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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
To all:
After reading this posting, please use the Bachmann site to register your response to the following. Why? Because Kader Industries, according to direct Bachmann sources,  used Ask The Bach-mann as a source for consumer responses.

Posted for your input in  Ask The Bach-mann, in the large scale section, is a request entitled:


To Kader Industires: Please read this request."

I along with others, are simply disgusted with Kader's admitted lack of pre-shipment testing of Bachmann's excellent locomotive models. We are asking your support in requesting Kader Industries to offer their response to your now in-print request for pre-shipment testing.  Indicate in your post how you favor pre-shipment testing to your puchasing and virtually testing their new products.

Thanks,
Wendell
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Meanwhile....
Will Kader here from any number of you -- on the Bachmann site -- requesting they PLEASE test a number of the locos BEFORE shipping them out to the innocents?

The Bach-mann's response initially to the request to test a prototype is understandable -- and correctly interpreted that there is NO prototype to be tested. Transparent in his truthful response is the addage that to stop the assembly line to test is financially impossible. True! However, the next step is not: Pull several locos from the resultant inventory BEFORE shipping and test them! Yes! Test them!
Find out in advance what we will find out as customers --- after buying.

Make sense?

Please register your comments on the Bachmann site.  The declaration that this is THE site that is read by the Kader excs. has been verified by the Bachmann key holders.

Wendell
 

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Posted By Crosshead on 03/03/2008 3:19 PM
They did this with the K-27. Don't you remember? Months before UPS
got Roger Cutter's to him, there was one being thoroughly tested in Massachusetts.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1eW4phOT4E

There were threads discussing these tests here in this forum.

Rick


This "test" was discussed on chat here one night....with Stan who was on chat.  AND...I personally discussed that engine with Ray, "The Bachman", at the Sacramento show a few months ago.  Dwight was even with me.

THAT engine arrived at Bachmann in pieces.  It was NOT assembled.  Ray told us hilarious stories about them figuring out how to assemble it..and getting it assembled. They had table after table covered with parts...and folks trying to figure out what went where.

FOR SURE, it was not a preproduction prototype (twern't no IT...it was a THEM)...and I think that what is being asked here regards preproduction units (for which they are probably NONE in the Kader manufacturing philosophy)...or testing of selected production units.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Mike and all:

What is the beef with Bachmann getting the OK from Kader -- apparently the manufacturer -- to hold the shipment to simply test-run several locos to see if there any problems. From my understanding with conversations with Dave, the problems are not held secret when layout tested. Is there now let alone enough history of what to look for in the compatibility of the plastic with the holding screws as well as how it runs on a track layout with and without grade?

Bachmann's image is negative for potential customers who follow this continuing conspiracy of confusion regarding their release of new locomotives.

To me, the ethic of continuing to sell products with a history of failure, when remedy is simply to not deliver until tests are made, is beyond me.
That is the simplistic honest recourse IF a production line "can't be shut down at the onset to ensure quality;" or if "there are not any test models" and "we can't afford to create a test model." Nonsense! Kader is NOT a backyard operation. Imagine Sony Corporation claiming they have NO testing prior to manufacturing. What a nightmare.

Incredible.

Wendell
 

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Posted By Wendell Hanks on 03/05/2008 7:18 PM
Mike and all:

What is the beef with Bachmann getting the OK from Kader -- apparently the manufacturer -- to hold the shipment to simply test-run several locos to see if there any problems.


I agree...got no disagreement.  Was just explaining what I was told and read in chat regarding the "prototype" that was run last fall.  

Better yet...perhaps several respected "evaluators" should test samples...before they're shipped....people who USE these kind of items. 

I think the real issues is lack of PRE-production testing...when fixing a problem is much cheaper.  Quality is built in normally...and not added afterwards.  But....there's a big cost trade off involved...and when you're only making several hundred of each loco (remember...there are five or six versions of the K27s sold), the non-recurring costs for testing go up fast...and raise the price of each one.  Perhaps just a focus on testing of the common parts would suffice(like the drive train)...but testing before committing to production, while wise, is expensive...and WE pay for that.

Bachmann does need to improve quality.  That's for sure.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I goofed.

My "what's the beef" was absolutely not directed to you, Mike, or any of our readers. It was, however, a rhetorical question. 
Mike's insights make sense.

My irritation is with the unfortunate consequences of Bachmann, whom I understand is dependent upon Kade' production line,  to continue to produce products that do not receive a positive  "working" evaluation prior to shipment.

This continued act is fatal to the image of Bachmann. We can all appreciate the disparate comments made by those who simply "HATE" Bachmann products for  the very reason this topic again has arisen via the K-27 foibles. Now, what about Bachmann's next loco offering? Who will buy to test? Who will wait for X to purchase and write their own evaluation? Who will simply say "Screw it!" and not purchase?

The K-27 is an outstanding model. No question. The problems, per Unca' Dave's investigation in Washington, are solvable. They were discovered by examination and running -- a methodology not employed by Kader Industries.

Is Bachmann Corp. oblivious as to the need to muscle Kader into agreement to "test" before shipment. I don't think so. Are they persuasive -- obviously not.

OK, my frustration is now usurping my sense of reality. 

I am truly angry at the simplicity in stupidity in Bachmann or Kader's not testing the Shay and K-27 before sending them out to consumers who overwhelmingly acclaim them as affordable and visually striking products! 

Wendell

 

Wendell
 
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