version for a Class 1 railroad. I will be interested in the outcome of this enquiry.
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22,086 Posts
The LGB cars seems to be almost the same size, although I do not remember them being as tall.
It would be cool to get the MDC, the USAT, the Lionel, and the LGB in a lineup.
I will at least take measurements so we can compare them if someone else can measure the Lionel and the LGB. Height from railhead and overall length (without couplers and brake wheel).
Regards, Greg
It would be cool to get the MDC, the USAT, the Lionel, and the LGB in a lineup.
I will at least take measurements so we can compare them if someone else can measure the Lionel and the LGB. Height from railhead and overall length (without couplers and brake wheel).
Regards, Greg
Greg:
I have just made some measurements of three different pictures of ore cars. I measured a prototype in the site suggested by Gary Yarde, the USAT train site, and your latest picture showing the MDC and USAT cars. My basic conclusion is that the USAT car is either too short, or too high. It doesn't match up well with the other two cars. I have scaled up all of the measurements to real feet. I assumed that each car was 24 feet in length (real or scale).
Rail top to top of car:
Prototype 11.6'
USAT 13.8'
MDC 11.4'
Bottom of frame to top of rail :
Prototype 2.9'
USAT 3.7'
MDC 2.9'
The area of the rectangle making up the entire side of the car frame:
Prototype 209sq'
USAT 244sq'
MDC 206sq'
I also noticed that in your picture, the MDC car is only 1/16 of an inch shorter (real measurement, not scaled). Those two cars are very similar in length. There isn't a 10% difference in length if one is supposed to be 1:32 and the other 1:29.
My guess is that you would have to lower the car body on the USAT by about 1/3 of an inch to make it compatible with the prototype height above the rail.
I have always thought that the USAT cars didn't look quite right, now I know why. They are most likely too tall for the ore cars used in the Minnesota Iron Ranges.
Hope this helps.
Chuck
I have just made some measurements of three different pictures of ore cars. I measured a prototype in the site suggested by Gary Yarde, the USAT train site, and your latest picture showing the MDC and USAT cars. My basic conclusion is that the USAT car is either too short, or too high. It doesn't match up well with the other two cars. I have scaled up all of the measurements to real feet. I assumed that each car was 24 feet in length (real or scale).
Rail top to top of car:
Prototype 11.6'
USAT 13.8'
MDC 11.4'
Bottom of frame to top of rail :
Prototype 2.9'
USAT 3.7'
MDC 2.9'
The area of the rectangle making up the entire side of the car frame:
Prototype 209sq'
USAT 244sq'
MDC 206sq'
I also noticed that in your picture, the MDC car is only 1/16 of an inch shorter (real measurement, not scaled). Those two cars are very similar in length. There isn't a 10% difference in length if one is supposed to be 1:32 and the other 1:29.
My guess is that you would have to lower the car body on the USAT by about 1/3 of an inch to make it compatible with the prototype height above the rail.
I have always thought that the USAT cars didn't look quite right, now I know why. They are most likely too tall for the ore cars used in the Minnesota Iron Ranges.
Hope this helps.
Chuck
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203 Posts
I have the LGB ore cars, great detail and can be close coupled as a set. Railhead height is 4-3/4" and ore box length is 8-1/2". Kevin Strong reviewed these in the March 2006 Garden Railways. I purchased the set $150 for 4, need to replace plastic wheels though. It would be nice to see all the ore cars in a lineup. Looking forward to running my LGB's outside next spring.
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22,086 Posts
I looked at a picture of the LGB ore cars. I am convinced they are different from the USAT and the MDC. The LGB cars appear to have the proper relationship of the wheels/trucks to the body ends, like the MDC and the height looked better.
Right now, they look like the closest for 1:29. Good price for you! I see them for over $200 on ebay most times for the set of 4. I'd buy them all day at the price you got.
Regards, Greg
Right now, they look like the closest for 1:29. Good price for you! I see them for over $200 on ebay most times for the set of 4. I'd buy them all day at the price you got.
Regards, Greg
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127 Posts
the biggest problem with these cars, is that they are the Michigan style ore cars, and the GN as well as the Missabe (DM&IR) had the Minnesota style ore cars. Note how the model has that nasty platform above the couplers, this is common of the michigan ore cars. these were used by railroads such as the milwaukee, and C&NW. Both roads also had some minnesota style cars twards the 1970's and 1980's, most comming from the DM&IR as they sold off excess rolling stock. a good example of mixed ore cars is on the LS&I.
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4,393 Posts
Minnesota style ore cars.
http://209.85.120.98/viewphoto.php?id=256484&nseq=14
http://209.85.120.98/viewphoto.php?id=226517&nseq=134
http://209.85.120.98/viewphoto.php?id=222666&nseq=170
http://209.85.120.98/viewphoto.php?id=201798&nseq=273
http://209.85.120.98/viewphoto.php?id=194141&nseq=303
http://209.85.120.98/viewphoto.php?id=179920&nseq=361
http://209.85.120.98/viewphoto.php?id=179919&nseq=362
http://209.85.120.98/viewphoto.php?id=160617&nseq=466
http://209.85.120.98/viewphoto.php?id=150374&nseq=525
http://209.85.120.98/viewphoto.php?id=110244&nseq=725
http://209.85.120.98/viewphoto.php?id=256484&nseq=14
http://209.85.120.98/viewphoto.php?id=226517&nseq=134
http://209.85.120.98/viewphoto.php?id=222666&nseq=170
http://209.85.120.98/viewphoto.php?id=201798&nseq=273
http://209.85.120.98/viewphoto.php?id=194141&nseq=303
http://209.85.120.98/viewphoto.php?id=179920&nseq=361
http://209.85.120.98/viewphoto.php?id=179919&nseq=362
http://209.85.120.98/viewphoto.php?id=160617&nseq=466
http://209.85.120.98/viewphoto.php?id=150374&nseq=525
http://209.85.120.98/viewphoto.php?id=110244&nseq=725
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170 Posts
Posted By chuck n on 12/17/2008 7:45 AM
Can someone please post pictures of the Michigan style ore cars that Sean mentioned. I was not aware that there were differences on either side of Lake Superior.
Chuck N
Here's a link to a Walthers HO scale Michigan Style..Ore Car
http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/932-40504
Gary
Can someone please post pictures of the Michigan style ore cars that Sean mentioned. I was not aware that there were differences on either side of Lake Superior.
Chuck N
Here's a link to a Walthers HO scale Michigan Style..Ore Car
http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/932-40504
Gary
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4,626 Posts
Alan
I can't remember the part number but Treeman here on MLS is our local club dealer and he knows which ones I use. I 'd just use the steel wheels that come with the car, they are all USAT parts.
Again, I am just thinking here. I have thought about buying one ore car just to work on. Also with that small of car I'd buy 820 scale couplers to set them closer.
In Gregs photo
![]()
it almost looks like you could cut the spacer thingy off the top of thr truck to lower the car.
I can't remember the part number but Treeman here on MLS is our local club dealer and he knows which ones I use. I 'd just use the steel wheels that come with the car, they are all USAT parts.
Again, I am just thinking here. I have thought about buying one ore car just to work on. Also with that small of car I'd buy 820 scale couplers to set them closer.
In Gregs photo
it almost looks like you could cut the spacer thingy off the top of thr truck to lower the car.
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22,086 Posts
I think you could Marty, I'll try to post some shots of the underside with the trucks off.
Regards, Greg
Regards, Greg
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