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Discussion Starter #21
Posted By aceinspp on 10 Jan 2011 05:26 PM
Jerry I move from the Chicago area in 72 to go to work for the MoPac. I loved going into Chicago and seeing all the trolleys and buses and then when the CTA took over riding the L. Lots of memories when I did live there. As you also said yours may not be run either. I agree it's part of an era and I will look back every time I look at the car. Later RJD

Hi RJ,

I cannot remember ever riding a train in the USA except for many years later riding tourist trains (but I often rode trains when I was stationed in England).

On the other hand every day going to school in Chicago involved riding the Blue Bird bus from Hillside to Maywood where I took a CTA bus to the CTA Congress "L" and that to Halstead where I am pretty sure it was a CTA Trolley Bus I then got to school on.

Since non-rail surface transportation is not very practical to model that leaves rail surface transportation as a very good prospect for expanding our hobby (in my opinion). The downside/challenge would be the quantity of buildings, people and vehicles needed to create an urban environment.

It would be interesting to see how successful it would be if someone came up with a relatively inexpensive multi-fronted block of building as is common in every city.

I think a lot of the success of Lionel and American Flyer was attributable to the inexpensive Plasticville buildings.

Jerry
 

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"I think a lot of the success of Lionel and American Flyer was attributable to the inexpensive Plasticville buildings."

Jerry;

That and the fact that they disassembled easily and stored away flat in their original boxes until the next Christmas season. Bachmann tried to do something similar with large scale buildings made from a Masonite-like material about ten or more years ago. They were a flop. I'm not sure why. They may have been too pricy for the public's perceived value, or they may have been too heavy (or brittle).

The hobby store where I help out for the holidays now stocks only a very few Plasticville or similar O & S kit buildings. People want them already assembled. (That bemuses me as well. If one were to trip while carrying a Plasticville kit, it would practically assemble itself on the way to the floor!)



As for inexpensive, well, no more. I paid $12.00 for the church in this photo. It was still in its original box. The box has a 98 cents original price rubber stamped on it!

Have fun,
David Meashey
 

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Discussion Starter #23
Posted By Dave Meashey on 11 Jan 2011 08:33 AM
That and the fact that they disassembled easily and stored away flat in their original boxes until the next Christmas season.Have fun,
David Meashey


Sometimes I think there is too much emphasis in G Gauge on highly detailed prototypical layouts and not nearly enough attention paid to those of us who simply lay track on the floor or on a table or other simple indoor layout.

Like everyone else I love to see those fantastic layouts but many people I know who run large scale trains make no effort to have realistic layouts. They just want to see a train running around their layout whether the layout is on the floor, around the Christmas Tree, in the basement or outside.

My original layout consisted of track laid on bare plywood (outside) with bird houses for buildings. I tend to prefer quantity over quality in that I'd rather have a lot of cheap buildings rather than to have (or build) a few very nice ones. Often the solution was to buy used track and buildings and as the layouts grew to upgrade from the bird houses to nicer ones.

Its all about what we individually enjoy and can afford.

Jerry
 

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Well since i cannot aford a lgb street car i will be ordering the mbta trolley tomorrow hope they are in stock.One question will they run on 4ft lgb curve track. Thanks for any help.
 

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Discussion Starter #25
Posted By pete on 11 Jan 2011 03:48 PM
Well since i cannot aford a lgb street car i will be ordering the mbta trolley tomorrow hope they are in stock.One question will they run on 4ft lgb curve track. Thanks for any help.

Hi Pete,

I will be VERY surprised if they will not run on 4' diameter curves. Mine should be here very soon (perhaps tomorrow) and I will find out for sure then and let you know.

Jerry
 

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These cars where designed to operate on smaller diameter curves so no problems. Later RJD
 

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Thanks for the reply to my question. I learned a lesson a few years ago as to what will and what will not run on 4ft curves. It was a costly lesson one i hope not to repeat. Thanks again.
 

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Greg yes i have seen the video and nick said that it will run on the r1 curve track. Will be ordering one today. We would like to get a lgb new orleans street car but we can,t afford one. But maybe some day.
 

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Posted By pete on 11 Jan 2011 03:48 PM
Well since i cannot aford a lgb street car i will be ordering the mbta trolley tomorrow hope they are in stock.One question will they run on 4ft lgb curve track. Thanks for any help.
Hi, Pete - I know that the answer about the 4' diameter curves has been answered but I thought I would add my observations:

1. The trolley had no trouble on 4' diameter curves.
2. It does slow down quite a bit at low speeds when in the curve due to increased drag
3. When in the curve the back of the trolley extends just under 1.5" from the outside rail - the front of the trolley extends just over 1.5"
4. The trolley will run on straight track on as little as 4 volts (track power) - at that voltage the lights are not on
5. It will make it all the way around an oval with 4' curves at 6 volts - again, it slows in the curves but does not stop - the speed is barely a crawl - about 1/2 foot / second.
6. At 6 volts the trolley is drawing about 0.5 amps on curves and 0.25 amps on straight track. Much of the power on the straights is being consumed by the 20+ LEDs.

7. I put an Eggliner on the track with the trolley and it is MUCH faster - my estimate is that it is twice as fast.

dave
 

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Discussion Starter #33
I'm not sure why the delay but I checked my bank statement online and St. Aubin's charged my credit card 1-6-10 (a week ago) and the CTA Trolleys I ordered have not arrived yet. Perhaps the delay is due to the unusually bad weather we have been having. I'm not concerned since its been a couple of years since I put deposits down when I ordered the trolleys and with 4" of snow (very unusual for Arkansas) I won't be running them outside anytime soon. They will probably spend most or all of their time on the crawl space layout which has not been used for some time.

I'll post some info about them when they get here. Hopefully they will arrive today.

Jerry
 

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Discussion Starter #34
I phoned St. Aubin's and they did not actually receive the trolleys until last week and mine were shipped yesterday so they should get here sometime next week.

Jerry
 

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Discussion Starter #35
Posted By pete on 11 Jan 2011 07:38 PM
Thanks for the reply to my question. I learned a lesson a few years ago as to what will and what will not run on 4ft curves. It was a costly lesson one i hope not to repeat. Thanks again.

Hi Pete,

This was posted on the Aristo-Craft Forum (where I got the PCC photos):

"I wanted to ask, is there a minimum radius for these? I'm thinking of a plan, but need to know if they will run on 4' diameter curves......

Thanks in advance,


Dave"

"The PCC will run around the 24 inch diameter curve. However, it would be better to use the 30 inch diameter.

__________________
John Mikesh
Product Manager"

http://www.aristocraft.com/vbulleti...hp?t=16964

Jerry
 

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Posted By pete on 11 Jan 2011 07:38 PM
Thanks for the reply to my question. I learned a lesson a few years ago as to what will and what will not run on 4ft curves. It was a costly lesson one i hope not to repeat. Thanks again.
Pete,

Check out Nicks thread, the car is running on
R-1 track how cool is that. Looks like so far, he's
the only one to have one running on such tight curves.
Check out Nicks thread, lots of good info there.

He's even installing sound with a speaker.
How cool is that!

These are a neat car, I just need to wait to see if
they run good over the long term before i buy one.

Fred
 

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Yep, need to see if the wobbly wheels are common. So far Nick's and Dave Bodnar's videos both show runout and another person has commented he has the same situation.

Greg
 

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Discussion Starter #38
The following (posted by Lewis Polk on the Aristo Forum) explains the thinking behind the design of the PCC Trolleys. It may answer some questions that have come up.

http://www.aristocraft.com/vbulleti...hp?t=16991

Dear Dave,

Thorough and careful review as always. It was all a tight fit even down to the pins that are low profile and not easily found. We did not include a speaker as electrics really didn't make any sounds and it would have been another tight fit. I'm sure that those that want the bell sound can find a small speaker to make this happen.

It is designed directly from the President's Commission initial drawings and is as accurate as we could make it. The die cast chassis was a challenge too as we had to make sure the wheels did not touch the chassis on tight curves and cause a short. The interior was taken from photos at a trolley museum in Connecticut and we made that detailed and accurate too.

Even the gear box was complicated to keep the low profile of the original and yet have the motor in the gear box. Yes, the PIC chip is programmed to bring on the brake lights when voltage drops by 20% indicating a slow down of the trolley.

It was a challenge unlike any other project we've done, but the results are well worth it.

All the best,
Lewis Polk



In my case the actual Chicago CTA Trolleys were quite different from the Aristo PCC trolley design (perhaps why Aristo did not include them in their regular PCC product line) but I'll be happy with the St. Aubin's versions as it would make no sense for Aristo to have a completely different mold just to match the CTA Trolleys.

According to Wikipedia:

It turned out that the PCC streetcar was a very good design. The standard car was 46 ft (14.0 m) long and 100 in (2.54 m) wide with later models 46.5 ft (14.2 m) long and 108 in (2.74 m) wide.[citation needed] Chicago, Detroit, Illinois Terminal, Pacific Electric, and San Francisco had longer cars, as long as 50.5 ft (15.4 m).

I guess Chicago used that extra length to put the main exit doors at the rear with mid-length doors as well.

Jerry
 

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Discussion Starter #39
Posted By dbodnar on 12 Jan 2011 09:53 AM


1. The trolley had no trouble on 4' diameter curves.
2. It does slow down quite a bit at low speeds when in the curve due to increased drag

4. The trolley will run on straight track on as little as 4 volts (track power) - at that voltage the lights are not on

5. It will make it all the way around an oval with 4' curves at 6 volts - again, it slows in the curves but does not stop - the speed is barely a crawl - about 1/2 foot / second.

6. At 6 volts the trolley is drawing about 0.5 amps on curves and 0.25 amps on straight track. Much of the power on the straights is being consumed by the 20+ LEDs.


dave




My concern here would be the friction between the wheels of the trolley and the inside head of the track and perhaps a potential for splitting a switch (due to the wheels pushing against the outside rail and the points and frog of the turnout).

I once bought some brass track that had been heavily used. The straight track shows little wear but on the curve track the inside head was worn completely away. This was an extreme situation where the track had been very heavily used.

While I would not expect a similar problem with normal use of the Aristo trolleys the fact remains that the wheels (probably steel) may cause extra wear of the rail's inside head on 4' diameter curves.

That may be what John was referring to when he said The PCC will run around the 24 inch diameter curve. However, it would be better to use the 30 inch diameter.[/b]

Then too if stainless steel track is used the extra hardness would probably resolve the wear issue (if it is an issue).

Dave's observations show that there is a significant increase in friction on tight curves - which is to be expected. There would be less friction with 30" diameter curves but I have no idea how much less friction. Part of the friction (and potential for problems on sharp curves) may depend on how easily the trucks swing (rotate). On some locos and cars the trucks swing freely while on others the wires, method of attachment etc. cause various degrees of resistance to rotation.

Since the trolleys are brand new it will take more experience over time to really know how important the 30 inch diameter recommendation is.

In my case I will be running my trolleys on 4' and 5' curves but I will probably not be running them enough for me to be concerned about anything.

Jerry
 

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Posted By Jerrys RR on 13 Jan 2011 01:53 PM
The following (posted by Lewis Polk on the Aristo Forum) explains the thinking behind the design of the PCC Trolleys. It may answer some questions that have come up.

http://www.aristocraft.com/vbulleti...hp?t=16991

Dear Dave,

Thorough and careful review as always. It was all a tight fit even down to the pins that are low profile and not easily found. We did not include a speaker as electrics really didn't make any sounds . . .

Lewis obviously was never around a PCC running on corrugated rail that had been set in concrete!
 
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