G Scale Model Train Forum banner

1 - 18 of 18 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
926 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Because my cousin lives nearby (thankfully he's vacationing in Florida) and because I'm from those parts, I was saddened and a bit shook up by the news of the Continetal Arlines commuter plane crash in Clarence Center. I feel really bad for the families of those aboard, and hope the good Lord takes care of those who perished. But some people in our country don't share the same sentiments.

While reading the CBS News account of the crash I scrolled down to the "Comments" section and was appalled and angered by some of the responses. The first poster, who wrote, "first birds, now a mecacnical (his spelling) problem," said terrosists were rejoicing. He ended by wishing all a Happy Valentines Day.

Another said "Dang Muslims," which prompted other nutballs to post equally inane messages.

In the midst if these comments, someone put up an add for match making.

Who are these people? And what's wrong with this country?

BTW, the only sane, and informative post was from someone who said Dash 8s are susceptible to icing, a distinct possibility, since it was sleeting and raining at the time.

RIP.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,434 Posts
So far, no one I knew was on the flight, and to my knowledge I did not know anyone from that area of Buffalo. However my first thought was that it would be a similar flight my mother would return to the area in from England. Happily she's not returning until May at this point.

My prayers go out to everyone affected by this though. It bring this type of worldwide spotlight to our area for a bit. Sadly.

Chas
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,093 Posts
The damn news is helping this along...asking questions like "How do you know a terrorist didn't bring the plane down". Talk about irresponsible actions...woof.

Sure looks like an icing issue...the plane was upside down at impact. Looks like it stalled.

On a more personal note, one of the passengers was the son of my son-in-laws boss. Things are pretty sad at my son-in-law's business today. It's a small world folks.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,521 Posts
They interviewed an eyewitness who saw it come down--he say it didn't sound right. That plus the fact they are saying there was no communications makes me think it was some sort of total power/electrical failure.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,093 Posts
Well...when a plane at 1500' in a landing pattern ices up, the pillot would have been been applying more power to keep the plane flying, which makes the plane sound different...especially prop planes. When an iced up plane stalls, one wing drops...fast...and the plane rolls over on it's back and heads almost straight down. From 1500', it would take only a few seconds to impact the ground. There's no time to communicate. There's no time to do anything...
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,521 Posts
That makes sense Mike..sounds right to me. Those planes have a reputation for being very reliable so mechanical/electrical failure is a low probability. It's amazing how a little ice can affect lift eh?

Keith
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,716 Posts
Sounds like a stall-spin accident to me. Terrible.

Awful how quick people are to jump on a scapegoat.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
926 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
Yep, Mike, stall/spin sounds right. Based on my limited flying experience (80 hours), and on everything I was taught and subsequently read over the years, makes it appear to be just what you said. I'm so sorry this tragedy had a personal note for you--I mean about the son of your son-in-law's boss.

As a frequent visitor to the area I know exactly where Clarence Center is because I photographed and measured two, centuries-old buildings right at the crossroads that mark the heart of town. Well, not so much a town as a bunch of homes around a nucleus of a few stores, restaurants, etc. The NYC Peanut Line ran through there and the old right of way is now a swell bikeway, which we've used.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,297 Posts
Apparently the pilots were discussung icing issues on the wings, right before they lowered the gear, when they did the plane went into a series of violent pitch and rolls before crashing. Evidence is pointing to ice, but the de-icing switch was on, whther it was working has not been determined yet.
 

·
A Steamed Elder
Joined
·
3,857 Posts
There is sad irony to this crash.

Beverly Eckert[/b]
Eckert was the widow of September 11 victim Sean Rooney, who died in the World Trade Center.
After the 2001 terrorist attacks, Eckert co-founded Voices of September 11, an advocacy group for survivors and September 11 families. She had a reputation as a strong campaigner of September 11 families. She was involved in protests leading to more land for a ground zero memorial, working on the September 11 Commission's Family Steering Committee and pushing for a victims' families compensation fund.
A resident of Connecticut, Eckert was traveling to Buffalo for a weekend celebration of what would have been her husband's 58th birthday

Just one of the victims of this accident.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,093 Posts
There's a lot of focus on the de-icing boots...which are effective gizmos in icing conditions...for flying. BUT....if a plane gets a coat of ice on it, even if the leading edges of the wings are deiced, it's still a whole lot heavier. Now, when landing a plane, two things have to happen...you have to slow down to land, and you must deploy drag inducing devices....flaps and/or landing gear.

Well, if you don't keep up the speed to account for the added weight of the ice...or the added drag of the gear or flaps, you stall.

It sounds like this is what happened...not enough speed for the extra weight and drag. The news reports say that the plane became unstable after the flaps were deployed...which means it was going too slow for the weight/drag configuration present. Ice also upsets the balance of the plane...and CG shifts can dramatically cause a plane to stall when the flaps are deployed or the gear is put down.

(By the way...all that focus is on the de-icing boots because the idiots that they hire as newscasters BELIEVE they de-ice the whole freaking plane from what I watched on TV. They're idiots....)
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
4,961 Posts
In fairness to the newscasters, they're (we're) not experts on everything, and have to rely on what the experts tell us. Sometimes we get it right, sometimes not. Trust me--the e-mail lights up with corrections.

BTW, the best visual explanation I saw was on CNN, with one of their guys blowing over a piece of paper to explain lift and how ice on the leading edge affects it. Simple, but tremendously effective.

Later,

K
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
383 Posts
Flying home from Montreal via Chicago on Friday was a bit disconcerting...
Damn cold (12F, but thankfully clear) coming out of YUL, and 30F from Chicago, (turning inclement just prior to departure), but no issues.
(have never liked flying in planes with flexible de-cing boots when in areas where weather is a concern.)
Had been in meetings all week with folks from Bombardier, and the general mood on Friday was very somber. Many thoughts about the people involved.

Glad to be home.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
107 Posts
Posted By joe rusz on 02/13/2009 12:41 AM

While reading the CBS News account of the crash I scrolled down to the "Comments" section and was appalled and angered by some of the responses.


Who are these people? And what's wrong with this country?

BTW, the only sane, and informative post was from someone who said Dash 8s are susceptible to icing, a distinct possibility, since it was sleeting and raining at the time.

RIP.


Having been on both sides of the news as a firefighter and paramedic, I've learned not to read the comments in online news stories. No good comes of them. There's nothing you can do to forestall people from expressing their ignorance in print (text.)

We paid a lot of attention to the news as this is my wife's hometown, and we have friends less than two blocks from the crash site. Thankfully they were shaken but unhurt.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,901 Posts
Here in Rochester (only an hour away) I heard NOTHING, not a peep, not a hint, not even a whisper, about terrorism..
it was all about the ice from the very start..thats from local and national TV networks, and the local newspaper..

looks like in this case, you only got the nutjobs on the internet comments..which isnt surprising..
so I just wanted to stick up for the real newscasters..no one ever mentioned terrorism at all..it was never even considered..
never even remotely hinted at..
I never even heard it mentioned until I read this thread, 2 days after the event..

Scot
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
926 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
James, given that Clarence Center was your wife's home town (or is it Buffalo?), I should mention that I guessed wrong about its population. According the the paper, it's 1800. It's a terrifc little place, with a couple of coffee shops and a small restuarant (I think) that we visit when we're their. BTW, there's also Clarence, which, though part of the same township, is the actual town where the city hall and a lot of other stuff is. It's mostly along Main Steet (Route 5? Or is it 20?) and is of substantial size. Both areas date back to the 1700s, I believe.

The latest news on TV and on the web is that the plane was on autopilot almost up to the crash and (according to a post I read on Google) may have been trying to trim itself out (hence the excessive pitch and roll--up to 105 degrees!) when it flat-spun and pancaked in.

What is it about human nature that in view of such tragedy so many of us including me, are fascinated with the details of disaster? My bad.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,093 Posts
Posted By Scottychaos on 02/15/2009 8:42 PM
Here in Rochester (only an hour away) I heard NOTHING, not a peep, not a hint, not even a whisper, about terrorism..
it was all about the ice from the very start..thats from local and national TV networks, and the local newspaper..

looks like in this case, you only got the nutjobs on the internet comments..which isnt surprising..
so I just wanted to stick up for the real newscasters..no one ever mentioned terrorism at all..it was never even considered..
never even remotely hinted at..
I never even heard it mentioned until I read this thread, 2 days after the event..

Scot


I watched it live on CNN or Headline News. All the news channels were covering the crash at that time.

It happened during the morning briefing to the press the morning after the crash. Present was the local police chief, the local fire chief, an NTSB guy, and an FBI agent on the podium. After some remarks by the police chief, fire chief, and NTSB guys...who siad virtually nothing of significance, the floor was opened to questions by the reporters. Virtually ALL the questions were addressed to the FBI agent regarding whether this was a terrorist attack on the plane...reporter after reporter. Clearly, the questioning made the FBI agent uncomfortable and he kept saying they had no evidence of a terrorist attack. This went on for at least 10 minutes. I felt it was like a feeding frenzy by the reporters trying to get a scoop.
 
1 - 18 of 18 Posts
Top