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Posted By John Allman on 02/22/2009 11:24 PM
You guys have it almost completely correct. But not quite.

Protosound 2.0 will not run a DCC engine. If you own a large scale locomotive from MTH, its PS 2 equipped and will not be command controllable from a DCC system. When Protosound 3 boards come out later this year, they will be DCC compatible. That will mean you will be able to control the MTH locomotive with a DCC system. You will have access to the first 28 things the locomotive can do. See above for the list. (Greg - even the old engines like a Hudson have 50 or so distinct sound or light features. Every one is controllable from the remote. Another example is newer engines have a remote coupler that is controlled by the remote)
To get Protosound 3 in any locomotive you own now means you will take the PS 2 board out and replace it. It is not going to be a software upgrade.

PS 3.0 is not polarity sensitive. I guess that is better for some people. It will make it easier to find and load engines I suppose. You will be able to have reverse loops that are run exactly like DCC does now. (instead of having to wire them like LGB analog systems)

Another almost correct isssues. You absolutely can run your Proto 2 equipped locomotive under full DCS controll at 10v. In fact you can run it at any voltage up to 24v. There is only one thing that is affected by lower input voltage, and it isn't the sound or the smoke. Its the highest speed the locomotive can run at. I have run my hudson inside for 100s of hours off a 10 dollar 13v 3 amp radio shack DC power supply. The locomotive can not go faster than about 35 scale miles per hour. Sure, you can set the remote to 150 sMPH, but the loco will chugg along at whatever top end is limited to by the voltage potential. Everything else works exactly the same as if you had 24v input. My engines have a minimum start up voltage of about 7v. LGB digital sound locos typically started up around 6v or so. I actually run BOTH at the same time, on the same track all the time. I control the LGB engine by varing the voltage using the LGB throttle. I control the MTH using DCS. (both use the same power supply, the TIU is between the throttle and the track) Its easy, and the system was actually designed to do this. (or so I was told all those years ago)
Outdoors, I do the very same thing, except I use a much more powerfull power supply.



Looks like I saved myself a few fuses.....
 

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Hi GG,

You say that "The DCS remote that I have will run DCC locos in conventional mode".

I've just got myself a DCS + TIU to run my MTH Challenger, and am trying to get conventional mode to work on non-MTH locos, with no success so far.
Are you saying that conventional mode controls the basics of a DCC loco?
All I've managed to get is variable AC coming out of the variable output, not a lot of use to a variable DC track power loco.

What is the secret of your success?
 

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Hi,

success is relative and yes I have read that the Remote can direct a non MTH engine in conventional mode. (variable power) I am not that far into my remote yet and have yet to play with this.

Comment however is when I load up a loco to the TIU/remote, I have a choice: MTH engine or a NON-MTH engine.

With your TIU purchase came a CD explaining the technology. Have you listened to this in its entirety?

I truly suspect that engines can be run by variable power via the Remote. Let's not confuse this with this Remote taking over the functions of DCC.... It can't.

hope this helps and I'm sure that other people will chime in here.

gg
 

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You say that "The DCS remote that I have will run DCC locos in conventional mode".


not for our purposes. What that means is the varible outputs of the TIU can change the AC voltage output, using the remote,and so doing control a conventional O scale locomotive.

That is not useful for you. You can only use the remote to control Proto sound 2 or 3 equipped locomotives when using a DC power source.
 

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Thanks.
I guessed this was the case, but hoped it wasn't!

In a 'conventional 0 gauge loco' driven by variable AC, what controls the direction?
 

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A ratcheting switch in the locomotive that changes from Forward to Neutral to Reverse to Neutral to Foward each time the power is shut off and back on. The push button on the Lionel transformer just interrupted the power while the button was down to cause the switch to move one position. Or if you reduced the power to zero (off) it did the same thing.
 

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Good feedback. I stand corrected

gg
 

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Well I'll be honest. After watching all of Ray's videos on DCS it is a pretty amazing system for digital control. I especially like the Scale MPH. Unfortunately it seems like the SMPH on non-MTH locomotives will be different because they simply aren't built for DCS, their flywheels are a different size, and they are not 1/32 scale. I'm not sure the optical reader on the flywheel is necessarily the best answer, though it is nice. The big problem is that it seems difficult to convert products of other manufacturers to DCS because of the flywheel optical reader. If MTH made a decoder to accomodate these differences in other manufacturers it would be ideal. A USA Trains SD40-2 optical reader for example, designed to convert the information recieved by the optical reader of the SD40-2 flywheel to a prototypical speed, and also allowing a speed that would keep it in sync with 1/32 trains on the same layout. Now I realize this would cost more money and bring out competition issues, but it would make DCS more user friendly and would surely draw Aristo and USA Trains crowds to DCS.
Maybe not stop there but since G-scale is so diverse, add 1/20.3 etc. into the mix and make everyone happy since the system would be so easily inclusive to non-MTH locomotives. Don't get me wrong, I plan to go with DCS, but because of the difficulty I'm sure to face in converting my USAT locos to DCS, I just wish it were easier. On the bright side, at least MTH has dealers and there is Ray to help with the conversions. But it would be nice if you could decide your SMPH and set all equipment the same 'scale' so you could have 1/29 and 1/32 a perfect distance apart on the same track. What do you guys think?


-Will
 

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Will, I think maybe one topic of your post is in error, i.e. having to have a "converter" for different scale locos.

We need Ray or Chuck to come in here, but my understanding is that you set the "gear ratio" of the encoder stripes to the correct scale speed, and you can do it to 1:32 or 1:29 etc.

Now of course, if you are running different scales on the same layout you have to pick one standard, otherwise your locos will not run at the same speeds for the same "indication".

So, DCS guys, is the software/firmware flexible enough to "gear" a 1:29 to a 1:32 scale speed?

Regards, Greg
 

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Will,
The DCS conversion kits come with more than one tac strip so you calibrate the exact speed for your loco. Ray can help you with more info on it.

Also, Ray converted my Bacmann Annie to DCS and it runs great. He also has a Bachmann Annie that has been converted to DCS, these are the only 2 Anies with DCS that we know of. I love playing with mine and I have fun learning about ALL the features of DCS and was actually teaching Ray some things he didn't know about it. If you have the book, READ it!!!!! It tells all about the special features of DCS and how to use them. There is more to DCS than just controlling the speed.

Cliff
 

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What amazed me with DCS was the simplicity of getting my loco into the system, up and running. All I did was "push a button"

Hassle free.

gg
 

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quote:

01/22/2009 3:58 AM


Cutting straight to the chase:

BRASS outdoor is the way to go. SS is over rated and any way either will cut the cake for outdoor service. Simply put... both carry the same mtnce issues. This being conductivity or otherwise.. there is no winner. ( conductivity Vs scaling)

FREE FLOAT the track in northern climes and "git-over-the-extra-spring-work" Most of you forum guys really do not understand what "freezing" is and what it means re "frost heave"

DCS technology is best for true "Gardeners"....

DCC is best for "techno-Geeks"

Focus on: Train product simplicity which in turn allows focusing on the flowers on the range.

Want a real pic: 1:32 says all.

Want a prostitute: 1:29 says all. (sorry guys simply an opinion) North America missed out on this one...

gg


PS: strictly a personal opinion.... hopefully allowed on this site


Unquote:

From this to the above post in 48 days.....

regards


ralph
 

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Yes Ralph, it all fits together does it not?

gg
 

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Posted By Greg Elmassian on 03/11/2009 1:42 PM
Uhhh.... don't think that was Ralph's point... your old post is definitely old....

Greg






Yes Greg, my post was definitely old (like I am). What I said in it I consider still to be my beliefs. ( However I might eat crow on the 1:29 bit..... I'm exploring a Bachman Annie 1:20 converted to DCS )

There is room for the WOW factor ...


So, back to Ralph, what did he mean?

gg
 

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I think he means that your understanding and opinions have progressed over 48 days.

You are not making statements like: "Want a prostitute: 1:29 says all. (sorry guys simply an opinion) North America missed out on this one..."

That is progress in my view.

This is just my opinion....

Regards, Greg

p.s. Brass still sucks for outdoor track power as compared to SS in MOST people's experience... you took your answer from lownote, who is much more tolerant of track cleaning that many others who vocalize what a pain it is.
 

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Yes Greg, even old salts can be trained.

I humbly eat crow on the 1:29 bit..... AND if I can fit DCS into it, so be it...


BRASS REIGNS !!!!


What fun this is.

gg
 

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Yep, so I took the post as a compliment to you.

And brass works outside for some people, but I would not recommend it on DCS, it seems to be more sensitive to dirty track, and to noise on the signal. (Which makes complete sense owing to the technology).

Regards, Greg
 

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I have a plan for dirty track however will not break my back over it.

Will require a modified loco like a shay.......... When complete, forget about running trains.... just the track cleaner.


 
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