[lownote]

I've got a Bachmann Anniversary model that I never run. Our layout is mostly 1:29, and the annie just looks out of place. I've thought for a long time that it ought to be possible to make the Annie--which is more or less in 1:22--to look more "standard gage."




So here's an exploration in photoshop




The stock annie:

and some photoshop modification: shortening the firebox, the boiler/backhead, lowering the cab and the domes and the stack, scaling the headlight and bell down a little. Does it look reasonably standard gage?

The challenge, if I remember right, will be shortening the chassis. My annie is in storage at the moment, and I can't recall how much empty space there is under the cab.


Also something looks a little off to me. The cab is maybe too low? Or the domes need to be lower? The annie's boiler has always seemed slightly wrong but I can't figure out why. The whole thing will have to be narrowed, and the cab will be a challenge


The Southern ran trains near where we live, and the Southern had a lot of 4-6-0s active into the twentieth century (http://southern.railfan.net/images/archive/southern/steam/460/460.html). I'll probably paint it as an imaginary loco with a Southern green boiler. That is, if I decide to go ahead. Any thoughts on getting a more mainline look?

 

[S.B.A.]

I think the Annie would make a very nice representation of a standard gauge 4-6-0 in 1:29, but I think a few things should be changed in addition to the domes, headlight, smokestack and cab. The pilot should have most of that narrow gauge bulk taken off, as well as the over-sized smokebox support beams that connect to the pilot. See this photo posted at the NGDF; http://ngdiscussion.net/phorum/file.php?1,file=18394 the most noticeable attribute to this locomotive is the placement of the running boards, which are nearly in line with the centerline of the boiler. The replacement of some piping with smaller diameter piping would also help give the locomotive a more standard gauge look. This sounds like a very fun project! Good luck!

Sean

 

[W3NZL]

About 15 yrs ago I did a similar thing with a B-mann Big Hauler, changed out and cut down a number of parts,
and just plain rebuilt other parts of it... The cab was sectioned both vertically & horizontally as well, the
tender had a half inch taken out of the middle of it as well to get it to the proper width... I cut up 2 of the
junky old drives they had and made a consolidation out of it, I was trying to get it to look something like one
of WM's H-3 consolidations... I never ran it very much because I was always afraid of the weak drives those
things had, but years later when Barry came out with his consolidation drive, I got one an installed it, been
flogging it pretty hard ever since... Here is a pic of it with the newer drive, and one of what its loosely modeled
after...
Paul R...

 

[lownote]

Paul that's really nice. I'd thought about using one of Barry's drive to make it a 2-8-0. But I like the Annie's valve gear, and it's a little unclear to me how Barry converts an annie to a 2-8-0. Also I have a couple 2-8-0s but no 4-6-0.

I think sectioning the cab will be hard enough--I'm stil not sure I want to do this
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[DKRickman]

Two things come to mind:
One is that the handrails which are correct for a 1:22 loco are too high for a 1:29 loco, so you might want to move them down a bit.
The other is that the cab looks off - like a hot rod that has been chopped. It might be too wide as well, but it definitely looks too long, especially the window.
If you are interested in doing a Southern loco, I could suggest a couple prototypes, and provide scale drawings of a southern Ry. cab that would look good on that model.

 

[lownote]

Thanks DR, I think you're right about the cab, and the handrails. I hate messing with handrails, I always screw them up!

I have to admit I'm less interested in matching a specific prototype than I am in getting a standard gage look



According to Kevin Strong, the best/easiest prototype would be the Maryland and Pa RR's 4-6-0s, which had under 60 inch drivers. The Annie drivers are 2 inches and scale out to 58 inches in 1:29. I found a pdf of southern steam and they had a few 10 wheelers with drivers in the low 60s. I may just make it a consol

 

[Gary Armitstead]

Mike,

I don't have a way of getting pictures of my 7.5 inch gauge ten-wheeler to you (all old prints), but I found some pictures off some live steamer sites. This will give you another angle as to how the proportion should be in relation to cab, driver size, frame length, etc. Hope this helps.

BTW, the driver diameter is eight inches and if I remember correctly, the lead truck wheels are slight under 4 inches. If you need the dimensions closer, I can go out in the garage and measure my locomotive. I haven't been able to run it in years because of eyesight issues!

 

[lownote]

Here's a badly photographed drawing of Ma & Pa #27




and my photoshopped annie



Kevin Strong seems to be right--they are very close

 

[Pete Thornton]

Also something looks a little off to me. The cab is maybe too low? Or the domes need to be lower? The annie's boiler has always seemed slightly wrong but I can't figure out why.
Mike,

I've chopped a few Big Haulers in my time, and even set out to make a standard gauge version in 1:22.5 ! (Gauge-3).

I think part of the problem is that the sizes of the accessories are what sets the mood! Baldwin had domes, but they were mostly the same size, so even if the original ET&WNC loco had small domes, at 1:22.5 they look big! The drawing of the Ma&Pa 4-6-0 shows that they are large for a 1:29th scale version.

Shortening the pilot is easy, and the Ma&Pa drawing suggests you need to do it. (Just cut the metal pckup strips and resolder them after you've cut and joined the plastic.)
You could shorten the cab and move it back like the drawing.

The rest is details. I'm not sure why you find moving handrails so scary? It's just a matter of making some more holes and filling the old ones. Not sure I buy the need to changing the running bords, but that isn't too trciky either.

Looks like a fun project!

 

[Amber]

One thing that I noticed about the drawing is that the front truck has a shorter wheel base than the big hauler has. Shortening that would also help with the standard gauge look, I think.

 

[DKRickman]

I've been contemplating the same sort of bash myself. In my case, I'd make a Danville & Western engine, since the drivers are spot on for it, the counterweights are easy enough to modify as needed, and I have a thing for the D&W. The line had three, two sisters and another that was almost identical despite being from a different builder.


Here's a builder's photo of #20, and a photo from 1933, both of which should link to larger images:




If you're interested, more info can be found on my web site, http://southern-railway.railfan.net/dw/

Whatever you do, I look forward to seeing the results.

 

[lownote]

That loco on the right would be a very nice match for a standard gage annie

When did the Southern go to the green paint scheme, as on the Pacific at the Smithsonian? It was in the 1920s, no? And only passenger engines?

Part of our layout is modeled on the Washington & Old Dominion, which leased locos from the Southern and used some Southern trackage before it converted to electric/diesel in the 1920s.

For me, the hard part is probably going to be the cab. It will need to be cut down in three dimensions. I'm not at all sure how to go about it. It would probably be easier to build an entirely new cab from scratch. I have the annie cab sitting on my workbench, and I'm trying to figure out how to attack it. Cut it into components, and then reduce them? How do i cut the roof off, since it's a curved cut? Hmmm

 

[Dave Meashey]

"When did the Southern go to the green paint scheme, as on the Pacific at the Smithsonian? It was in the 1920s, no? And only passenger engines?"

Mike;

Probably some time in the mid-1920s. The tale I have heard told is that President Spencer (of the Southern Ry) was on a trip to England. He happened to ride the Southern Railway of England, a really took a liking to their green livery for passenger locomotives. When he got back home, he decided to try the green livery on his own road's locomotives.

Now, I'm working from memory because my books are at home, but I think the Grouping (various smaller railways into Britain's "Big Four") happened sometime before 1925. Had Mr. Spencer visited prior to that event, there would not have been a Southern Railway to ride upon, only smaller lines like the London, Brighton & South Coast. Hopefully, one of our members from across the pond will chime in and correct my dates, if needed.

Best,
David Meashey

 

[DKRickman]

Posted By lownote on 04 May 2012 09:50 AM
That loco on the right would be a very nice match for a standard gage annie
Both photos are of the same engine, just taken some 30 years apart. It gives you an idea how much an engine could change in appearance over it's life.

Posted By lownote on 04 May 2012 09:50 AM
When did the Southern go to the green paint scheme, as on the Pacific at the Smithsonian?
I believe the first green Ps-4 class Pacifics were delivered in 1926 (the earlier ones were delivered in black), and that other engines were repainted green after that time. I have a paint diagram dated 1927 which clearly defines the standard green scheme.

Posted By lownote on 04 May 2012 09:50 AM
For me, the hard part is probably going to be the cab.
I suggest that you look at simply building your own. They're pretty simple - just a front and back, with the roof and sides being either separate (on older designs) or one piece (on newer ones). In HO scale, I can knock out a cab in an afternoon without any trouble.

Some Southern engines:
#958

#967

And #1113, a squat little engine and somewhat unusual for Southern

I'm not sure about #1113, but the 900's has 62" drivers - about as close as you're going to get to the model's 58" on Southern proper. Most, if not all, passenger engines received green paint in the late '20s. Done properly, I know of few better looking paint schemes for North American steam locomotives. If you want, the artwork is available for free, and I can send it to you or straight to the decal producer of your choice.

 

[DKRickman]

For more Southern engines, see here:
http://southern.railfan.net/images/archive/southern/steam/460/460.html

 

[rwjenkins]

A few thoughts looking at the Ma & Pa drawing...

The Ma & Pa engine is basically a Baldwin catalog model shortline 10-wheeler, so it could plausibly fit in just about anywhwere, even if the W&OD didn't have that specific engine.

The chassis doesn't need shortening at the rear, but the front wall of the scaled-down cab will be further back on the boiler. I'm not sure if the stock cab just fits over the boiler, or if there are grooves in the boiler that it slides into that will need to be filled.

Definitely shorten the pilot truck, the wheelbase is too long even for the ET&WNC narrow gauge prototype for the Bachmann model.

The existing sand dome would be about the right size for the steam dome, so you only have one new dome to worry about (a new, smaller sand dome).

The mounting holes for the handrail stanchions look like they're in about the right place, just that the Anne has longer stanchions that stick up vertically to raise the handrail to its final height. Using short stanchions that stick straight out from the boiler (instead of bending upwards) in the existing mounting holes should do the job, I think.

Smokestack and headlight are probably usable as-is, but the smokebox should be shortened a little bit. From the double row of rivets just ahead of the smokestack, the part of the smokebox between there and the smokebox front should be somewhere around 1/2 to 2/3 of its current length.

The cylinders and valve chests are one thing that always scream "Annie", or more specifically, the overhang of the valve chests over the side of the cylinders. Check it against prototype photos and decide if it's something you want to live with or try to change. Larger cylinders might help.

Use 1:29 detail parts for the air compressor, bell, dynamo, etc. They might look "close enough", but the overall effect will make a huge difference in the appearance of the model.

 

[lownote]

I just managed to cut up the bachmann cab a little while a go and decided, when I was done, that I'd probably be better off making a new cab from scratch.

Thank you for the pictures--I had seen that page of southern 4-6-0s, it's in my original post. The 62 inch driver version is probably my best shot--I had seen a drawing of the 62 in ch driver loco in a pdf. file.

I'd love to see the artwork, and more info on the color scheme--thank you

 

[lownote]

thanks RW Jenkins, excellent suggestions. I agree with your suggestion to "Use 1:29 detail parts for the air compressor, bell, dynamo, etc." If I could find 1:29 detail parts I would use them--they're not easy to come by

 

[rwjenkins]

Looking at the size and spacing of the drivers on those Southern engines, I'm thinking a new set of drivers would go a long way towards transforming the Annie's apperance. I wonder how easy it would be to retrofit with Slater's wheels? (https://slatersplastikard.com/wheels/gauge1.php) They list their offerings in prototype feet and inches in 1:32 and 10mm scales, so you'll need to do a bit of math to figure out what you need in 1:29. Convert to inches and multiply by .90625 to figure out what the 1:32 size scales out to in 1:29. Multiply by .95144 to convert from 10mm scale.

Accucraft has a parts section in the e-store on their website. They might have some 1:29 stuff listed there from their K4, USRA switcher, and B&O docksider.

 

[Pete Thornton]

or if there are grooves in the boiler that it slides into that will need to be filled.
Every ten wheeler I've dealt with had grooves. I assume the latest 'Annie' and later versions are the same.

I have cut slices from the boiler and re-attached them together in a different order - that's another way to move the slots!

How do i cut the roof off, since it's a curved cut?
Small fret saw, designed for cutting curves in wood. Or cut it off and use a piece of styrene to replace it.

I'd probably be better off making a new cab from scratch
I have two or three cabs lying around if you want to experiment. The early wood ones and the later steel versions. Send me a Message.