USAT GP 38-2 differences

4253 Views 17 Replies 7 Participants Last post by Cheapy 38-2, Jan 28, 2008

Cheapy 38-2

Discussion Starter · Jan 24, 2008

I just purchased a new NS GP 38-2 USA loco and was looking at it and realized something was wrong. I have a PRR GP 38-2 and it has a fan in between the smoke stacks where the NS model does not. I also noticed that the smoke units are very different from the 2 models and there is no speaker lead on the NS loco hanging out of the bottom under the tank...the PRR engine has one...whats the deal? how can this be a true representaion of a gp 38-2 if its missing a fan on top?

1 - 18 of 18 Posts

George Adams

· #2 · Jan 24, 2008

Jason,
There are many variations of GP-38s. It sounds like you are talking about the dynamic brake fan. Some units have dynamic brakes, some don't. Look around at the fallen flags web site or railpictures.net and I am sure you will see a lot of different GPs.

George

George Adams

· #3 · Jan 24, 2008

OK, it still won't let me Edit so......

With:
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=220057&nseq=14

Without:

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=220099&nseq=12

Cheapy 38-2

Discussion Starter · #4 · Jan 24, 2008

I understand there are different GP units but im talking about USA selling 2 units called the same thing but are different. i was wondering why this unit is lacking what my PRR has. if i would have known it was different i would not have bought it. thanks for the links.

George Adams

· #5 · Jan 24, 2008

Jason,
They are the same engine, just one with dynamic brakes, one without. If you go to USA'a website the NS roadname is pictured WITHOUT dynamic brakes. They also have variations on their GP-7s some have top mounted air tanks, some have dynamics and some don't. They also do the same thing on their SD-40s. They are all illustrated on their website.You may be able to get the Dynamic brake blister from them as a spare part. I believe the only locos that come with both included are Aristo's new GP-40s. .

George

Scottychaos

· #6 · Jan 24, 2008

It just depends on the prototype..
both models are GP38-2's..one has dynamic brakes, one doesnt..
both still GP38-2,

what is funny..(well, actually not funny at all! )
Is that USA trains says they offer the NS GP38-2 in three different road names:

5256, 5257, 5258

ALL THREE (prototype engines) have dynamic brakes! /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/pinch.gif

5256 is even a HIGH HOOD with dynamic brakes! not even remotely close.
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=126602&nseq=1

5257 has never worn NS paint..still in CR blue to this day:
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=219478&nseq=0

5258 is at least a low hood, and is in NS paint..but again, it has dynamic brakes.
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=60083&nseq=0

actually, I dont think NS has ANY GP38-2's without dynamic brakes..
It continues to be obvious that USA trains does no research whatsoever... /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/doze.gif
its just as easy to get these things right as it is to get them wrong..
all it takes is 10 seconds with google to get it right.. /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/whistling.gif

Scot

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Cheapy 38-2

Discussion Starter · #7 · Jan 24, 2008

Ahh//i see what your saying..i never realized that the GP 38-2s could be different. i over looked that one. any idea why the smoke gens are different? yeah i have a PRR GP9 that has the dynamic brake which is removable. thanks

Cheapy 38-2

Discussion Starter · #8 · Jan 24, 2008

"It continues to be obvious that USA trains does no research whatsoever...
its just as easy to get these things right as it is to get them wrong..
all it takes is 10 seconds with google to get it right.."

lol! you got that right..if i was a designer i think i could get the differences down on paper a bit easier than they do. like you said..google the engines//another one i know of off hand is the white hand rails on the Conrail engines they sell..never seen a conrail engine with white handrails all the way around. who the heck thought that one up?
" lets see whats the worst possible color we can paint these railings in...." try pink next time.

suleski

· #9 · Jan 25, 2008

Jason - - NS didn't run any GP38-2's with Dynamic Brakes during that era, that's why the USA trains unit is different. They were actually trying to make it prototypical.

I own 3 Gp-38's with Dynamic Brakes and 1 without.

Scott

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Cheapy 38-2

Discussion Starter · #10 · Jan 25, 2008

Posted By suleski on 01/24/2008 7:00 PM
Jason - - NS didn't run any GP38-2's with Dynamic Brakes during that era, that's why the USA trains unit is different. They were actually trying to make it prototypical.

I own 3 Gp-38's with Dynamic Brakes and 1 without.

Scott

that i did not know and would explain it if so.

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Scottychaos

· #11 · Jan 25, 2008

Posted By suleski on 01/24/2008 7:00 PM
Jason - - NS didn't run any GP38-2's with Dynamic Brakes during that era, that's why the USA trains unit is different. They were actually trying to make it prototypical.

During what era?
The GP38-2 was produced 1972-1984.
NS didnt exist until 1982..when GP38-2 production was almost over.
I dont know if NS ever even bought any new..

looking through NS rosters, looks like they have/had two seperate blocks of GP38-2's
The high-hoods, from Southern before the NS merger...all have Dynamic Brakes..
and all the Conrail engines from the 1999 CR split.. the low hoods, also all have Dynamic Brakes.

I took a look through:

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/ns/ns.html

Cant find one single photo of a NS GP38-2 without Dynamic Brakes.

I dont think they existed...

if they did, they were very rare, and certaintly wouldnt represent a "typical" NS GP38-2.

Scot

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suleski

· #12 · Jan 25, 2008

Most came from the old Norfolk & Southern, I think those came from the Southern. I was told this by people who know more about railraods than I ever cared to. I went to the Southern Railway historical site and in the photo gallery they have both GP9's, GP-38's and GP38-2's with and without Dynamic brakes. On the Norfolk & Southern Historical Site they have links to how to model pages. I don't claim to be an expert - far from it.

I guess it depends on which actual engine they measured up when USA Trains was preparing the molds.

Scott

Scottychaos

· #13 · Jan 25, 2008

ah ha!
interesting..thanks Scott.

yes, looks like the "original" Norfolk Southern (a totally different railroad than todays Class-1 Norfolk Southern)
did in fact have a few units without dynamic brakes!

but..they were GP38's...not GP38-2's..
so if USA trains used those units as a guide for their 1/29 scale models, they got the wrong engine.
(there are several external differences between a GP38 and a GP38-2)

Looks like the original NS had seven of these units:
www.rr-fallenflags.org/ns-s/ns-s.html

these seven units became Southern units when SOU absorbed this "first" NS.

lets see if we can track these down..im curious!

this page:
www.norfolksouthernhs.org/history.html

says Southern rebuilt them all with high-hoods!

ok..here we go:
www.geocities.com/lxvrengr/8085.html

yes, technically TODAYS NS had GP38's without dynamic brakes!
there were seven of them..
they had high-hoods.
and they werent even GP38-2's..they were GP38's..

so if USA trains picked those 7 oddball units (high-hood GP38's) as the deciding factor to make their low-hood GP38-DASH 2 the basis for offering them without dynamic brakes,
they picked the worst possible prototypes..

NS had seven high-hood GP38's without dynamic brakes.
as opposed to over 500 (by a rough count) actual GP38-2's WITH dynamic brakes.
so still...not one actual NS GP38-2 without dynamic brakes..
USA trains screwed it up..no way around it.
their NS GP38-2 model should totally have dynamic brakes.

I hate to always bust on USA trains..but they make it too easy..
because I do actually think their models are excellent!
I am actually a big fan of their engines!
great detail, very nicely made..its just the paintschemes that are always messed up.
(and now a major detail like dynamic brakes too)
I should say that I LOVE my Alco PA's! seriously..they are awesome!

and actually my favorite engines I own!
I even gave them their own webpage! gold.mylargescale.com/scottychaos/LVRR_PA.html

but I cant buy their LV GP38-2..because the paintscheme is wrong in every possible detail..
and I mean EVERY detail..there is not one single thing that is correct..
if it werent for that, I would own a trio of them right now..
instead, I will have to someday buy two or three USA GP38-2's (any roadname)
strip the paint, and custom paint them myself in the LV scheme..
basically, from my perspective, they dont have a LV GP38-2...I will have to paint my own.

Scot

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Tom Daly

· #14 · Jan 25, 2008

Hi Jason,
Do not take offense with my comment as it is not meant that way.

You may want to visit your local hobby shop and invest in a "Diesel Spotters Guide" which would help you very much in answering some of your questions regarding, what seems to be your new hobby of "Model Railroading."

That publication has been around for over 30 years it seems.
There have been several volumes done as newer generations of locomotives have been produced.
There is even one volume for Industrial roads.

After over 50yrs in the hobby, I still see one thing -- that there is almost always a prototype for anything in our hobby.

Good Luck
Tom

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Cheapy 38-2

Discussion Starter · #15 · Jan 26, 2008

Well if everyone is taking this thread literally about the differences between protos and why USA chose to build what they build..here is the show stopper. my engine no. 5258 and the 1:1 5258.

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David Hazel

· #16 · Jan 28, 2008

Cheapy,

This is the great thing about our hobby. you can have it anyway you want it.... In your world or your railroad. I certainly agree that USA Trains, Aristo and so on definatley have flaws in there paint schemes,road #s and features but, they all sell to the masses.That are not worried about finer, prototypical details like most of us are on the forum who spend a lot of time on the small details of a locomotive,structures or scenery or what ever your interest maybe in our hobby.

In the case of your paticular NS GP38-2 USA for what ever reason made them without dynamic brakes. It certainly would not be un-prototypical to see a GP38-2 on a class one railroad running without dynamics.

I happen to like the GP38 without dynamics gives the long hood clean lines..!

Doug C

· #17 · Jan 28, 2008

Cheapy... ;

Well great pics and there ya go . . .. now off with the shades and on with a pair of roof mounted revolving flashers

doug c

. . . . . thought i recognized the bridge/site your proto shot was taken at . . . Altoona where you cross over from Steamtown to the mall ! Was there bk in 2004 on my last visit to ECLSTS.

Cheapy 38-2

Discussion Starter · #18 · Jan 28, 2008

Dave i wasnt trying to make a big deal out of this just didnt realize that USA actually would try to make models of the same proto have differences as in real life..and that threw me for a loop. Im all about just havin fun in modeling and the more variety the better.

Doug, just got done doing just that actually..check it out. thanks everyone for the replys

(I just happened to get a shot with both Strobes lite up..they alternate normally at different rates...cool)

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