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Track buckling

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#21 ·
OK, I get it, everything moves....I think that what most of us try to do is limit the "damage" or control the movement so it doesn't cause problems...like derailments. My personal observation has been that most movement occurs in some isolated portions of the layout and the rest of it (either because of shading, the right amount of gapping, firmness of the track bed, etc.) stays pretty much like you built it to begin with. So I concentrate my efforts to those few areas that have a problem and let the rest do its thing. Hope poor Ken has been able to fix the area of his layout that is giving him fits.... Ed
 
#23 ·
You can't secure the ties to the roadbed and also screw the rail to the ties. Something has to be able to move when temps change. The prototype uses tie plates and the rail is able to move on the ties when it expands and contracts. You can used the clamps if you don't tighten them completely so the rail can move. If you are using the Aristo rail that is screwed to the ties then you have to let the complete track structure move which case you can clamp or screw the joints together which is why a lot of modelers let their track 'float'. I don't use track power so I use rail joiners most of the time and I use Llagas creek track so the rail is able to move on the ties. I secure my ties to the roadbed structure which is the PVC stuff that split jaw sells. If you use track power then you have a diff problem. I do use the clamps on broad curves where there is a joint in the middle of the curve. It gets hot here in Houston in the summer and the ground also expands and shrinks so I do periodically have to adjust the track to avoid kinks by cutting out a piece or if the ground moves I sometimes have to insert a plug. One thing I don't see mentioned is if you are using joiners and having difficulty with electrical continuity then solder a jumper wire across the joint. This works in any gauge.
 
#24 ·
Posted By jfrank on 10 Apr 2013 02:42 PM
One thing I don't see mentioned is if you are using joiners and having difficulty with electrical continuity then solder a jumper wire across the joint. This works in any gauge.

"This is why the old-timers in this hobby used jumper wires between joints with a loop of wire to allow for expansion and contraction AND still have a good connection."

BINGO!! This is part of my quote from the eighth post waaaay back. Must have been missed, I guess.
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Too many agendas I believe. BOTH battery AND trackpower trying to avoid the inevitable confrontation. I'm very sure someone will "pop" in here and say nothing was ever mentioned in the original post about trackpower vs. battery power. But connections between rails can be a contributing factor here to buckling. You HAVE to have good connections to have conductivity through rail. If you don't have some movement for contraction and expansion, track WILL buckle. I NEVER had a buckling problem in my first layout, floating on gravel. I always had gaps between joints. But I never wanted to go to the trouble to solder jumpers between joints. AND eventually I had terrible conductivity and my interest in garden railroading waned and I left the hobby. What brought me back? Wireless and battery. NOT an agenda, just what motivated ME. Mileage may vary. JMHO.
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#25 ·
The rail join is the weak link in track power. That is why I used two different screw techniques to hold my track together. I never had any conductivity problems using the screws. Likewise with rail clamps. I've been using track power for almost thirty years. It meets my needs and I like it. I realize that there are members of this forum who don't like it and don't use it. That's fine. If we all did the same thing it would be very boring and we wouldn't need MY LAGRE SCALE. Chuck
 
#26 ·
Ignorance is bliss. I didn't know any better and my way worked. I am mechanically inclined and know how to work an Allen wrench. Knew enough to get ball ended Allens to run them in and then the short leg to torq down tight. Brand new track, joiners and screws, assembled dry. 20' x 30' tri-oval. One power feed, 20 ga. wire and Aristo's Orange TE radio controlled track power. Ran fine several years until I wore out the TE, then used the Ultima through same leads for a couple more years.
Yes there are slots, they don't cause slippage, they allow for assembly, get it started and then pull the track together, eyeball alignment and tighten. Well that's the way I used them. No there isn't seperation. I do see where I forget them ...

I'm not wishing to be argementative, but the gap would only cover the metal from the screw to the close end of the rail. How much will 3/16" rail expand? How much will 3/16" of rail joiner expand? Why don't they just stay together there?

I learned here to look for that seperation, but honestly no kinks and no gaps.

I'm sorry you aren't as lucky as me then.

John
 
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#28 ·
Nice idea, about $9.21 each in quantities of 50 not counting shipping and duty.

Built right thought, SS plate, SS screws keeping the mount down to the plate so ballast does not work in.

hard to build on your own though.

Greg
 
#29 ·
Posted By Greg Elmassian on 13 Apr 2013 03:46 PM
Nice idea, about $9.21 each in quantities of 50 not counting shipping and duty.

Built right thought, SS plate, SS screws keeping the mount down to the plate so ballast does not work in.

hard to build on your own though.

Greg

Greg, Sorry, thought you would get more out of it.
 
#30 ·
Yes, "nice idea", "built right"... did not elaborate, but I'm sure it works pretty well... basically guaranteeing that expansion is "shared" by all the mount points.

Your layout would have the track in the same place for years. But if you free-float your track, it might migrate a bit over the years, but pretty much act the same for a lot less money.

One thing that seems pretty universal is that with the high cost of track, adding these would be prohibitive for most people. It's also a lot more work, since your roadbed needs to have some objects inside it to secure these to.

I appreciated reading it, but I think very few people would spend the money for it in the current financial climate.

Regards, Greg
 
#31 ·
Interesting but over time it will most likely move also. All track moves no matter how it's secured. If one does his ground lay out corecctley and does as the 1 to1 boys do with ballast. You basically have the same system as what is was mentioned here. As I have said many times and which folks seem to forget is that the screws that hold the rail to the ties act like rail anchors much like for the real RR. Once track is laid fully surfaced lined and ballasted the track is now secure but will in extreme temps move some. As mentioned add Split Jaw expansion joints and all is well. My RR has been down for over 10 years and laid as stated here. Later RJD
 
#32 ·
Chris,

After reviewing the video of the installation on grade, I see no advantage over floating in ballast alone. There does appear to be an advantage for the live steam folks or anyone not wishing to have the layout on grade, but as for expansion it appears to be a lot of cash outlay and effort for not that much to be gained that can't be handled in another fashion.

Neat system tho.

Bob C.
 
#33 ·
I guess I made a mistake when I wrote "...not suggesting anyone buy the stuff"
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I can't imagine what would have been the reaction if I'd written "..don't buy this stuff."
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I did forget some here are ground huggers.
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I'm embarrest.
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I'm elevated in perspective of the live steam persuasion.
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In the future I'll avoid exposing others to what stimulates me.
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#36 ·
Chris, I don't understand your reaction just because nobody embraced this system.... personally I wouldn't trust any system that relies on the ties to maintain rail alignment. I dismissed the system at that point, not you.

Why take it personal?

John
 
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#37 ·
You're right. I had a bad day. My air compress failed in the middle of a framing job. Another delay to the kitchen and my wife was due home in an hour.


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At least he tried to kick you guys around and not me


Don't worry, I'll take care of him next time...

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Chris Scott
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