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Another new project here in NorthEast Pa.  This time is another (apparently) L.B.S.C. engine or at least one built using some of his design principles.  Again i can only speculate at its age, but it is old enough to have square flanges.  The running gear itself is in fairly good shape and will quietly tick over on a few pounds of air and for the most part has been nicely built.  There are a few small issues that will be dealt with once an acceptable boiler is installed.

Hopefully the boiler can be used to show some points to look for when purchasing an older engine such as this.  The first is the use of soft solder caulk.  This isn't the first engine i've seen with soft solder caulkig and I doubt it with be the last.  Soft solder was at one time an acceptable method for fixing small leaks on a boiler (and I've even seen recent boilers built, and passed,  on the other side of the pond), but I strongly feel that it has no place on even a moderate pressure boiler.

The first picture is of the front flue sheet.  The hole on the top is where the throttle piping exited.  The stud on the left is the blower staypipe and a stay rod is on the right.  Along the circumference of the flue sheet can be seen some gaps, and the darker area around the flues is where a massive buildup of soft solder ran out during the attempt to save this boiler.



Next is the typical lBSC style throttle mounted in the boiler and removed.  This is a basic 90 degree throw throttle with a sliding plate that uncovers a hole.  These throttles tend to be very touchy and usually have an "all or nothing" feel to them.  Also note more soft solder used to seal the throttle mounting screw.  A new needle valve type throttle will be installed in the new boiler for finer control.




The massively over-riveted longitudinal strap.  The running gear for the engine is visable in the background.


And one of the most important things to check, especially on a coal burner such as this.  A quick measurement was taken to find out where the crown sheet was in relation to the water glass.  This pictures shows that the bottom of the crown sheet is already over the top of the bottom nut for the water glass.  Not a good situation.



Once reboilered this should prove to be a nice running-free steaming engine, if a bit fast.  With a good load behind her she should sond good as well, The smokebox is a full 3" in diameter and 4-12" long!


I can't wait to get another piece of live steam history back and running on the rails againI
 

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RE: Rebuild & New Boiler for an Old Engine

Justin,

Most excellent! Will it be done in time for ECLSTS? I was discussing R/C in the quasi-electric-franken-steamer with Jeff today...looks like it will be interesting for sure.

If this is anything like it's sister engine, it should haul stumps and run for a long time between stokings. Can't wait to see it.
 

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RE: Rebuild & New Boiler for an Old Engine

Thanks Ryan. Doubt it will be done by then, but I hope to make a lot of progress before then. I can only hope this engine runs as well as its apparent sister, if so it will besomething to see. Also have a nother project of my own to bring (as if I didn't have enough already!). Jeff's engine will be a hoot, can't wait to see (and hear) both of ours double headed pulling a load.

Thank you too Jerry. As much as I love building and running engines, I get an added thrill out of restoring something like this. Without the skill and dedication of these mystery builders we wouldn't be enjoying the hobby we are today. Every one deserves the attention and love to keep it going and keeping the hobby strong and I consider it an honor to be able to use my talents to do so.
 

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RE: Rebuild & New Boiler for an Old Engine

So you have a riveted boiler that has been chaulked with soft solder. What is the problem? The solder does not provide any mechanical strenght in this case and this is perfectly safe. No need to raise panic when there is nothing to panic about.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
RE: Rebuild & New Boiler for an Old Engine

Havoc, with all due respect I don't think I am raising a panic. I understand that the solder is not adding any mechanical strength to the boiler itself but I cannot feel comfortable with a boiler that has a potential weak spot (for leaks to occur) built in. Also, not having any documentation with the boiler there is no way of knowing exactly what solder was used, I cannot be guarunteed that it is even of an acceptable melting point. It may have given many years of reliable service in the past, though that is doubtful due to it failing a hydro test at one of the aforementioned joints. Also, and if I am wrong somene please correct me, but I've yet to hear of anyone passing a boiler with this method of sealing over here in the states. The general application of the solder, as well, raised my hackles slightly with large globs of it being applied instead of nice smooth fillets. This may be attributed to a heavy hand on the builders' part but why take a chance?
 

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RE: Rebuild & New Boiler for an Old Engine

Tac

Justin didnt state but it is the 3.5" scale one...Hehe About the same size as his K27 pretty much HAHAA
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Work officially began tonight.  Not much progress but the shell is formed and pilot holes for the fittings drilled.



Tac and Jay, this is a gauge 1 engine, a bit of a big one though.  Coincedentally I did just buy a 3.5" gauge 'Hielan lassie'  so I can't really agree that is a scaled down version of that if for no other reason than cylinder placement.
vault1.secured-url.com/reeves2000/images/model/line_images/hielan_line.gif
The closest larger scale engine I've found (at least on Reeves' site) is called 'Doncaster', but thats already a 5" gauge design.
vault1.secured-url.com/reeves2000/images/model/line_images/doncaster_line.gif

Here's a few pics of the engine itself, one with a soda can for size reference.  Anyone have an idea what this is?






And even the family dog can't resist looking at a fine little engine like this!  (Dog not an accurate scale reference).
 

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You should have a "how to build proper copper boilers, class/book by now lol, naa, it would take away from engine shop!

Keep up the good work, it has to be fun to have one run after you put all the work into it!

Andrew...
 

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Justin,
            Hmm, The tender with bar framed bogies[trucks]  somewhat over scale bolier, 
Walschaerts gear in "all square layout"  and freelance appearance of the cab suggest an adaptation of LBSC design by a US builder..not Hielan lassie possibly an extended "Doris" 4-6-0..

                                              
 

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Hey, so I got it wrong, eh?  Please read what I wrote - 'Looks like a smaller version of the 3.5" gauge 'Hielan Lassie'.   'Like' as in 'similar to', not a replication or perfect copy of, but as in 'of similar general appearance', 'not a lot different' - OK?

Sheesh.

While we are nit-picking, I have to say, from personal experience, that with its GENERAL APPEARANCE ,especially the two-truck tender, it looks a LOT like 'Southern Maid' on the Romney Hythe & Dymchurch Railway, a 15" gauge line in Kent.

tac
www.ovgrs.org
 

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RE: Rebuild & New Boiler for an Old Engine

Tac may be more accurate in his 'nits', but my guess would be it was based on an LMS Coronation.   They had parallel boilers, and were seen without smoke deflectors.


 

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Naw. With that two-truck tender - VERY unusual in the UK on real locos, BTW, I still think that it's a model of a 15" gauge loco...such things are not uncommon here in UK.  I can't show you a piccie, due to the gweth on my computer, but have a look at the RH&D site and 'Green Goddess' and you'll see what I mean.  'Green goddess' like other locos on the RH&D, DOES actually have a two-truck tender - necessary to fuel the train on the 13-mile length of track.

This model of Mr eccentric's actually looks like a model, rather than a real loco.  

tac 
www.ovgrs.org
 

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RE: Rebuild & New Boiler for an Old Engine

Dear Mr Eccentric - you wrote - ...and I've even seen recent boilers built, and passed, on the other side of the pond...'

Bearing in mind that I am not a skilled craftsman like you, merely a dabbler in steam models, I am very interested to learn where you saw soft-soldered boilers built and passed. I built my first boiler, a small one for 'Rob Roy' in 1960, and that was brazed and silver-soldered with two grades of solder.

Apart from a rather dodgy repair to a Mamod boiler, that did not need to be certified, I have never seen a soft-soldered boiler 'built, and passed', in my life, and I was 62 last week.

We have four certified boiler testing engineers in my little group, and not a one of them has ever seen a soft-soldered boiler offered for test in the UK - and by the way, one tester builds full-size steam road locomotives, as well as 2/3, 1/2 and 1/3 scale, to the design patented by his great-grandfather in 1897.   Additionally, talking to a boiler-builder for the Gauge I Association, he remarked that he would run a mile if he saw such a thing. I'd be right there alongside him, I assure you.

If in UK, please let us know where you saw this taking place. We might be quaint and rather odd by your standards, but we ain't stoopid.

tac
Southern Federation of Model Engineers
7.25" Gauge Society
 

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Posted By tacfoley on 03/12/2008 10:58 AM
Naw. With that two-truck tender - VERY unusual in the UK on real locos, BTW, I still think that it's a model of a 15" gauge loco...such things are not uncommon here in UK.  I can't show you a piccie, due to the gweth on my computer, but have a look at the RH&D site and 'Green Goddess' and you'll see what I mean.  'Green goddess' like other locos on the RH&D, DOES actually have a two-truck tender - necessary to fuel the train on the 13-mile length of track.

This model of Mr eccentric's actually looks like a model, rather than a real loco.  

tac 
www.ovgrs.org


Tac may be right - here's a pic of Green Goddess, complete with 8-wheel tender.

 

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Justin,

Looks like you are getting some practice on a boiler about the size of one that would be needed for a K-36/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/tongue.gif
 
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