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Those changes to the windows really made a difference Mike!
Greg
Greg
Standard gauge annie
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Posted By Bruce Chandler on 02 Jun 2012 04:38 PM
Looking very nice. Are you planning on straight running boards, like the drawing? Or, are you going to keep the Annie look and not fill the front part slot?
Bruce I'd like to give it straight running boards but I'm not sure how I'd manage the attachment. I'll need to think about that!
Looking very nice. Are you planning on straight running boards, like the drawing? Or, are you going to keep the Annie look and not fill the front part slot?
Bruce I'd like to give it straight running boards but I'm not sure how I'd manage the attachment. I'll need to think about that!
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Mike, you have at least a couple of options for attachments.
On one of mine, I just ran some square tube right through the boiler and used that for support in the front.
On another, I used some thin brass strip that I folded to the correct angle - and pinned it directly to the boiler.
Just remember to leave room for the weight.
![]()
I'm sure there's some other ways as well...
On one of mine, I just ran some square tube right through the boiler and used that for support in the front.
On another, I used some thin brass strip that I folded to the correct angle - and pinned it directly to the boiler.
Just remember to leave room for the weight.
I'm sure there's some other ways as well...
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Posted By Tom Leaton on 02 Jun 2012 02:11 PM
You may want to try raising the boiler 1/8" or more, experimenting by putting matchstick spacers ( or some such) atop the cylinder saddle and raising the rear end the same amount.
The way the boiler has its bottom as part of the chassis molding, that would be a major event.
You may want to try raising the boiler 1/8" or more, experimenting by putting matchstick spacers ( or some such) atop the cylinder saddle and raising the rear end the same amount.
The way the boiler has its bottom as part of the chassis molding, that would be a major event.
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@import url(http://www.mylargescale.com/Provide...ad.ashx?type=style&file=SyntaxHighlighter.css);@import url(/providers/htmleditorproviders/cehtmleditorprovider/dnngeneral.css); Posted By Bruce Chandler on 03 Jun 2012 06:14 AM
Mike, you have at least a couple of options for attachments.
On one of mine, I just ran some square tube right through the boiler and used that for support in the front.
On another, I used some thin brass strip that I folded to the correct angle - and pinned it directly to the boiler.
Just remember to leave room for the weight.
![]()
I'm sure there's some other ways as well...
Actually looking around I see that the Ma and Pa ten wheelers (#27 and #28) each had a raised walkway with air tank under it on one side, but on opposite sides. The one in the drawing, #28, had it on the engineer's side, and #27 on the fireman's side.
Here's #27 on each side:
;
![]()
So maybe I'l make one side straight and the other bi-level.
You can see in these picture how the Annie's large boiler makes it hard to get the cab right
Mike, you have at least a couple of options for attachments.
On one of mine, I just ran some square tube right through the boiler and used that for support in the front.
On another, I used some thin brass strip that I folded to the correct angle - and pinned it directly to the boiler.
Just remember to leave room for the weight.
I'm sure there's some other ways as well...
Actually looking around I see that the Ma and Pa ten wheelers (#27 and #28) each had a raised walkway with air tank under it on one side, but on opposite sides. The one in the drawing, #28, had it on the engineer's side, and #27 on the fireman's side.
Here's #27 on each side:
;
So maybe I'l make one side straight and the other bi-level.
You can see in these picture how the Annie's large boiler makes it hard to get the cab right
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I will add my two bits in and say that it's coming along really well! The dimensions are now well within what "looks" right for a standard gauge engine!
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2,910 Posts
Thanks again to everyone who has replied--it's been a great help.
More progress, more problems
Decided on a straight running board on the engineer's side. The patch came out well, and the running board does not actually go uphill--the boiler is just sitting a little high on the saddle. Vaguely 1:29-ish man is small, but not outlandishly small, next to that boiler. I will probably replace the stock Annie "cowcatcher" with a brass one I have, or maybe I'll fabricate a freight-style pilot.
One serious problem with the thing which you can't see here is that now the running gear, the valve motion, sticks out well beyond the running boards. It looks odd. I can't really make the running boards wider without making the cab wider, which make s it look narrow gage again. I don't think I can manage narrowing the running gear. Can that be done?
Below, though, things look a little worse yet
Vaguely 1:29-ish man is standing next to a gigantic air pump, something that might have come off the Titanic. And the Annie air tank/raised running board is now too wide. I think there's a Trackside details order in my future.
Predictably, this started as something that was going to be fairly simple and straightforward and has now wound up much more complicated!
More progress, more problems
Decided on a straight running board on the engineer's side. The patch came out well, and the running board does not actually go uphill--the boiler is just sitting a little high on the saddle. Vaguely 1:29-ish man is small, but not outlandishly small, next to that boiler. I will probably replace the stock Annie "cowcatcher" with a brass one I have, or maybe I'll fabricate a freight-style pilot.
One serious problem with the thing which you can't see here is that now the running gear, the valve motion, sticks out well beyond the running boards. It looks odd. I can't really make the running boards wider without making the cab wider, which make s it look narrow gage again. I don't think I can manage narrowing the running gear. Can that be done?
Below, though, things look a little worse yet
Vaguely 1:29-ish man is standing next to a gigantic air pump, something that might have come off the Titanic. And the Annie air tank/raised running board is now too wide. I think there's a Trackside details order in my future.
Predictably, this started as something that was going to be fairly simple and straightforward and has now wound up much more complicated!
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242 Posts
I like it!
The new cab fits perfectly, and so does the brass cowcatcher.
Alec
The new cab fits perfectly, and so does the brass cowcatcher.
Alec
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3,857 Posts
Posted By lownote on 07 Jun 2012 11:38 AM
Thanks again to everyone who has replied--it's been a great help.
More progress, more problems
![]()
Decided on a straight running board on the engineer's side. The patch came out well, and the running board does not actually go uphill--the boiler is just sitting a little high on the saddle. Vaguely 1:29-ish man is small, but not outlandishly small, next to that boiler. I will probably replace the stock Annie "cowcatcher" with a brass one I have, or maybe I'll fabricate a freight-style pilot.
One serious problem with the thing which you can't see here is that now the running gear, the valve motion, sticks out well beyond the running boards. It looks odd. I can't really make the running boards wider without making the cab wider, which make s it look narrow gage again. I don't think I can manage narrowing the running gear. Can that be done?
Below, though, things look a little worse yet
![]()
Vaguely 1:29-ish man is standing next to a gigantic air pump, something that might have come off the Titanic. And the Annie air tank/raised running board is now too wide. I think there's a Trackside details order in my future.
Predictably, this started as something that was going to be fairly simple and straightforward and has now wound up much more complicated!
Mike,
Your bash looks great to me. Very nice work!
Can I make a suggestion regarding the running board width? How much would you have to add to the running board width to make it look right to you? Going back to my 7 1/2 inch gauge ten-wheeler, my cab sits on an extension of the running board castings. When the cab sits on this casting, there is a small ledge on the bottom of the cab side walls. About 3/8th of an inch on each side on my engine. Just reduce this figure to 1/29th scale. You would have to scratch-build some new running boards though. Just a suggestion.
Thanks again to everyone who has replied--it's been a great help.
More progress, more problems
Decided on a straight running board on the engineer's side. The patch came out well, and the running board does not actually go uphill--the boiler is just sitting a little high on the saddle. Vaguely 1:29-ish man is small, but not outlandishly small, next to that boiler. I will probably replace the stock Annie "cowcatcher" with a brass one I have, or maybe I'll fabricate a freight-style pilot.
One serious problem with the thing which you can't see here is that now the running gear, the valve motion, sticks out well beyond the running boards. It looks odd. I can't really make the running boards wider without making the cab wider, which make s it look narrow gage again. I don't think I can manage narrowing the running gear. Can that be done?
Below, though, things look a little worse yet
Vaguely 1:29-ish man is standing next to a gigantic air pump, something that might have come off the Titanic. And the Annie air tank/raised running board is now too wide. I think there's a Trackside details order in my future.
Predictably, this started as something that was going to be fairly simple and straightforward and has now wound up much more complicated!
Mike,
Your bash looks great to me. Very nice work!
Can I make a suggestion regarding the running board width? How much would you have to add to the running board width to make it look right to you? Going back to my 7 1/2 inch gauge ten-wheeler, my cab sits on an extension of the running board castings. When the cab sits on this casting, there is a small ledge on the bottom of the cab side walls. About 3/8th of an inch on each side on my engine. Just reduce this figure to 1/29th scale. You would have to scratch-build some new running boards though. Just a suggestion.
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2,910 Posts
Thank you!
I'd probably have to add just under 1/4 in 1/1 to the running boards on either side to have them come out to cover the valve gear. I could just add a styrene strip, and maybe cheat it down, so it tapered back towards the cab. It might work--maybe add 1/8 to each side and cheat it back as it approached the cab? Then I could get away with using the Annie's stock air tank. But it would probably be too obvious a taper and look weird.
I'd probably have to add just under 1/4 in 1/1 to the running boards on either side to have them come out to cover the valve gear. I could just add a styrene strip, and maybe cheat it down, so it tapered back towards the cab. It might work--maybe add 1/8 to each side and cheat it back as it approached the cab? Then I could get away with using the Annie's stock air tank. But it would probably be too obvious a taper and look weird.
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3,857 Posts
Posted By lownote on 07 Jun 2012 12:23 PM
Thank you!
I'd probably have to add just under 1/4 in 1/1 to the running boards on either side to have them come out to cover the valve gear. I could just add a styrene strip, and maybe cheat it down, so it tapered back towards the cab. It might work--maybe add 1/8 to each side and cheat it back as it approached the cab? Then I could get away with using the Annie's stock air tank. But it would probably be too obvious a taper and look weird.
My ten-wheeler is patterned after a generic Baldwin. Possibly a MA&PA or even a Wabash. The running boards on my loco are narrower at the front (near the smoke box and then make a gentle s-curve to increase width at the steam pump and cab, if this is any help. I haven't run my steamer in about eight years (since the loss of sight in one eye). It is stord in my transport trailer now. If you need a photo as reference, I can try to unload it and get some photos for you. Might take me a while. But I think you have the idea though.
![]()
Thank you!
I'd probably have to add just under 1/4 in 1/1 to the running boards on either side to have them come out to cover the valve gear. I could just add a styrene strip, and maybe cheat it down, so it tapered back towards the cab. It might work--maybe add 1/8 to each side and cheat it back as it approached the cab? Then I could get away with using the Annie's stock air tank. But it would probably be too obvious a taper and look weird.
My ten-wheeler is patterned after a generic Baldwin. Possibly a MA&PA or even a Wabash. The running boards on my loco are narrower at the front (near the smoke box and then make a gentle s-curve to increase width at the steam pump and cab, if this is any help. I haven't run my steamer in about eight years (since the loss of sight in one eye). It is stord in my transport trailer now. If you need a photo as reference, I can try to unload it and get some photos for you. Might take me a while. But I think you have the idea though.
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6,821 Posts
I don't think I can manage narrowing the running gear. Can that be done?
Well, you've managed to solve most of the other problems - of course it can be done!
Whether you want to attempt it is another, entirely different question. The danget is that you won't maintain adequate clearances to keep the rods from impacting. Having wheels that are wide isn't helping.
First question is whether just narrowing the gear at the top - where the reversing bracket drives the piston rod - will do the trick. If you look at the Annie cylinders, you'll find the valve chest (square top portion) sticks out further than the cylinders.
I always reckoned that the wide saddle and valve chests were designed for a std gauge loco (in 1:22.5) and Baldwin moved the cylinders inwards to match the 3' gauge drivers.
I have a set of cylinders somewhere (I think) with the cylinder portion cut off and re-mounted in the same vertical plane. The plan was to make a standard gauge loco in the larger scale. Let me look for them and see if I can post a photo.
Edit +1 hr
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Them's pretty big valve chests. You can see the curve on the outside of the cylinders - on second thoughts, they were small cylinders added to large valve chests - imho.
You could narrow them - or use smaller ones like the set on the Delton/Aristo C-16. Someone around here has lots of parts.
P.S. In the junk box where I found them are two more sets of cylinders - one complete and one pair cut off the saddle. PM me if you want one!
Well, you've managed to solve most of the other problems - of course it can be done!
Whether you want to attempt it is another, entirely different question. The danget is that you won't maintain adequate clearances to keep the rods from impacting. Having wheels that are wide isn't helping.
First question is whether just narrowing the gear at the top - where the reversing bracket drives the piston rod - will do the trick. If you look at the Annie cylinders, you'll find the valve chest (square top portion) sticks out further than the cylinders.
I always reckoned that the wide saddle and valve chests were designed for a std gauge loco (in 1:22.5) and Baldwin moved the cylinders inwards to match the 3' gauge drivers.
I have a set of cylinders somewhere (I think) with the cylinder portion cut off and re-mounted in the same vertical plane. The plan was to make a standard gauge loco in the larger scale. Let me look for them and see if I can post a photo.
Edit +1 hr
Them's pretty big valve chests. You can see the curve on the outside of the cylinders - on second thoughts, they were small cylinders added to large valve chests - imho.
You could narrow them - or use smaller ones like the set on the Delton/Aristo C-16. Someone around here has lots of parts.
P.S. In the junk box where I found them are two more sets of cylinders - one complete and one pair cut off the saddle. PM me if you want one!
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Pete, thanks. I looked at it last night and thought about narrowing the saddle to bring everything in towards the center, but moving or replacing the cylinders would be a better idea. The I suppose I'd cut down the rods connecting the two sides of the valve gear, and then--as you say, here's the tricky part--hope they don't bind on curves.
I'll have to think about this. The trackwork on our layout is pretty crude, and it sees a lot of little kid action. What ever I do has to be reasonably robust and forgiving
I'll have to think about this. The trackwork on our layout is pretty crude, and it sees a lot of little kid action. What ever I do has to be reasonably robust and forgiving
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2,910 Posts
I got impatient this weekend and decided to start painting. Maybe a mistake. The paint is, for the boiler and cab, Krylon camouflage olive, rubbed all over with powdered graphite. It's not based on any particular prototype color scheme, it's based on the fact that my wife complains about too many "black steam engines."
The smokebox is scalecoat smokebox gray coated with neolube. I ran out of neo-lube before I could finish the running gear/rods.
The cab has fake rivets added using Jerry Barne's foil tape and ponce wheel method.
I like it OK, but I think the verdict I'm settling on is that it's hard to make an Annie into standard gage without reducing the diameter of the boiler and narrowing the valve gear
I have a few detail parts coming from trackside--air pump for one thing, and hand rail stanchions.
So I'm wondering--is the headlight too small? The generator? Both are from the parts bin. Is the bell too big? I have a taller/narrower stack that would fit--that might be better.
The smokebox is scalecoat smokebox gray coated with neolube. I ran out of neo-lube before I could finish the running gear/rods.
The cab has fake rivets added using Jerry Barne's foil tape and ponce wheel method.
I like it OK, but I think the verdict I'm settling on is that it's hard to make an Annie into standard gage without reducing the diameter of the boiler and narrowing the valve gear
I have a few detail parts coming from trackside--air pump for one thing, and hand rail stanchions.
So I'm wondering--is the headlight too small? The generator? Both are from the parts bin. Is the bell too big? I have a taller/narrower stack that would fit--that might be better.
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3,857 Posts
Mike,
You ought to be very proud of what you have accomplished thus far.Absolutely beautiful looking ten-wheeler! To my eye, the lines and proportions are perfect. The generator and bell look fine to me. The headlight may be a little small, but I would "live with it" for a while to see. The cab really turned out nice.
![]()
You ought to be very proud of what you have accomplished thus far.Absolutely beautiful looking ten-wheeler! To my eye, the lines and proportions are perfect. The generator and bell look fine to me. The headlight may be a little small, but I would "live with it" for a while to see. The cab really turned out nice.
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332 Posts
Headlight, bell, generator, look good to me. Go cruise through the steam gallery here http://www.northeast.railfan.net/ should put your mind at ease about those, or at least it does my mind.
for example, Nevada Northern 4-6-0 http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/tr_nn40.jpgeven though h/l looks, and may well be bigger.
CNW http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/tr_cnw1385.jpg
C&O http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/co377s.jpg
Canadian 2-6-0 where h/l looks about same proportion as yours
http://www.bcarchives.gov.bc.ca/cgi-bin/www2i/.visual/img_med/dir_67/f_06471.gif
for example, Nevada Northern 4-6-0 http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/tr_nn40.jpgeven though h/l looks, and may well be bigger.
CNW http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/tr_cnw1385.jpg
C&O http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/co377s.jpg
Canadian 2-6-0 where h/l looks about same proportion as yours
http://www.bcarchives.gov.bc.ca/cgi-bin/www2i/.visual/img_med/dir_67/f_06471.gif
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332 Posts
Posted By lownote on 10 Jun 2012 10:44 AM
It's not based on any particular prototype color scheme, it's based on the fact that my wife complains about too many "black steam engines."
I'm with her on that
![]()
IIRC, for a period in late 1880s early 1890s, not confident dates are 100% accurate, Baldwin and other builders too, did use a dark olive green and not black. Lettering and striping was often imitation aluminum. Check with other folks for precise confirmation of the above - for example the Early Rail Yahoo Group. And was something about same in Narrow Gauge and Short Line Gazette around 10 years ago.
It's not based on any particular prototype color scheme, it's based on the fact that my wife complains about too many "black steam engines."
I'm with her on that
IIRC, for a period in late 1880s early 1890s, not confident dates are 100% accurate, Baldwin and other builders too, did use a dark olive green and not black. Lettering and striping was often imitation aluminum. Check with other folks for precise confirmation of the above - for example the Early Rail Yahoo Group. And was something about same in Narrow Gauge and Short Line Gazette around 10 years ago.
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2,910 Posts
Thank you again. The olive green came out reasonably well and shifts dramatically with the light, which is the effect I wanted. I need to decide if I want striping and what color. Olive green with gold was fairly common, as I understand it. But silver/white would look pretty sharp.
I'm going to have to deal with the tender soon. It needs to be shorter, lower, and narrower
I'm going to have to deal with the tender soon. It needs to be shorter, lower, and narrower
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332 Posts
Posted By lownote on 10 Jun 2012 01:08 PM
The olive green came out reasonably well and shifts dramatically with the light, which is the effect I wanted.
Cool! Would like to see that in person
Hey, got in the mood to play in Google and found this http://loggingmallets.railfan.net/s...finish.htm
Quote:
A great deal of research has been done in regards to the factory paint schemes of the Baldwin locomotive works. Thanks to this research a clearer picture has emerged of what Baldwin's locomotives looked like in both color and finish when they left the factory and entered service. Baldwin's schemes went from opulent wine-red and red wheels in the early 1870s, to elegant Lake brown by the mid decade, and then to a dark Olive green by the start of the 1880s. The dark olive green would remain Baldwin's standard color for steam locomotives, unless specified otherwise by the buyer, well into the 20th Century. As a result, most of the Logging Mallets were olive green when they left the factory. The large mainline railroads, which had massive locomotive fleets, often requested plain black with no stripes after the 1880s, but short lines and industrial railroads tended to leave the painting up to Baldwin.
I wondered about that, and hey, it matches my preference anyway!
In typical Baldwin practice the entire engine would be olive green, down to the frames and axles. Put simply, these were olive green locomotives, not black engines with a few olive green parts. The above diagram is a visual representation of how a logging Mallet would be painted from the factory: The only non-green parts would have been the smokebox, stack, and firebox, all of which would have been blackened, either with graphite or some other mixture. Also, the boiler jackets on some of the early logging Mallets were planished iron, a highly reflective material with a medium grey color. Planished iron would take on the color of its surroundings, such as a blue sky, resulting in the common perception of the material having a blue tint. Another feature worth mentioning is that Baldwin was known to paint walking surfaces, like running board and tender tops, with unvarnished mineral paint, usually a red-brown similar to freight car paint. This was because these areas would be subject to more use and punishment than other areas and need frequent repainting. These mineral paint areas however would not affect the overall look of the factory scheme, as they generally could not bee seen from an observer on the ground. Cab roofs on new engines were also painted with mineral paint.
And, well whatcha know about that, is asked here!
http://www.mylargescale.com/Communi...fault.aspx
03 Mar 2010 09:34 PM
Would anyone know what color "bottle green" would look like in reference to a Baldwin locomotive of the late 1800s?
The olive green came out reasonably well and shifts dramatically with the light, which is the effect I wanted.
Cool! Would like to see that in person
Hey, got in the mood to play in Google and found this http://loggingmallets.railfan.net/s...finish.htm
Quote:
A great deal of research has been done in regards to the factory paint schemes of the Baldwin locomotive works. Thanks to this research a clearer picture has emerged of what Baldwin's locomotives looked like in both color and finish when they left the factory and entered service. Baldwin's schemes went from opulent wine-red and red wheels in the early 1870s, to elegant Lake brown by the mid decade, and then to a dark Olive green by the start of the 1880s. The dark olive green would remain Baldwin's standard color for steam locomotives, unless specified otherwise by the buyer, well into the 20th Century. As a result, most of the Logging Mallets were olive green when they left the factory. The large mainline railroads, which had massive locomotive fleets, often requested plain black with no stripes after the 1880s, but short lines and industrial railroads tended to leave the painting up to Baldwin.
I wondered about that, and hey, it matches my preference anyway!
In typical Baldwin practice the entire engine would be olive green, down to the frames and axles. Put simply, these were olive green locomotives, not black engines with a few olive green parts. The above diagram is a visual representation of how a logging Mallet would be painted from the factory: The only non-green parts would have been the smokebox, stack, and firebox, all of which would have been blackened, either with graphite or some other mixture. Also, the boiler jackets on some of the early logging Mallets were planished iron, a highly reflective material with a medium grey color. Planished iron would take on the color of its surroundings, such as a blue sky, resulting in the common perception of the material having a blue tint. Another feature worth mentioning is that Baldwin was known to paint walking surfaces, like running board and tender tops, with unvarnished mineral paint, usually a red-brown similar to freight car paint. This was because these areas would be subject to more use and punishment than other areas and need frequent repainting. These mineral paint areas however would not affect the overall look of the factory scheme, as they generally could not bee seen from an observer on the ground. Cab roofs on new engines were also painted with mineral paint.
And, well whatcha know about that, is asked here!
http://www.mylargescale.com/Communi...fault.aspx
03 Mar 2010 09:34 PM
Would anyone know what color "bottle green" would look like in reference to a Baldwin locomotive of the late 1800s?
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I hate to say anything less than positive about such a beautiful model, but you might want to know..
You would not usually see rivets at the edge of the cylinder jacket. There might be a few to hold it in place, but in general the jacket would have been attached behind the scenes, as it were, and show no rivets or fasteners at all. Of course, specific prototypes could have been different, but overall I would avoid their use unless you know they're prototypical.
You would not usually see rivets at the edge of the cylinder jacket. There might be a few to hold it in place, but in general the jacket would have been attached behind the scenes, as it were, and show no rivets or fasteners at all. Of course, specific prototypes could have been different, but overall I would avoid their use unless you know they're prototypical.
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