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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I'm absolutely done with rattle can paints. Too much of a headache mentally and literally.

Wait for a paint to dry.. 48 hours and then apply the same product line and its crinkle city.
i can understand not putting lacquer over enamel.. but when both paints are enamel and the under coat is fully dry?

I'm switching to water based acrylic paints and just try to be more patient. I'm done with all the solvent and propellant fumes as well. I'm gonna end up with Sarcoidosis or COPD if i keep this mess up!

Gonna have to learn how to use a airbrush properly.
 

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The only time I have had a problem with spray cans is WHEN I DON'T READ THE VERY SMALL PRINT!
Some paints say "redcoat within x number of minutes or hours"
This doesn't help if you need to sand between coats.
But more importantly, it's about the AFTER information.
I have had cans that say wait until 7 days before recoating, which I ignored as the last paint I used only said 24 hours, and I made an assumption.
So after that I made sure to read the instructions, and then even then leave it for twice the time to cure just in case.
Airbrushes are great, but the same rules apply with regards to solvents used, and type of paint.
I could never make acrylic paints work as well for me so gave up on them.
Cheers,
David
 

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. All that being said, model painting is not so much an art, but it does require understand painting and drying process and what needs to be done for every different paint, both brand and types of paint. I have been painting most of my G scale models with the Rust-Oleum X2 paints and with great results, plus I also use the Testors in the Blue/White spray cans sold at hobby shops and Hobby Lobby. I do use the Testors clears and dull coats for my final coats and that even over the Rust-Oleum X2 paints. I still use my airbrush for colors that I can't find in those paints I listed above, but I only spray with enamels and acrylic lacquers, no water acrylics paint that stuff is junk for model painting.
I normally only use primers on models that I have done work on the plastic bodies, if it just a repaint no primes is needed, metal parts I would primes for sure. First thing I do is only paint when the weather is nice and no wind as I paint all models outside, I hold the model in one hand and the other the spray can, this way I can rotate both the model and the spray can so I can see how the paint is going on, the outside light pays a big .part here and putting the model in the correct angle lets you see if the paint being applies is too thick, or to thin. Most of my models are painted in 2-3 coats, a thin tack coat, a heavier second coat, and a third coat if needed, with each coat looked at from a side angle, this tells you if your coat is going on even or now, too wet, or too thin. There is only about 10 min. per coat drying time, or should I say a tack dry time, at this time my model painted, it goes on the shelf for 24 hours and at that time it's ready for decals, or the final clear, or dull coat which ever you want as a finish product.
Many modelers think the more coats of paint the better, or more coats make the model look better, in most cases both are wrong, you want the least amount paint, just enough to cover, thick paint on models serves no purpose as we are looking not to cover up detail, but to show off all our work. A ideal sprayed model would be one with wet thin coats, this is going to take some practice as wet coats are pretty much getting ready to create runs and then you have a big mess to deal with and your painting just got several days longer. I always tell modelers that are not getting good results with there painting that they need to practice on some models, old plastic model cars work great and learn to apply paints before painting you model that you have spend many hours on and it getting messed up do to bad paint practices. I pretty much wonder why in a day or so you are putting more paint on and then you get cracking, etc., well yes you probably with have problems as these paints are not dry, it take months for this to happen, don't read what the can says, the old rule of thumbs is, if you can smell it, it's not dry. If anyone wants to contact me through this website they can, I will try to answer there question if I can.

trainman
 

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I disagree with trainman on not reading the instructions on the can. They are put there for a reason. However two subjects he left out that are just a crucial to a good paint job as the thickness of the paint is the temperature and humidity. Both of these can destroy a paint job quickly.

Humidity usually only makes paint 'blush' but other issues can arise. I live in Florida where humidity is always a concern. As soon as I finish rebuilding after Hurricane Michael one of the primary additions to my shop will be HVAC to control the environment, which will control the humidity. My paint booth will also get an overhaul with a larger exhaust fan and better filters. When painting inside a paint booth, lighting is very important, as Trainman said, you need to be able to see what you are doing. Another highly desirable item in a paint booth is a 'lazy Susan'. You can position your model in such a way as to have good access to all sides and the roof.

As I said above, read the can. Somewhere on the label will be information on ideal temperatures to apply the paint. Temperatures can vary from ideal, but expect different results. Higher temps will cause the paint to dry quicker, making it difficult to keep a wet edge to get a even coat. Temps too low will retard or even stop flash times. The danger here is applying the next coat before the previous coat has had proper tack time.

Painting our models is both a skill and an art. The skill is learning the equipment you are using and how it applies the paint....that includes rattle cans. I don't like the new rattle cans that spray upside down, there is no way to clear the nozzle of paint, and because I don't paint that often I end up tossing half full cans of paint because the nozzle is clogged. Air brushes have their own set of difficulties to be learned. How thin do you make the paint? What nozzle size do you use? What air pressure do you set the regulator at? All of these factors will affect how a paint job looks.

The art is learning how to use the paint to accentuate details and portray the look of the prototype that has weathered for decades while our model was just finished last week. Painting is not as simple as some folks would like us to believe. It is not 'Point and Shoot'.
 

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I disagree with trainman on not reading the instructions on the can. They are put there for a reason. However two subjects he left out that are just a crucial to a good paint job as the thickness of the paint is the temperature and humidity. Both of these can destroy a paint job quickly.

Humidity usually only makes paint 'blush' but other issues can arise. I live in Florida where humidity is always a concern. As soon as I finish rebuilding after Hurricane Michael one of the primary additions to my shop will be HVAC to control the environment, which will control the humidity. My paint booth will also get an overhaul with a larger exhaust fan and better filters. When painting inside a paint booth, lighting is very important, as Trainman said, you need to be able to see what you are doing. Another highly desirable item in a paint booth is a 'lazy Susan'. You can position your model in such a way as to have good access to all sides and the roof.

As I said above, read the can. Somewhere on the label will be information on ideal temperatures to apply the paint. Temperatures can vary from ideal, but expect different results. Higher temps will cause the paint to dry quicker, making it difficult to keep a wet edge to get a even coat. Temps too low will retard or even stop flash times. The danger here is applying the next coat before the previous coat has had proper tack time.

Painting our models is both a skill and an art. The skill is learning the equipment you are using and how it applies the paint....that includes rattle cans. I don't like the new rattle cans that spray upside down, there is no way to clear the nozzle of paint, and because I don't paint that often I end up tossing half full cans of paint because the nozzle is clogged. Air brushes have their own set of difficulties to be learned. How thin do you make the paint? What nozzle size do you use? What air pressure do you set the regulator at? All of these factors will affect how a paint job looks.

The art is learning how to use the paint to accentuate details and portray the look of the prototype that has weathered for decades while our model was just finished last week. Painting is not as simple as some folks would like us to believe. It is not 'Point and Shoot'.
No use talking about painting anymore, we have probably run most people off after reading our post.
I disagree with trainman on not reading the instructions on the can. They are put there for a reason. However two subjects he left out that are just a crucial to a good paint job as the thickness of the paint is the temperature and humidity. Both of these can destroy a paint job quickly.

Humidity usually only makes paint 'blush' but other issues can arise. I live in Florida where humidity is always a concern. As soon as I finish rebuilding after Hurricane Michael one of the primary additions to my shop will be HVAC to control the environment, which will control the humidity. My paint booth will also get an overhaul with a larger exhaust fan and better filters. When painting inside a paint booth, lighting is very important, as Trainman said, you need to be able to see what you are doing. Another highly desirable item in a paint booth is a 'lazy Susan'. You can position your model in such a way as to have good access to all sides and the roof.

As I said above, read the can. Somewhere on the label will be information on ideal temperatures to apply the paint. Temperatures can vary from ideal, but expect different results. Higher temps will cause the paint to dry quicker, making it difficult to keep a wet edge to get a even coat. Temps too low will retard or even stop flash times. The danger here is applying the next coat before the previous coat has had proper tack time.

Painting our models is both a skill and an art. The skill is learning the equipment you are using and how it applies the paint....that includes rattle cans. I don't like the new rattle cans that spray upside down, there is no way to clear the nozzle of paint, and because I don't paint that often I end up tossing half full cans of paint because the nozzle is clogged. Air brushes have their own set of difficulties to be learned. How thin do you make the paint? What nozzle size do you use? What air pressure do you set the regulator at? All of these factors will affect how a paint job looks.

The art is learning how to use the paint to accentuate details and portray the look of the prototype that has weathered for decades while our model was just finished last week. Painting is not as simple as some folks would like us to believe. It is not 'Point and Shoot'.
I'm not going to agree, or disagree with painting procedures, all I know is I've been painting models for 50 plus years and with very good results. Spending some 35 years as a body shop mgr. for a large DFW auto dealer gives me a good understanding of what works and what doesn't when it comes to painting. All being said, we can post all the things that are needed for proper painting, but most of it depends on your knowledge of painting processes and only you can learn through practice and hands on learning process. PS, don't let the body shop mgr. thing make you feel that was important learning process, it wasn't, I was winning model contest when I was 12 years old and I could paint very good at that time.

trainman
 

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I did not see anywhere Trainman says do not read the instructions, the closest I got was this:

I pretty much wonder why in a day or so you are putting more paint on and then you get cracking, etc., well yes you probably with have problems as these paints are not dry, it take months for this to happen, don't read what the can says, the old rule of thumbs is, if you can smell it, it's not dry

I agree, and a good rule of thumb.

There are so many posts where people have had issues, and another person did not have the same issues, and the only thing that made sense was the above.

Thanks for posting the information, the viewing the paint at an angle is something I did unconsciously, but great tip to remember.

Greg
 

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I'm absolutely done with rattle can paints. Too much of a headache mentally and literally.

Wait for a paint to dry.. 48 hours and then apply the same product line and its crinkle city.
i can understand not putting lacquer over enamel.. but when both paints are enamel and the under coat is fully dry?

I'm switching to water based acrylic paints and just try to be more patient. I'm done with all the solvent and propellant fumes as well. I'm gonna end up with Sarcoidosis or COPD if i keep this mess up!

Gonna have to learn how to use a airbrush properly.
Hello,
I absolutely agree with your frustration. I have also tried the acrylic and some times it has worked out alright, but not always. What I have recently found that works well (albeit a rattle can) is Sabotaz spray paints. The Troop Sleeper posting I recently added was painted with this spray paint. The cans are high pressure, however the are five different spray nozzles you can get which allows variations on the paint deposit. Initially I had a course nozzle and then repainted with a fine nozzle which (I think) worked out alright. I should add that I used my last two cans of Testors Dull Coat to finish them. I have since purchased a (rattle) can of Krylon UV Archival Varnish Matte, which I will test to see if it will be a substitute for the Dull Coat. The Sabotaz is available at DeSerres in Canada.
It can be frustrating at times, but don't give up, you can do it.
Cheers.
 

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There are going to be those who understand the paint process and those who don't, for those who don't I would like to say that practice will make you a better painter, but as long as you keep doing it the wrong way your never going to get good results spray painting. Spray painting is an art and understanding paint, paint application, weather and how it effects the application process, drying times, when to recoat, when to apply more pant and when not to are all things that need to be done in the application paint process. I can tell you that more paint is not the answer, it just opens up another bag of worms and most of the problems that you are having is the person spraying the paint, not the paint. I wish I could show and tell you what to do on this forum, but learning to paint is a hands on thing and I don't see where it can be put in print where you can learn from reading it. I'm not trying to offend anyone here, but like I said, there is much more that just pointing the spray can and spraying and hoping to get good results, it don't work that way without paint knowledge.

trainman
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I agree with what everyone is saying. but I agree with what you are saying.. its just that the cheep rattle can paints can be so inconsistent,, that sometimes what method worked one way at one time.. doesn't work the same with the next can. it is an art form for sure.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
This black Krylon Fusion for plastics was allowed to dry two weeks befor applying Krylon clear flat. Yeah im pretty much done with the High VOC rattle cans.
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You have too much paint on the model and what is underneath is still not dry. It's like what the say, "If you always do what you always did, you always get what you always got". I've watched this paint job from start to finish on this forum and every coat looks like it's three, or four coats at that rate by the time you got to this point it probably 6-8 coats of paint. I can tell you, it's most likely not the paint, I use it all the time with good results, I mix brands, all the time and most spray can paint is all the same, except for water base paints, I don't even know if those paints are in spray cans. Like I said in a past post, I don't normally read the instructions and that's mainly because instructions are for those who apply the paint correctly and too much and too many coats those instructions are worthless. Sorry for your misfortune's, I know you have done a nice job so far and getting the paint to mess up is very disappointing, I know it's happened to me. On thing is I never use clears in the Krylon/Rust-Oleum spray cans, there too thick of a coverage and paint underneath still not being dry the paint will cause the paint to lift as the new paint will cause the paint under it to reflow and activate it again. I do use Testors model paint, either clear coat or dull coat which ever I need at the time, yes I spray this over rattle can paints, these clears do dry very fast which in most cases will not cause the paint underneath to reflow and cause lift.

trainman
 

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Discussion Starter #12
I would agree but, There are only two layers of paint on this top area both Krylon white and black. both over two weeks drying time. its just not worth all the VOCs
 

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Old noob,
Just curious. What stock number is the krylon clear that you used?
 

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I would agree but, There are only two layers of paint on this top area both Krylon white and black. both over two weeks drying time. its just not worth all the VOCs
It's not dry, otherwise in most cases it would not have cracked, lifted, etc. There is no use trying to tell rattle can painters that this paint may still be wet underneath, you have posted enough pics of paint upon paint, I can see why you get the results that you get. Like I also said, don't use Krylon/Rust-Oleum clears, or satin clears, they go on too thick and reactivate the paint underneath it, which is still not dry. I use Testors clear/dull coat in the blue/white spray can sold at hobby ships, or Hobby Lobby. I think I've addressed this so much if you don't get the too much paint thing and not dry underneath yet, then you best reconsider paint and getting good results. I think this is a good case to just stop painting, put the model together and run it, and when summer comes maybe with a little luck you can put your final coat on and that may be touchy to do. I myself would strip off all the paint and start over and on plastic that can be a big mess. I don't remember how you painted this model for Santa Fe, but I would have used white primer, then painted the model a light coat of yellow, then taped off the yellow and painted a light coat of blue. Now your ready for decal, etc., used Testors Glosscoat over the decals, no need to paint the whole engine here, then a light coat of Testors Dullcoat on the engine. One reason for using testors is it does dry fast and does not reactivate the paint underneath, that is if you used light coats on the yellow and blue. I can repaint my engines and rolling stock with decals in 3-4 days and be done with it. Most model painters from reading what I see when they have problems just think let it dry for a week, or so and put on more paint, big mistake. I've never been a professional painter, but I was a Body Shop Mgr. for 35 plus years at a large DFW GM dealer and had 30 plus employees that I managed, so I can say I know a little about painting and painting vehicles, or models, paint is paint.

trainman
 

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It's not dry, otherwise in most cases it would not have cracked, lifted, etc. There is no use trying to tell rattle can painters that this paint may still be wet underneath, you have posted enough pics of paint upon paint, I can see why you get the results that you get. Like I also said, don't use Krylon/Rust-Oleum clears, or satin clears, they go on too thick and reactivate the paint underneath it, which is still not dry. I use Testors clear/dull coat in the blue/white spray can sold at hobby ships, or Hobby Lobby. I think I've addressed this so much if you don't get the too much paint thing and not dry underneath yet, then you best reconsider paint and getting good results. I think this is a good case to just stop painting, put the model together and run it, and when summer comes maybe with a little luck you can put your final coat on and that may be touchy to do. I myself would strip off all the paint and start over and on plastic that can be a big mess. I don't remember how you painted this model for Santa Fe, but I would have used white primer, then painted the model a light coat of yellow, then taped off the yellow and painted a light coat of blue. Now your ready for decal, etc., used Testors Glosscoat over the decals, no need to paint the whole engine here, then a light coat of Testors Dullcoat on the engine. One reason for using testors is it does dry fast and does not reactivate the paint underneath, that is if you used light coats on the yellow and blue. I can repaint my engines and rolling stock with decals in 3-4 days and be done with it. Most model painters from reading what I see when they have problems just think let it dry for a week, or so and put on more paint, big mistake. I've never been a professional painter, but I was a Body Shop Mgr. for 35 plus years at a large DFW GM dealer and had 30 plus employees that I managed, so I can say I know a little about painting and painting vehicles, or models, paint is paint.

trainman
I understand that Testors stopped production three years ago.
Cheers.
 

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I understand that Testors stopped production three years ago.
Cheers.
Testors I have heard the same thing, but I get my Testors at Hobby Lobby and they are always getting there reorders and there shelves restocked weekly. I do know Testors want to faze out there enamels in the small bottles with the red stripe on them, but like I said, I've had no problem getting them. I also use Textors in the Blue/White spray cans, this paint is acrylic lacquer and they are always avaibile also.

trainman
 

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I was painting outside with a rattle can today. Got a perfect finish and a gust of wind blows my drop cloth up and lands it on the model. Bummer. Now I have to wait 3 days to resand.
 

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Has happened to me to, plus I have dropped the model on the ground and gotten dirt, etc. which is a mess to. Being a model painter to some 60 plus years I have actually taken a saturated thinner rag and wiped with parallel strokes, I wipe the bad spot wile the paint is wet and them come back after wiping and sprayed paint just in that area. Paint does have the ability to re-flow and will pretty much blend back with the other paint as it dries, plus as you know paint does dry thinner and the detail underneath do become more apparent. I do find using Testors clear coats both gloss and dull will hide most of these imperfections. This can be a hit and miss thing, I will say that most of the time it works as re-sanding and re-coating has its problems that can come up, it's a drying thing as we all know. trainman
 
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