UP "Giant of the West" - EMD DDA40X Centennial, UP 6936
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The SD60T above uses a SD40-2 truck side frame in the pix!! As it should..but,
Again, what is hidden - a wolf in sheep's clothing here! - is the dual motor truck under discussion.
It works with both a SD40-2 or SD70 truck side frame..
......and coming soon also - a Dash-9 side frame in the works.
Dirk
DMS Ry.
Again, what is hidden - a wolf in sheep's clothing here! - is the dual motor truck under discussion.
It works with both a SD40-2 or SD70 truck side frame..
......and coming soon also - a Dash-9 side frame in the works.
Dirk
DMS Ry.
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3,549 Posts
Harvey, do you have a split personality?!! he,..he..
You could send the body portion down here to help me on My layout sometime!! Give your "Mind" a rest!!
Seems Harvey is located directly North of me in AZ!!! along ways North tho!
I have a 'nother Canadian Buddy - temp. in Texas till retirement, who plays with trains also! He loves the CP and CN stuff, but is building His own Canadian rail system Co., as a interchange rail group working between the CP & CN. WE have an idea where he also ships thru out N. America meat products - Canadian bacon - to major distributors, for redistribution beyond. I will have the S.W. Division warehouse on My layout, and this gives me an excuse to run his equipment on my line here!!! More variety and color here for me to play with also!!! And great added business opportunities also for the layout!
Dirk
DMS Ry.
You could send the body portion down here to help me on My layout sometime!! Give your "Mind" a rest!!
Seems Harvey is located directly North of me in AZ!!! along ways North tho!
I have a 'nother Canadian Buddy - temp. in Texas till retirement, who plays with trains also! He loves the CP and CN stuff, but is building His own Canadian rail system Co., as a interchange rail group working between the CP & CN. WE have an idea where he also ships thru out N. America meat products - Canadian bacon - to major distributors, for redistribution beyond. I will have the S.W. Division warehouse on My layout, and this gives me an excuse to run his equipment on my line here!!! More variety and color here for me to play with also!!! And great added business opportunities also for the layout!
Dirk
DMS Ry.
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429 Posts
Looking Good Dirk! Hmm SD60T i wonder retired SD40T-2 built new tunnel motor SD60T ? that be cool! I STILL holding off UP GTEL8500 the Big monster turbine ! i like finish my monster turbine i can match my little turbine my GTEL4500.
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Bryan, get to work on your Turbines!!! make those puffers RUN!!
The SD60T - was simply a short cut to a mock up for testing my motor blocks for a much more complex build, a nearly all scratch built SD90 Mac. It would have been much longer to get it running,.. just to prove if My idea would work!
IT did - so I have started a scratch frame for a SD90M so far!!
Waiting on a final choice to paint the 60T, and details, let's see - in the family - SP / DRGW or up next UP, or a private road, then theres' RJ Corman, with lots of pretty red tunnels running around today!! and CP has been repainting lots of former SOO stuff, in the SD60 family also. That would be fresh red also!
OH,.. I like RED!!!
Dirk
DMS Ry.
The SD60T - was simply a short cut to a mock up for testing my motor blocks for a much more complex build, a nearly all scratch built SD90 Mac. It would have been much longer to get it running,.. just to prove if My idea would work!
IT did - so I have started a scratch frame for a SD90M so far!!
Waiting on a final choice to paint the 60T, and details, let's see - in the family - SP / DRGW or up next UP, or a private road, then theres' RJ Corman, with lots of pretty red tunnels running around today!! and CP has been repainting lots of former SOO stuff, in the SD60 family also. That would be fresh red also!
OH,.. I like RED!!!
Dirk
DMS Ry.
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1,002 Posts
Is #5676 the one that has the rubber hose? #4279 looks like it would work quite well to and has the added detail of including the pipe bracket. I bet the metal is soft enough that you could bend it slightly to take the stiffness out of it...
Craig
Craig
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1,002 Posts
Humm. My hose I have is ~0.055" with a wall about ~0.015"-0.020" I recall it coming with the glad hands.
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Looks like a good project. Has anyone come up with 3D cad models (.dwf or .dwg) of the 4-axle flexi coil truck that may be scaled up/down in any cad software?
Dirk, looks like some fantastic work you've got going on.
I've been staring at my SD70 sideframes and wondered if they could be altered. Mine are too wide for my trucks. I've put it off as there's too much else to do. I can't get the body's side grills perfect. They're driving me nuts.
I've been staring at my SD70 sideframes and wondered if they could be altered. Mine are too wide for my trucks. I've put it off as there's too much else to do. I can't get the body's side grills perfect. They're driving me nuts.
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George, I am currently unaware of any serious and accurate drawings for a DDA40 loco, which makes building one even more difficult and a big guessing game!! I am forced to rely heavily on lots and lots of photos to compare to while I work on it!!
Joe, Whose SD70 side frames do you have to work with? What's up with the grills - the screens looked great, I was even looking for the roller while gone this weekend!! Post a close up of your work on Your ACe thread OK, & let me look at what you got!! I know about the driving ya nuts part... some comes from learning how to build a loco when it is a new process to learn. Some comes from creating ways to solve a new process not done previously!! And it seems to me there are few modelers to share and draw from to help or learn from each other in G-scale also! So all we can do is reach out and help and work together to complete our models - and have more fun!! Learning on the way...
Dirk - DMS Ry.
Joe, Whose SD70 side frames do you have to work with? What's up with the grills - the screens looked great, I was even looking for the roller while gone this weekend!! Post a close up of your work on Your ACe thread OK, & let me look at what you got!! I know about the driving ya nuts part... some comes from learning how to build a loco when it is a new process to learn. Some comes from creating ways to solve a new process not done previously!! And it seems to me there are few modelers to share and draw from to help or learn from each other in G-scale also! So all we can do is reach out and help and work together to complete our models - and have more fun!! Learning on the way...
Dirk - DMS Ry.
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21,227 Posts
Dirk, just a note on our previous conversation about motor draw.
I re-read the whole thread, I see you are using 2 SD-70 USAT blocks per truck.
You seem concerned you were running 4 motors and needed "more" decoder.
The Aristo SD trucks already have 2 motors each, 4 per loco...
True that the USAT motors have a low impedance (resistance effectively), but the 10 amp QSI will have no problem. I believe even the 6 amp one will be fine.
You should remove any traction tires from the loco. I'd suggest around 15-18 pounds total weight.
Regards, Greg
I re-read the whole thread, I see you are using 2 SD-70 USAT blocks per truck.
You seem concerned you were running 4 motors and needed "more" decoder.
The Aristo SD trucks already have 2 motors each, 4 per loco...
True that the USAT motors have a low impedance (resistance effectively), but the 10 amp QSI will have no problem. I believe even the 6 amp one will be fine.
You should remove any traction tires from the loco. I'd suggest around 15-18 pounds total weight.
Regards, Greg
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3,549 Posts
Ah, finally some one that speaks to my Crazy MinD!! THX Greg!!
What I did was an exercise in... increasing Horse Power, and pulling load increases...
If I could 'double the H.P. - then I should be able to double the load pulled' ( trains cars )
It was a challenge to create more power.. Yes, A/C does have 4 motors per loco, but very different motors, but think this thought, How could one increase the H.P. in an A/C motor block that is full of motors? ... no room left.....
USA motor blocks have room,.. I just had to find it!
My general goal has been to increase the pulling power. This means more power. One can then pull more cars.. I am comfortable pulling 50 cars in a conservative setting and layout with My SD70Mac research loco, My Red one. I figure If I can increase power two fold - that a loco could pull 100 cars instead ...This 'would ' require more decoder current capacity, while I agree with your statements about not using or drawing more current than a stock loco will, pulling the same 50 cars!! But My goal was to pull 100 cars which by nature require a higher amp supply to provide the power. ALL by one loco..
So My intentions where based on results and data collected from the Red SD70, equipped with volt and amp meters that provide real time results while pulling cars on any given layout and compared and related to coupler pulling loads ( draw bar or tractive effort ) for a given train load. I have exceeded 7 Amp. continuous on high grades pulling 70 cars! I have run a 50 car train running a much better 3-5 amp load range, but still reaching 5-6 amp continuous on the same high grades.
This leads My conclusions to see a need for 15 amp minimum for any power boards. Second I am creating a design parameter that gives a safe zone .. I want to run my motors at 50% capacity - the power boards at about 50% capacity... I have matched and balanced my design work so as not to be operating any one component at or near it's maximum load range, but more in the 50-60% range to reduce long term heat build up and prolong component life overall! This lead to a 30-35 amp ESC in the SD60T which has worked well so far.
All while pulling 100 cars all day with one loco...
So I want more decoder for .... more pulling power,... not for the same load !!
Ironically, during the time I have spent on this portion of My project I have come to see results that indicate to me My 'theory' may have been flawed...
I made the assumption that 2x H.P. would pull 2x cars!!
I now see that to do this, I also need 2x the loco weight....! A rather exciting conclusion,
As My red 70 now weighs a hefty 19.5 pounds, it would be impossible to have the same loco weight become 38-40 pounds...!!!!!
Plus there is the run time cut in 1/2 with a given battery pack size, with out consideration given for extra battery power someplace???
It has been a good learning experience, but may not be truly practical in practice. I will keep My running example of the SD60T for further testing and thought, but may not build anymore in that 4 motor family! Still interested in how it runs long term and anything I may have missed to date. Pulling with more power may show something I do not see at this point in time.
As for Matt's loco, it most likely will not be over worked in the end. So board consideration may change, currently Matt is set on the upcoming new board from AirWire, choosing to stay in the same family as His other current loco boards...
Dirk - DMS Ry.
What I did was an exercise in... increasing Horse Power, and pulling load increases...
If I could 'double the H.P. - then I should be able to double the load pulled' ( trains cars )
It was a challenge to create more power.. Yes, A/C does have 4 motors per loco, but very different motors, but think this thought, How could one increase the H.P. in an A/C motor block that is full of motors? ... no room left.....
USA motor blocks have room,.. I just had to find it!
My general goal has been to increase the pulling power. This means more power. One can then pull more cars.. I am comfortable pulling 50 cars in a conservative setting and layout with My SD70Mac research loco, My Red one. I figure If I can increase power two fold - that a loco could pull 100 cars instead ...This 'would ' require more decoder current capacity, while I agree with your statements about not using or drawing more current than a stock loco will, pulling the same 50 cars!! But My goal was to pull 100 cars which by nature require a higher amp supply to provide the power. ALL by one loco..
So My intentions where based on results and data collected from the Red SD70, equipped with volt and amp meters that provide real time results while pulling cars on any given layout and compared and related to coupler pulling loads ( draw bar or tractive effort ) for a given train load. I have exceeded 7 Amp. continuous on high grades pulling 70 cars! I have run a 50 car train running a much better 3-5 amp load range, but still reaching 5-6 amp continuous on the same high grades.
This leads My conclusions to see a need for 15 amp minimum for any power boards. Second I am creating a design parameter that gives a safe zone .. I want to run my motors at 50% capacity - the power boards at about 50% capacity... I have matched and balanced my design work so as not to be operating any one component at or near it's maximum load range, but more in the 50-60% range to reduce long term heat build up and prolong component life overall! This lead to a 30-35 amp ESC in the SD60T which has worked well so far.
All while pulling 100 cars all day with one loco...
So I want more decoder for .... more pulling power,... not for the same load !!
Ironically, during the time I have spent on this portion of My project I have come to see results that indicate to me My 'theory' may have been flawed...
I made the assumption that 2x H.P. would pull 2x cars!!
I now see that to do this, I also need 2x the loco weight....! A rather exciting conclusion,
As My red 70 now weighs a hefty 19.5 pounds, it would be impossible to have the same loco weight become 38-40 pounds...!!!!!
Plus there is the run time cut in 1/2 with a given battery pack size, with out consideration given for extra battery power someplace???
It has been a good learning experience, but may not be truly practical in practice. I will keep My running example of the SD60T for further testing and thought, but may not build anymore in that 4 motor family! Still interested in how it runs long term and anything I may have missed to date. Pulling with more power may show something I do not see at this point in time.
As for Matt's loco, it most likely will not be over worked in the end. So board consideration may change, currently Matt is set on the upcoming new board from AirWire, choosing to stay in the same family as His other current loco boards...
Dirk - DMS Ry.
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21,227 Posts
Based on your goals, and decision to use the USAT motors, I would recommend 2 decoders.... and get the 10 amp ones, and have the fans as the manufacturer recommends.
Yeah, you will also need more weight, of course depending on grades, but I'd be looking in the 20 to 25 pound range.
Oh, so Matt is stuck on the AirWire, too bad ha ha!. That will limit the current output capability. I would expect to fan cool the AirWire board, but you will definitely not be able to "over engineer" the capability with that setup.
Also, look at the AirWire specs carefully... the boards were rated 10 amps but also at 12 volts... i.e. 120 watts... if you are running 18 volts and 10 amps you would be running 180 watts. Remember to check the specs carefully. Several people got "burned" because they thought 10 amps was 10 amps no matter what the voltage.
I do believe that there's enough output on the receiver that a single receiver could power 2 QSI boards.Then you should be able to run 20 amps max, and 14 amps all day.
Too bad, he'll miss all the really cool stuff the QSI can do over whatever sound only decoder he will use with the AirWire drop in.
Greg
Yeah, you will also need more weight, of course depending on grades, but I'd be looking in the 20 to 25 pound range.
Oh, so Matt is stuck on the AirWire, too bad ha ha!. That will limit the current output capability. I would expect to fan cool the AirWire board, but you will definitely not be able to "over engineer" the capability with that setup.
Also, look at the AirWire specs carefully... the boards were rated 10 amps but also at 12 volts... i.e. 120 watts... if you are running 18 volts and 10 amps you would be running 180 watts. Remember to check the specs carefully. Several people got "burned" because they thought 10 amps was 10 amps no matter what the voltage.
I do believe that there's enough output on the receiver that a single receiver could power 2 QSI boards.Then you should be able to run 20 amps max, and 14 amps all day.
Too bad, he'll miss all the really cool stuff the QSI can do over whatever sound only decoder he will use with the AirWire drop in.
Greg
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3,549 Posts
We were also discussing radio range,...!
While the QSI format looks very interesting even to Me, I do have unusual needs for my equipment here...
I really want to have reliable ranges in the 250- 300 ft range..
Why I am using old air/craft radios and looking at the 2.4 stuff, again for aircraft
While the QSI format looks very interesting even to Me, I do have unusual needs for my equipment here...
I really want to have reliable ranges in the 250- 300 ft range..
Why I am using old air/craft radios and looking at the 2.4 stuff, again for aircraft
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