The large Mason Bogies - from the Masterclass details
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Great work Peter!!
How much weight are you using, and where will it go? I have just cast weights for my Mason, but I am concerned that the huge chunk I have for the firebox is too much.
How much weight are you using, and where will it go? I have just cast weights for my Mason, but I am concerned that the huge chunk I have for the firebox is too much.
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911 Posts
Posted By astrayelmgod on 07 Jul 2011 02:15 PM
Great work Peter!!
How much weight are you using, and where will it go? I have just cast weights for my Mason, but I am concerned that the huge chunk I have for the firebox is too much.
Hi,
Im sorry but I haven't got that far yet!
You say your firebox weight is huge - providing that the screws that hold the two sections of 'u' shaped channel, as per Barry's design are both strong enough and tight enough and won't come loose the firebox is the best place for the weight, as it is the most central. My 2 6 6 Mason has a big chunck of lead there, that virtually fills the firebox upper portion; don't forget that the firebox is in two halves the best one for weight being the one below the tender deck of course?.
The Accucraft loco weighs much more - I don't know what metal they use but its heavy and seems (from picking it up) to be about there. If you are concerned about that area above the tender deck, can it be fitted with extra stiffening inside the 'U' sections perhaps?
The only other places for weight,I think are the boiler backwards from the (vertical) motor, or the front of the tender, with perhaps a variation as being over the top of the pivot for the rear truck. One final place is have you space in the chassis. Below the tender dack could perhaps have some extra, and internalside supports for a plate that holds the weight? It will be a bit of a fight to get it in perhpas,but just possible.
Great work Peter!!
How much weight are you using, and where will it go? I have just cast weights for my Mason, but I am concerned that the huge chunk I have for the firebox is too much.
Hi,
Im sorry but I haven't got that far yet!
You say your firebox weight is huge - providing that the screws that hold the two sections of 'u' shaped channel, as per Barry's design are both strong enough and tight enough and won't come loose the firebox is the best place for the weight, as it is the most central. My 2 6 6 Mason has a big chunck of lead there, that virtually fills the firebox upper portion; don't forget that the firebox is in two halves the best one for weight being the one below the tender deck of course?.
The Accucraft loco weighs much more - I don't know what metal they use but its heavy and seems (from picking it up) to be about there. If you are concerned about that area above the tender deck, can it be fitted with extra stiffening inside the 'U' sections perhaps?
The only other places for weight,I think are the boiler backwards from the (vertical) motor, or the front of the tender, with perhaps a variation as being over the top of the pivot for the rear truck. One final place is have you space in the chassis. Below the tender dack could perhaps have some extra, and internalside supports for a plate that holds the weight? It will be a bit of a fight to get it in perhpas,but just possible.
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371 Posts
Hi Peter --
Sorry, I should have been clearer. The firebox weight I referred to is below the tender deck. I had not thought about inside the upper part. I also have weights made for inside the boiler behind the motor (large), one inside the boiler ahead of the motor (much smalller), and one for between the frame rails under the boiler (tiny).
I should have said that I am using the stainless steel frame, and a Hartland motor. The stainless frame has a steel spine that runs almost all the way down the tender. Fletch said that the BBT motor could handle every bit of weight that I could stuff in there, but the Hartland motor should be about half that. He said not to put any weight inside the tender, but since mine will be full of sound generator and speaker, that is not an issue.
Does your 2-6-6 have weight only in the firebox?
Sorry, I should have been clearer. The firebox weight I referred to is below the tender deck. I had not thought about inside the upper part. I also have weights made for inside the boiler behind the motor (large), one inside the boiler ahead of the motor (much smalller), and one for between the frame rails under the boiler (tiny).
I should have said that I am using the stainless steel frame, and a Hartland motor. The stainless frame has a steel spine that runs almost all the way down the tender. Fletch said that the BBT motor could handle every bit of weight that I could stuff in there, but the Hartland motor should be about half that. He said not to put any weight inside the tender, but since mine will be full of sound generator and speaker, that is not an issue.
Does your 2-6-6 have weight only in the firebox?
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911 Posts
Hi,
Sorry for the delay, but I had to go to Wales for a short while.
My loco weights just over 7lb and the Accucraft one is about 14lb weight. I haven’t taken the Accucraft one apart and do not intend to either, but I can add some more weight to mine.
Here is a photo of the weights as fitted when it was being built, I do not have any in the lower firebox, and could also add a chunk to the front of the tender as well. The curced piece sits inside the upper firebox.
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If any more is added (to the lower firebox) I think there will be a couple of end to end bearers to accept it – it was left empty to possibly add a sound card: that has not been done and if I fit one it will be in the rear of the tender. There is also a bit more in the smokebox/front of boiler as well.
That old bogey ‘hindsight’ is coming to add its bit re the weight!
The 2 8 6 will have some weight fitted before the lower firebox has been added – its made, and fitting will be done in sequence. The firebox is quite large – much more so than the 2 6 6.
Time to go to the garage and get some more of my old lead flashing from the store!
Sorry for the delay, but I had to go to Wales for a short while.
My loco weights just over 7lb and the Accucraft one is about 14lb weight. I haven’t taken the Accucraft one apart and do not intend to either, but I can add some more weight to mine.
Here is a photo of the weights as fitted when it was being built, I do not have any in the lower firebox, and could also add a chunk to the front of the tender as well. The curced piece sits inside the upper firebox.
If any more is added (to the lower firebox) I think there will be a couple of end to end bearers to accept it – it was left empty to possibly add a sound card: that has not been done and if I fit one it will be in the rear of the tender. There is also a bit more in the smokebox/front of boiler as well.
That old bogey ‘hindsight’ is coming to add its bit re the weight!
The 2 8 6 will have some weight fitted before the lower firebox has been added – its made, and fitting will be done in sequence. The firebox is quite large – much more so than the 2 6 6.
Time to go to the garage and get some more of my old lead flashing from the store!
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371 Posts
In the meantime, I wrote to Hartland and heard back from Phil Jensen, and separately from Becky Coates. Phil said that their 4-4-0 wieighs three pounds, and that would be about the right load for the gears. Becky said that their 4-4-0 with brass domes wieghs five pounds, and the Big John (two motors) wieighs eight pounds. At fourteen pounds, I assume the Accucraft has metal gears, but at that price, it had better have the best of everything.
Thanks for your help.
Thanks for your help.
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911 Posts
Hi,
The Accucraft will I think have a gearbox, but it is hidden inside the boiler: ther motor itself is the rear 1/3rd of the boiler, but the final drive to the bogie is by a toothed rubber belt, runningvertically!
Yes, it suprised me as well.
Thanks for the info. from Hartland.
The Accucraft will I think have a gearbox, but it is hidden inside the boiler: ther motor itself is the rear 1/3rd of the boiler, but the final drive to the bogie is by a toothed rubber belt, runningvertically!
Yes, it suprised me as well.
Thanks for the info. from Hartland.
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371 Posts
OK, I weighed the locomotive, and it came to about 5.5 pounds. It was in a cardboard box, so your mileage may vary. But it looks like I don't need any weight at all.
Also, I weighed the lead weights by the displacement method, and that came to ~3.6 pounds. That was for the largest possible weights in the rear boiler and firebox (~1.5 lbs each); and about 1/2 that in the front boiler. The portion of the boiler/firebox inside the cab is large enough for a weight about the same size as the rear boiler.
Also, I weighed the lead weights by the displacement method, and that came to ~3.6 pounds. That was for the largest possible weights in the rear boiler and firebox (~1.5 lbs each); and about 1/2 that in the front boiler. The portion of the boiler/firebox inside the cab is large enough for a weight about the same size as the rear boiler.
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911 Posts
Hi,
Its been quite a time since I said anything about #28 – other things have been getting in the way, demanding attention, and I have been waiting for some extra parts as well.
But now the Walschaerts valve gear has been assembled on the chassis; clearances are, to say the least, tight in several places; I am glad I added 2mm to the width of the cylinders! I still needed to reduce the depth of the bolt head for the front axle to have some clearance there.
Some parts had to be made, David Fletcher provided the drawings, and I had in stock some 1mm thick brass to cut them out from. I still had some difficulties – no doubt as a result of me making things slightly wrong somewhere along the building!
Now some solder is needed to fix the nuts securely and then the excess can be rernoved from the bolts. Barry (of Barry’s Big Trains) kindly provided me with both some extra long bolts, and some of his custom made channel as well – the bolts were needed, and also Rich Schiffman and friends also sent me some – the size is not available here in the UK. The channel will also be needed to allow for the extra axle over the 2 6 6.
The coupling rods are made from K&S brass tube and the rear portion, between axles 3 & 4 has a hinge; axle 4 also has some stiff wire springs for it.
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Everything moves, though some fine tuning is still needed, that requires some assembly of the boiler, running boards and cab - so that I can attach the vertical tubes to the cross shaft (across the top of the boiler) and the Johnson bar back to the cab. Most are made, assembly is the time consuming bit - after the valve gear!
The final rod - from the curved link back to axle 3 looks to be sloping outwards - it isn't the one to the disc on the slider does slope slightly - I reduced that by thickening the rear of it. That kept the vale rod (at the back of it) straight.
Its been quite a time since I said anything about #28 – other things have been getting in the way, demanding attention, and I have been waiting for some extra parts as well.
But now the Walschaerts valve gear has been assembled on the chassis; clearances are, to say the least, tight in several places; I am glad I added 2mm to the width of the cylinders! I still needed to reduce the depth of the bolt head for the front axle to have some clearance there.
Some parts had to be made, David Fletcher provided the drawings, and I had in stock some 1mm thick brass to cut them out from. I still had some difficulties – no doubt as a result of me making things slightly wrong somewhere along the building!
Now some solder is needed to fix the nuts securely and then the excess can be rernoved from the bolts. Barry (of Barry’s Big Trains) kindly provided me with both some extra long bolts, and some of his custom made channel as well – the bolts were needed, and also Rich Schiffman and friends also sent me some – the size is not available here in the UK. The channel will also be needed to allow for the extra axle over the 2 6 6.
The coupling rods are made from K&S brass tube and the rear portion, between axles 3 & 4 has a hinge; axle 4 also has some stiff wire springs for it.
Everything moves, though some fine tuning is still needed, that requires some assembly of the boiler, running boards and cab - so that I can attach the vertical tubes to the cross shaft (across the top of the boiler) and the Johnson bar back to the cab. Most are made, assembly is the time consuming bit - after the valve gear!
The final rod - from the curved link back to axle 3 looks to be sloping outwards - it isn't the one to the disc on the slider does slope slightly - I reduced that by thickening the rear of it. That kept the vale rod (at the back of it) straight.
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911 Posts
Hi,
At last my 2 8 6 has been put together; the valve gear was somewhat complicated to get working OK, I had to make some parts, which meant that the 1mm thick brass I bought a while ago came in very useful. There are a few bits still to add, and some bolts to be soldered tight and the unwanted bits then cut off.
Other things have been getting in the way of loco building as well (including preserving fruit from the garden, which had a very good crop of apples this year). The freezers are now full, and the jam store is also full up!
Back to #28 - I have weighted it with lead with it being fitted inside the three parts of the firebox, inside the cab, below the cab, and at the back of the boiler, so the total weight is 8 pounds or so. The cab is fully fitted and taking a leaf from Jim Barron’s model I have left the cab roof loose so it can all be seen, a couple of photos included below.
David Fletcher will soon (he is rather busy, so his time is in short supply) work his magic with his CAD program and make the masters for the decals, which are to be for the last one of four that were built for the Denver, South Park & Pacific. RR - #28 ‘Denver’.
When those are fitted I will add a final photo or two. Meanwhile, thanks are due to both Barrie of Barry’s Big Trains for the extra bolts and aluminum sections, and also to Allen at Missouri Locomotives Co., for some more bolts – the loco uses ‘4-40’ bolts - that is a size unknown over here in England. They have all been most useful.
David Fletcher, all that time ago (the drawing were made in 2002) must have wondered if it was worth making them after myself and other modelers of the Mason Bogie Masterclass badgered him for a set: they were (understandably) ) not as complete as the 2 6 6 versions, but there has been enough to work with – The outside Walschaerts valve gear is different and it did cause some head scratching, some of it will have been as a result of some minor errors that I think have crept in somewhere but they have been sorted out (I hope).
Some years ago I laid in the extra bits, which have finally been used in this loco, and some more parts made by me at the same time, saving a lot of work. David gets a great BIG ‘Thank You’ for all the work he did on these Mason Bogies. This loco is I think, the only FN3 scale (it started out as G scale but things changed en route) model.
Here in the rainy Northwest of England we have had for the last 5 days or so a weather front off a Low Pressure area sat over us; that means rain; not heavy but persistent, and it really never stopped. Today it finally moved off a bit and we have had both dry weather and some sun; that was sufficient to get out the camera and take some photos of the loco on my track.
Here they are: its time for me to save some words, though there are some extended captions -
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Running round the curve after the 90 degree crossing. The front handrail knobs are scratch built, having a piece of wire for the center, a piece of tube for the 1.5mm handrail, and the the wire bulked out with filler after gluing onto the wire a tiny piece of styrene card to accept a bit of tube for the flagstaff. The flagstaffs themselves which can also fit into the pilot deck locations for them are wire, plastic tube, and an old handkerchief for the flags; the edges of which have been turned over and glued down with clear glue.
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A slightly higher view of the loco
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Down on the ground for the poor photographer (me!) having laid down a large sheet of polythene against the wet lawn) with the loco on my trestle.
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Inside the cab, with twin pull cords for the bell, and a central cord with a 'canvas' (actually its some 'heat shrink' tubing for the crew to grab when the whistle is needed. I found that the straight rod(?) in the builders photo hit the rear sand dome(possibly as a result of me using the Hartland Loco Works Domes - which saved me some work; I think the new curved (wire) rod looks good anyway! It also allows the filler to be taken off the rear sand dome.
I added from fine square wood section the internal framing to the cab from what Jim Barron did with his Mason Bogie Cab: stained and varnished before fitting it in place. The coal load is removable with just the front bit being fixed.
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Fireman's side of the loco
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That photographer is back at ground level again, this time he has some dry paving flags to crouch on. I didn't realize that the boiler water feed pipe had a slope to it - I will have to see if I can 'fix it''.
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Another ground level photo, just before my original 'Pony Truss' bridge.
![]()
And finally both Mason bogies together - products of 'myLargescale.com' Master Classes, and the members of MLS assisting me when necessary.
At last my 2 8 6 has been put together; the valve gear was somewhat complicated to get working OK, I had to make some parts, which meant that the 1mm thick brass I bought a while ago came in very useful. There are a few bits still to add, and some bolts to be soldered tight and the unwanted bits then cut off.
Other things have been getting in the way of loco building as well (including preserving fruit from the garden, which had a very good crop of apples this year). The freezers are now full, and the jam store is also full up!
Back to #28 - I have weighted it with lead with it being fitted inside the three parts of the firebox, inside the cab, below the cab, and at the back of the boiler, so the total weight is 8 pounds or so. The cab is fully fitted and taking a leaf from Jim Barron’s model I have left the cab roof loose so it can all be seen, a couple of photos included below.
David Fletcher will soon (he is rather busy, so his time is in short supply) work his magic with his CAD program and make the masters for the decals, which are to be for the last one of four that were built for the Denver, South Park & Pacific. RR - #28 ‘Denver’.
When those are fitted I will add a final photo or two. Meanwhile, thanks are due to both Barrie of Barry’s Big Trains for the extra bolts and aluminum sections, and also to Allen at Missouri Locomotives Co., for some more bolts – the loco uses ‘4-40’ bolts - that is a size unknown over here in England. They have all been most useful.
David Fletcher, all that time ago (the drawing were made in 2002) must have wondered if it was worth making them after myself and other modelers of the Mason Bogie Masterclass badgered him for a set: they were (understandably) ) not as complete as the 2 6 6 versions, but there has been enough to work with – The outside Walschaerts valve gear is different and it did cause some head scratching, some of it will have been as a result of some minor errors that I think have crept in somewhere but they have been sorted out (I hope).
Some years ago I laid in the extra bits, which have finally been used in this loco, and some more parts made by me at the same time, saving a lot of work. David gets a great BIG ‘Thank You’ for all the work he did on these Mason Bogies. This loco is I think, the only FN3 scale (it started out as G scale but things changed en route) model.
Here in the rainy Northwest of England we have had for the last 5 days or so a weather front off a Low Pressure area sat over us; that means rain; not heavy but persistent, and it really never stopped. Today it finally moved off a bit and we have had both dry weather and some sun; that was sufficient to get out the camera and take some photos of the loco on my track.
Here they are: its time for me to save some words, though there are some extended captions -
Running round the curve after the 90 degree crossing. The front handrail knobs are scratch built, having a piece of wire for the center, a piece of tube for the 1.5mm handrail, and the the wire bulked out with filler after gluing onto the wire a tiny piece of styrene card to accept a bit of tube for the flagstaff. The flagstaffs themselves which can also fit into the pilot deck locations for them are wire, plastic tube, and an old handkerchief for the flags; the edges of which have been turned over and glued down with clear glue.
A slightly higher view of the loco
Down on the ground for the poor photographer (me!) having laid down a large sheet of polythene against the wet lawn) with the loco on my trestle.
Inside the cab, with twin pull cords for the bell, and a central cord with a 'canvas' (actually its some 'heat shrink' tubing for the crew to grab when the whistle is needed. I found that the straight rod(?) in the builders photo hit the rear sand dome(possibly as a result of me using the Hartland Loco Works Domes - which saved me some work; I think the new curved (wire) rod looks good anyway! It also allows the filler to be taken off the rear sand dome.
I added from fine square wood section the internal framing to the cab from what Jim Barron did with his Mason Bogie Cab: stained and varnished before fitting it in place. The coal load is removable with just the front bit being fixed.
Fireman's side of the loco
That photographer is back at ground level again, this time he has some dry paving flags to crouch on. I didn't realize that the boiler water feed pipe had a slope to it - I will have to see if I can 'fix it''.
Another ground level photo, just before my original 'Pony Truss' bridge.
And finally both Mason bogies together - products of 'myLargescale.com' Master Classes, and the members of MLS assisting me when necessary.
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2,195 Posts
Bravo Peter!! She really came out well! Wow, the Denver.... I think that means that, now, there is a representative model of all the different Mason Bogie classes!
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580 Posts
Fantastic Peter. Another fine model. You should be proud to have attempted such a difficult project. Bravo!!!!
Doc
Doc
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225 Posts
Congratulations!
The pair look great.
I hope David Fletcher enjoys them, too.
I run a San Juan live steam and am THRILLED with it.
The pair look great.
I hope David Fletcher enjoys them, too.
I run a San Juan live steam and am THRILLED with it.
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405 Posts
Looks fantastic Pete,
I have the decoration drawn for this engine long ago, but I'll need to size it and set it up for the 2-8-6T. Will have to wait a few weeks I'm afraid.
It'll look sensation with all the gilding.
At least the 2-8-6T drawings didn't go to waste. I did cover the 2-8-6T loco components in all chapters, except the backhead, which would be done like the 2-6-6T.
Many thanks,
David.
I have the decoration drawn for this engine long ago, but I'll need to size it and set it up for the 2-8-6T. Will have to wait a few weeks I'm afraid.
It'll look sensation with all the gilding.
At least the 2-8-6T drawings didn't go to waste. I did cover the 2-8-6T loco components in all chapters, except the backhead, which would be done like the 2-6-6T.
Many thanks,
David.
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1,479 Posts
Congratulations Peter! Fantastic job.It has been a while coming but well worth the effort. I will be looking forward to seeing the decorated final product.
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911 Posts
Hi,
David Fletcher had produced a 4 page PDF set of decal masters for #28, and these were sent to Stan Cedarleaf for printing: both of them excelled themselves in their work ,and I had the complicated job of adding them to my model. The intention is to show the loco 'as delivered' from Wm. Mason's factory - thus it had the Eames vacuum brake system.
After I had my previous work out of the way (the Hotel building) there was a large space cleared for the loco to receive the arguably the most 'important bits' to be added; the decals are certainly the bits that add the most as the decorate in red & gold the dark brown base color.
Having picked up my courage I started and several days later the job is virtually complete. Yesterday the weather was not very good - today, though still cold has had more sun, so it was time to get wrapped up and go outside with the camera, and loco to my photo spot - on the 'small' trestle.
Here are the results - the sun really was to low and a bit bright but I think they are the best I could have managed at this time of year - the sun was fat being lost tho the bulk of the house.
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From the engineer's side tkane low down on the path
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A bit of a slope - sorry about that and the cut off pilot as well!" Decals everywwhere
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Engineer's side again but a 'low down' view - the little white line under the smokebox is a wayward bit of decal backing sheet - which has now been removed!e
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A couple of views of the rear - Two plans of this loco showed a number panel here so I asked David if he could add one into the decal sheet - this is the result; the two fixing brackets on the rear of the tender/bunker wereremoved, the area re-apinted, and new slightly smaller brackets have been made - they still need adding, one of the small list of jobs to be done.
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A final slightly 'out of focus ' view - I have made a number of sets of fireman's tools for my locos - here is #28's they still need a clinkers breakwer to be added - sorry about the duff focusing, this hot was handheld.
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Finally a couple of photos with the loco being the largest Mason Bogie design that the DSP&PRR had should have behind it one of the largest freight cars - the Charcoal cars - they were so big that later they were fitted with standard gauge trucks and disappeared from the Narrow Gauge.
A big Thank You to both David for the superb 'gilding of the lily' (though these were said to be 'Banking engines' for the passes), and equally to Stan for his superb work on the decals.
Enjoy!
David Fletcher had produced a 4 page PDF set of decal masters for #28, and these were sent to Stan Cedarleaf for printing: both of them excelled themselves in their work ,and I had the complicated job of adding them to my model. The intention is to show the loco 'as delivered' from Wm. Mason's factory - thus it had the Eames vacuum brake system.
After I had my previous work out of the way (the Hotel building) there was a large space cleared for the loco to receive the arguably the most 'important bits' to be added; the decals are certainly the bits that add the most as the decorate in red & gold the dark brown base color.
Having picked up my courage I started and several days later the job is virtually complete. Yesterday the weather was not very good - today, though still cold has had more sun, so it was time to get wrapped up and go outside with the camera, and loco to my photo spot - on the 'small' trestle.
Here are the results - the sun really was to low and a bit bright but I think they are the best I could have managed at this time of year - the sun was fat being lost tho the bulk of the house.
From the engineer's side tkane low down on the path
A bit of a slope - sorry about that and the cut off pilot as well!" Decals everywwhere
Engineer's side again but a 'low down' view - the little white line under the smokebox is a wayward bit of decal backing sheet - which has now been removed!e
A couple of views of the rear - Two plans of this loco showed a number panel here so I asked David if he could add one into the decal sheet - this is the result; the two fixing brackets on the rear of the tender/bunker wereremoved, the area re-apinted, and new slightly smaller brackets have been made - they still need adding, one of the small list of jobs to be done.
A final slightly 'out of focus ' view - I have made a number of sets of fireman's tools for my locos - here is #28's they still need a clinkers breakwer to be added - sorry about the duff focusing, this hot was handheld.
Finally a couple of photos with the loco being the largest Mason Bogie design that the DSP&PRR had should have behind it one of the largest freight cars - the Charcoal cars - they were so big that later they were fitted with standard gauge trucks and disappeared from the Narrow Gauge.
A big Thank You to both David for the superb 'gilding of the lily' (though these were said to be 'Banking engines' for the passes), and equally to Stan for his superb work on the decals.
Enjoy!
Joined
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580 Posts
Peter,
Another beautiful job. The decals are fantastic. You work is amazing as always.
Doc
Another beautiful job. The decals are fantastic. You work is amazing as always.
Doc
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