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Discussion Starter #1
Well , I received them 2x lefties and 1x rightie.

Spent an hour examining them then went to Greg's site and looked up his comments:

What he reports is indeed a fact. The belly construction on these switches is simply not meant for outdoor use. Pure and simple, black and white. No questions asked.


So went to Canadian Tire and picked up some Armour All for the plastic, Permatek dielectric grease for the microswitch metallics and a tube of good ole fashions silicone.

The wiring is way too light and I will probably need to change it out. As for the frog, too early to tell. Just may need Train Li's insert however we will see.


My biggest concern is the microswitch so I first coated the metallics with the Permatek, then douced the rest of the switch in silicone. I also siliconed the wire/ screws using q-tips. When the silicone cures, I will coat everything with Permatek which should fill in any missed spots.


The viscosity of the Permatek grease is such that it permits switch operation easily.


With time, I will rewire and eliminate the issues.

And I need some more #6's and yes I will be ordering USAT.


My two cents

gg
 

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GG if you have followed the past post on this switch you will be wise to put the frog inserts in. If you don't then you will destroy the frog wing rails. Later RJD
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Posted By aceinspp on 03/22/2009 5:57 PM
GG if you have followed the past post on this switch you will be wise to put the frog inserts in. If you don't then you will destroy the frog wing rails. Later RJD




no did not follow in detail and with my tail between my legs I will contact my buddy at Train Li for the solution... Thanks for the pointer.....

gg
 

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Gavin, the last couple of pictures on my #6 page show the inserts. Besides eliminating the wear, you will find that cars run through the switches much more smoothly, and quietly.

Regards, Greg
 

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Can you believe this:

When I asked price from my distributor re Aristo Vs USAT.... USAT was $6 cheaper...


Stupid me. [/b]

My thoughts . Aristo #6 switches have an OK "belly" for light duty, low amp and indoor operations. However given the risk for shorts I would not consider this switch even for indoor service. Very least restrict the use of the switch to a ceramic floor... fire proof. And they need to get a handle on the frog bit. Why is Train Li selling retrofits?????????????????????????????


Is Aristo trying to flog this switch for outdoor service and in writing????


They need to wake up. I am not an expert in switches however, my inspection and input from others says that basic improvements on this product would really help. I question the QA and testing of the product prior to release.


Now... the dangerous question... is this QA/QC problem an issue across the whole Aristo product platform? My question is VERY legitimate here. At this time my Aristo inventory is limited to 3x #6 switches, 2x R1 switches and 2x rolling stock with plastic wheels, one of which has been designated as the "film" car.


Lesson well learned. However this type of mistake makes me dangerous when it comes to advice.


gg
 

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GG, Before you buy more than one USAT #6 switches, you better get just one and check it out also. The wiring underthem is so small that on my friends layout every wire melted in all 15 of his USAT switches.
 

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To Rex
Good thing some don't need those pesky wires. But look in any G loco how small the wires are. but look at the ones that come from the power pack to the controler. Does not make since???``
But, look at your house wire and the wires that feed them
 

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Gavin, in my opinion, the wires are too thin under both brands of switches. The aristo has a 2.5 or 3 amp polyfuse. I make external jumpers of 14 gauge wire, and stop worrying about those wires.

The problems I cannot fix with the stock components is the microswitch, it cannot be adjusted, it has no room for a waterproof boot, etc.

The power switching in the USAT is somewhat better, but might not be suitable for long term use outdoors.

But the frog in the USAT switch appears to be much better designed, and also is all brass, not plated pot metal.

I run SS so I am stuck with Aristo, if I ran brass, my #6s would be all USAT.

With the new frogs, the Aristo Wide Radius switches are fine, in my opinion, after shimming the guardrails.

Regards, Greg
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Posted By Santafe 2343 on 03/22/2009 7:23 PM
GG, Before you buy more than one USAT #6 switches, you better get just one and check it out also. The wiring underthem is so small that on my friends layout every wire melted in all 15 of his USAT switches.






Santafe, very interesting. AND I really do appreciate your candid response. Thank you.. !


I hopefully will be speaking with Axel tomorrow.


I have taken off the gloves. I need a product that can handle the outdoors, not some modified and glib indoor product with latent defects. If I need to re-engineer store bought product then I EXPECT to pay a price that reflects the lack of engineering for the application.


WOOF....


gg
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Posted By Greg Elmassian on 03/22/2009 7:50 PM
Gavin, in my opinion, the wires are too thin under both brands of switches. The aristo has a 2.5 or 3 amp polyfuse. I make external jumpers of 14 gauge wire, and stop worrying about those wires.

The problems I cannot fix with the stock components is the microswitch, it cannot be adjusted, it has no room for a waterproof boot, etc.

The power switching in the USAT is somewhat better, but might not be suitable for long term use outdoors.

But the frog in the USAT switch appears to be much better designed, and also is all brass, not plated pot metal.

I run SS so I am stuck with Aristo, if I ran brass, my #6s would be all USAT.

With the new frogs, the Aristo Wide Radius switches are fine, in my opinion, after shimming the guardrails.

Regards, Greg




Agreed,

I am tempted to completely pull the micro switch from the belly and make it a side item that is totally water proof.


Amazing, we pay top dollar for product that should be suitable for the application. Yet no... we don't get the product to spec... and then... the Manufacturer offers a retrofit at a COST... ohhh.

Amazing, in my business, I would not have any customers left with that type of attitude.


I go back to one of my earlier questions: Is Aristo flogging this product for outdoor service???? If there is any reference in any type of literature or web material, then they have an issue that they need to address.


gg
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Posted By Santafe 2343 on 03/22/2009 7:23 PM
GG, Before you buy more than one USAT #6 switches, you better get just one and check it out also. The wiring underthem is so small that on my friends layout every wire melted in all 15 of his USAT switches.






fire risk.. beware
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Posted By Greg Elmassian on 03/22/2009 7:50 PM
Gavin, in my opinion, the wires are too thin under both brands of switches. The aristo has a 2.5 or 3 amp polyfuse. I make external jumpers of 14 gauge wire, and stop worrying about those wires.

The problems I cannot fix with the stock components is the microswitch, it cannot be adjusted, it has no room for a waterproof boot, etc.

The power switching in the USAT is somewhat better, but might not be suitable for long term use outdoors.

But the frog in the USAT switch appears to be much better designed, and also is all brass, not plated pot metal.

I run SS so I am stuck with Aristo, if I ran brass, my #6s would be all USAT.

With the new frogs, the Aristo Wide Radius switches are fine, in my opinion, after shimming the guardrails.

Regards, Greg





HELLO ????????????????????????????????????????

To quote: "Aristo Wide Radius Switches are fine, in my opinion, after shimming the guardrails."


New and out of the box, is this correct?


Analogy: I buy a new car ... out of the dealership I need to rebore the engine so that I can get proper operation. The dealership says "Get over it, you were stupid enough to make the purchase to start off with... "


HELLO ?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????


gg
 

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Sorry, brain f**t....

After putting in the new frogs... the newest WR switches come with the new frogs. that and the gruardrail flangeway width were the 2 biggest problems. So, assuming NEW WR switches, you need only shim the guardrails... the wiring underneath is junk also, but you do not have a live frog and a microswitch.

If you silicon all the wires underneath, they will hold together, although I am of the opinion the wires are too light in gauge.

Regards, Greg
 

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When I installed some wide radius switches 6 years ago they where silicone on the under side to protect the wiring. After removing some to install the replacement frogs the wiring was was new as the day they where installed. I have had no problems with the wiring burning up. Moisture and electricity do not mix in my book. Keep it dry and your fine. Later RJD
 

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GG,
I ahve to laugh at your analogy between the LS trains we all love to hate and the automotive insudtry which HAs alienated us because we NEED to change most things ona car to suit us. VERY few folks leave there cars alone as they got them from the dealership. Heck even teh dealerships add things. Diefferent rims & tires, pinstriping, seat covers, different radios or DVD systems now, or mud flaps or towing packages or whatever. The LAST new truck I bought had a defective horn button design that I had in the dealership at least 5 times to repair until I finally fixed it myself after the limited 30 day warranty was up. The coat hook was in a corner of the cab where you could not hang your suit coat on a hanger. The Tailgate hinges were such that you could not remove the gate without special tools that you could not purchase as a "consumer" so to take it off you HAD to go see the dealship. Of course the guys that would "steal" your tailgate had that tool (Hmmm?) then there was the weather "proof" lock on the spare tire that was rusted completely solid when I got a flat tire. The poorly designed reinforcements on the bed cross members that collected all the road crud and rusted out before the truck was even paid for! (sigh)

Sorry. HAD to vent.

chas
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Posted By wchasr on 03/24/2009 7:01 AM
GG,
I ahve to laugh at your analogy between the LS trains we all love to hate and the automotive insudtry which HAs alienated us because we NEED to change most things ona car to suit us. VERY few folks leave there cars alone as they got them from the dealership. Heck even teh dealerships add things. Diefferent rims & tires, pinstriping, seat covers, different radios or DVD systems now, or mud flaps or towing packages or whatever. The LAST new truck I bought had a defective horn button design that I had in the dealership at least 5 times to repair until I finally fixed it myself after the limited 30 day warranty was up. The coat hook was in a corner of the cab where you could not hang your suit coat on a hanger. The Tailgate hinges were such that you could not remove the gate without special tools that you could not purchase as a "consumer" so to take it off you HAD to go see the dealship. Of course the guys that would "steal" your tailgate had that tool (Hmmm?) then there was the weather "proof" lock on the spare tire that was rusted completely solid when I got a flat tire. The poorly designed reinforcements on the bed cross members that collected all the road crud and rusted out before the truck was even paid for! (sigh)

Sorry. HAD to vent.

chas





Chas, sorry for you, your vehicle issues make my switch issues moot. I think my point is dressing up a vehicle with bells and whistles is one thing. What I refer to with the topic here is poor design of the switch for outdoor service.

It's like Corvette offering their sports car for off-road service. (stupid analogy however I make my point here)


gg
 
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