[joe779]

Hello all,

apparently the posts were deleted and the reason in not right. Here is the email I got about the 2 posts.

Joe,

While I can understand where you're coming from on this issue, such comments belong in email, not on the public forums. Posting them publicly will only result in a very public flame war, and that isn't something we need. Besides we don't need another "Accucraft vs. Aster" fiasco... there have been plenty of those already.

Your post and your duplicating cab forward thread have therefore been deleted.


Best Regards,
Dwight Ennis
MLS Moderator








If they can pubically post the article we should be allowed to pubically discuss this article. It is not another Aster vs Accucraft, it was a direct hit to Accucraft and a direct ad for their services in which seems to be shoddy at best. They dont even have the knowhow to fit it themself they had to have someone else fix their Cabfoward for them, and now are advertising their business in a so called "review" that was published in StiG.

As for deleting the post there was nothing that was bad mouthed it was factual and to the point.

Jfrank posted on my reply that due to them, the last run of 40 cabfowards were cancelled. I wonder if Accucraft will sue them for the business of the 280,000.00 worth of sales. 7,000 x 40 locos.

 

[Kovacjr]

Hello Pandora,

Funny that was published and that I was going to do a review on the 4-4-0 but was told that the draft needed to be approved by Accucraft first. Apparently this was not the case here as they would of had some input to it.

It really should of been a article of how Gordon made the modifications and not comparing it to a 20,000 Aster. Don't you always get what you pay for??

I voiced my opinion about the article to Ryan and to Ron. Only time will tell what happens in the future.

 

[Dave -- Use Coal]

Well I wonder how long Dwight Ennis will allow this thread to run. I notice he had no problem with people discussing the Scam artist in our midst .
It seems that it is Accrucraft he gets real touchy about.

There is a lot of interesting and informative information posted on this web site but it appears there could be more.

I also wonder how many more postings that could be of interest have been deleted.

 

[Dave -- Use Coal]

lIt is not clear to me who the "them" is that are refered to in this: Jfrank posted on my reply that due to them, the last run of 40 cabfowards were cancelled. I wonder if Accucraft will sue them for the business of the 280,000.00 worth of sales. 7,000 x 40 locos.
Can you clairify?

 

[Kovacjr]

I had assumed that he along with others including myself have heard that Accucraft cancelled the 2nd batch due to the article in StiG. Of course with the current economic conditions it could be only part of the reason. But we will probally never know as Accucraft will not announce it, just as they didnt announce the build of the 2nd run on their website but through dealers.

From what I heard from another on here, the post that was deleted was very well written and based on actual facts not just a firestorm...

Dwight do we get to see this post? There has been many others that were never deleted why this one? Why now? Whats the point of a public forum thats censored? Should we all go over to Largescalecentral where there is no censorship? They do not have a live steam forum though. Which is why I joined this group many years ago.

 

[jfrank]

Posted By joe779 on 12/29/2008 5:29 AM
Hello all,

apparently the posts were deleted and the reason in not right. Here is the email I got about the 2 posts.

Joe,

While I can understand where you're coming from on this issue, such comments belong in email, not on the public forums. Posting them publicly will only result in a very public flame war, and that isn't something we need. Besides we don't need another "Accucraft vs. Aster" fiasco... there have been plenty of those already.

Your post and your duplicating cab forward thread have therefore been deleted.


Best Regards,
Dwight Ennis
MLS Moderator








If they can pubically post the article we should be allowed to pubically discuss this article. It is not another Aster vs Accucraft, it was a direct hit to Accucraft and a direct ad for their services in which seems to be shoddy at best. They dont even have the knowhow to fit it themself they had to have someone else fix their Cabfoward for them, and now are advertising their business in a so called "review" that was published in StiG.

As for deleting the post there was nothing that was bad mouthed it was factual and to the point.

Jfrank posted on my reply that due to them, the last run of 40 cabfowards were cancelled. I wonder if Accucraft will sue them for the business of the 280,000.00 worth of sales. 7,000 x 40 locos.




Well Joe he sent me the same exact message. Personally, I was not aware that the Bednarik's article had caused the cancellation until later when I heard it from a reliable source. I never heard it mentioned on MLS and I wonder why. When I first saw the article in SIG I was rather suprised that Ron Brown would publish such a biased and misleading review....and I still am. Someone pointed out to me that the last SIG did not have any 'letters to the editor' in it. I wonder why? Dwight certainly has the right to delete contravesrial posts. But on the other hand this information is just factual, not flame throwing and a lot of us pay our dues each year to keep this site going. As you point out....glad I did not have anything to do with costing Accucraft almost $300,000 and also denying many of us the pleasure of owning such a fine locomotive.

 

[David Rose]

I would not accuse Dwight of 'defending' Accucraft if he delete that..... if anything, it seems like the opposite.

I am curious about what the post said of course, but not if Aster vrs. Accucraft gets beaten to death for the 50th time.

 

[Dwight Ennis]

First off, I am on Pacific time and just got up, and what do I see? This, and after I deleted the original after just happening to wake up at 2AM. They (the original two posts) were far more accusatory and personal in tone and wording, and not a discussion of "the article." That would inevitably have lead to a similar angry response (as may this thread), and a topic that would have been locked/deleted anyway.

Second, and as I indicated in my PMs, such personal accusations belong in email, not on the public forums.

Third (and this is for you Dave Young), it had nothing to do with Accucraft being the subject of the post.

Fourth, we don't need another Accucraft vs. Aster debate. We've already had several of those, and so far as I know, no one had had their mind changed by them.

Fifth, our friend Joe779 has never made any posts whatsoever until these two which I deleted, and an email I sent him came back from AOL stating he'd never activated that email account, and my email was undeliverable. There is very little info in the profile. While it may be coincidence, I can't help being suspicious as to motives.

Sixth, when I decide that something needs deleting for the good of the overall community, this is not an invitation to repost it after I've gone back to bed.

Seventh... If they can publicly post the article we should be allowed to publicly discuss this article.
The article wasn't "publicly posted" on MLS. Perhaps you should voice your disapproval in a letter to SitG where it was "publicly posted."

Eighth... I also wonder how many more postings that could be of interest have been deleted.
Very damn few.

Ninth... Whats the point of a public forum thats censored?
This is a privately owned and privately financed web site. All financial contributions via 1st Class Memberships are voluntary, not mandatory. I don't own this web site, I don't get paid or make any money watsoever from it, nor do I make the rules. I and others have been entrusted with the usually thankless task of enforcing the rules laid down by the owner. The first and most important rule is "Courtesy to other members at all times." The deleted posts were not courteous, and were more than a statement of "mere fact." Enforcement of all rules here is not "censorship" despite the occasional cries of same from a few. The rules are publicly posted, and each and every member has to agree to them before they can sign up and post here.

Lastly... apparently the posts were deleted and the reason in not right. Here is the email I got about the 2 posts.
When the site owner asks you to moderate the forums, then you get to decide what's right with the overall good of the forums in mind and not viewed from the confines of an agenda.

If you guys wish to discuss the contents of the article, do so. However (and fair warning), the instant it starts turning personal, it stops. If you wish to call that "censorshp" that's your perrogative.

 

[zephyra]

Dwight, I'm with you - this childish nonsense has no place on this forum. I read some of the vicious and nasty stuff I see on unmoderated forums and I weep for the future of humanity! Thank you for talking on the thankless task of moderating this forum and keeping it sane and useful.

I don't even think the facts are straight - there is a world of difference between cancelling a batch of locomotives versus not placing an order for a second batch because there was insufficient demand and the minimum batch size was 40. I know when I enquired about a Cab Forward after the original batch sold out, I was told the that they would consider a second batch only if there was sufficient demand.

And as the snow has finally cleared and I might make a quiet point to myself by running my Accucraft 50/50 GS4 (modified by Charles and Ryan) followed by my Aster Berkshire and wonder at the simple pleasure of this hobby. Now if I had a dynamometer car I could work out which pulls best as they will both pull all the rolling stock I have

Robert

 

[Bill4373]

let's get a good one going...

which is the best pickup truck? Ford, Dodge, GMC or Chevrolet???

 

[zephyra]

Posted By Bill4373 on 12/29/2008 11:26 AM
let's get a good one going...

which is the best pickup truck? Ford, Dodge, GMC or Chevrolet???



Toyota

 

[jfrank]

Posted By Bill4373 on 12/29/2008 11:26 AM
let's get a good one going...

which is the best pickup truck? Ford, Dodge, GMC or Chevrolet???




Are the Chinese making one yet?

 

[aceinspp]

Chinese are getting ready to crank up car production in Mexico. I'll stick with GM Later RJD

 

[JEFF RUNGE]

John, I have some Chinese baby formula for you... Oh by the way they make cars, you should buy one. I bet they cost less then a Cab Forward....... hehe,

 

[jfrank]

Posted By aceinspp on 12/29/2008 2:02 PM
Chinese are getting ready to crank up car production in Mexico. I'll stick with GM Later RJD


I left GM years ago for this reason.....they never fix anything. Way back in the 1980.s they decided to go with that overdrive transmission in their pick up trucks that was not strong enough. Result, constant transmission failures costing millions. I personally had them fail in all three trucks I bought from 198- to the 1990's. GM trucks come from the factory with the front wheels out of alignment just as normal practice. From my Dad's trucks to all of mine they ate up the first set of tires. My last truck, a GMC Z71 went through three radiators because they had switched to plastic and they cracked. It also lost a transmission and the AC compressor....all under the extended warranty. One truck went through three transmissions all at GM's expense. My last car was a Nissan Pathfinder which I put 150,000 miles on with no problems whatsoever and I never had to have the front end aligned. I now drive an Xterra. No wonder GM is broke. The best thing we can do is let them fail and reorganize. They are just a mess.

 

[Kovacjr]

I have a Silverado now but would not rebuy...I dont even think I'd get another truck, nothing out there that I really like or know is well built. Had an S-10 that ate up the front tires in 10,000 miles.

 

[jfrank]

Posted By JEFF RUNGE on 12/29/2008 4:35 PM
John, I have some Chinese baby formula for you... Oh by the way they make cars, you should buy one. I bet they cost less then a Cab Forward....... hehe,


Well Jeff, we made fun of the Japanese when they first starting making cars. Then we made fun of the Koreans when they started to make cars. The Japs are second to none in quality and the Koreans are catching up fast. We can laugh at the Chinese now if we want, but when they start to import cars there will be no so called domestic car manufacturers left period. And I remind you that no one makes gauge one live steam models in this country either or apparently anything else as we are totally broke as a country with 10 trillion in debt(that is a 10 followed by 12 zeros). By the way, I just got back from a trip to Dresden Germany and guess what I saw running around on the streets.........chevy's and fords. GM and Ford are no more a 'domestic manufacturer' and any other company. This has strayed far off topic from the Bednariks little faux pas but apparently that was the goal....to take the heat off them and cover it all up. See you all at Diamondhead where we can discuss fixing up the world over a couple of beers.

 

[livesteam5629]

Should we all go over to Largescalecentral where there is no censorship? They do not have a live steam forum though. Which is why I joined this group many years ago.

Jay,
Largescalecentral does have a Steam Forum...not very active however.
N

 

[Tom Bowdler]

To stray a bit back on topic,
I have had the pleasure of reviewing two Accucraft locomotives for Steam In the Garden, the C-16 in Issue #62 and the AML 0-6-0 switcher which will appear in the next issue. I also reviewed the Roundhouse Darjeeling loco some issues back. As far as I know none of my writing was ever required to be reviewed by the manufacturer. While writing the R-house review I had some concerns so I contacted the manufacturer and included some of their reply in my article.
Also, I own a 1996 Chev Suburban with 103K miles most of them towing a 7K pound 28' long travel trailer with no problems whatsoever.
Have fun,
Tom

 

[Scottychaos]

I just went and read the review..
honestly I just skimmed it the first time, because its not a loco I would ever be interested in..
but this time I read the whole thing straight through..
My review of the review:
The Bednariks were just being honest..nothing wrong with that.
it wasnt a "slam" against accucraft..sure it was a bit more harsh than most reviews..
but that is only because the locomotive deserved the harshness!

Do we want honest reviews or not?
I recall a bunch of complaints awhile back when some felt a review was far too lenient,
and glossed over major problems..so which way do you want it?

personally I would much rather have honest reviews..if there are problems, we should hear about it!
how many people would complain if the review was all sweetness and light, then people bought the loco and discovered
all these problems that were never mentioned in the review? there would be outrage..
you cant have it both ways..

If accucrat loses money because of this review..the only one to blame is accucraft..

and the comparisons to Aster are ridiculous and irrelevant..
(IMO the review could have done with a lot less comparisions to Aster)
you cant pay "one third to one half" the price of an aster then complain its not an aster..
granted, even for the "low" price of this cab forward, which is still very substantial (and totally out of my price range!
one should expect a very well built machine..so IMO, the "complaints" in the review are all totally justified..

I think (my opinion) that accucraft maybe got in over their heads with this one..
they should concentrate more on the Rubys and the Moguls..simple machines at a reasonable price..
perhaps its simply not possible to build and sell a quality live steam loco as complicated as the Cab Forward for a "mere" $6,000..
you maybe have to cut too many corners to bring the engine in at that price..
if you want "Aster Allegany Quality" you have to be prepared to pay $20,000 to get it!

and I totally dont understand:

and a direct ad for their services in which seems to be shoddy at best. They dont even have the knowhow to fit it themself they had to have someone else fix their Cab foward for them, and now are advertising their business in a so called "review" that was published in StiG.


who's business?
what business?
I saw nothing about anyone's business in the review..

Scot