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Discussion Starter #1
Wow, this was a surprise!! /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/crying.gif If you are interested in the log before this point, click this link archive.mylargescale.com/forum/topic.asp  . Thanks Vance and Noel.


Noel if you ever would like some input on building the Bogie feel free to contact me off line. I would be happy to help in any way I can. By the way, this applies to any of the other guys out there who at one time indicated an interest in building a live steam Mason Bogie.
 

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Winn
How about some input on how you developed the "skills & tools" necessary to be able to put forth such an excellent scratch build live steam engine. Have enjoyed to process and would enjoy even more being an "understudy" to your talent.
 

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Charles, In my previous life, i.e. before I retired, I worked as a technician at the Sandia National Labs rocket sled track. One of my fellow employees was a journyman machinest and taught me a little about machining. However a lot of what I do was learned by trial and error over a life time of designing and building stuff. As far as machining goes I'm sure that there books that could give you a lot better information about machining than I can. From what I have seen you post here I think you have a very good level of skills yourself. The tools I use are as follows:


Lathe; Harbor Freight mini lathe


Mill; Micro Mark


Cutting tools and fixtures for the lathe and mill; Micromark and the LittleMachineShop.com


Drill press, 6 inch belt sander w/ 8 inch disc, 1 inch vertical belt sander, Dremel tool, band saw, scroll saw, two sizes of torches and various hand tools including numerous files, shears, screwdrivers and wrenches. I'm sure you already have a lot of these things and some of them are not really necessary like the vertical sander and scroll saw, but are just nice to use if you have them. Actually those two were puchased for my wife's craft business.


I'm trying to decide if I should continue this log here or on the Builder's Log site which I haven't been able to decipher. This new format has got me very frustrated. I am not very computer savy and only do this as a way to comunicate and get information. Now I have to learn the process all over again. I guess I'm just a grouchy Old Fart but often "new and improved" just means that I don't like it as well as the old. End of gripe.
 

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Hi Winn,
I have one of the steel chassie kit for the Mason Bogie and will start on this after I finish the live steam shay I am working on.

I would appreciate all the help I could get, I have been following your topic from the begining. I will contact you off line when I get ready to start. You have done a great job on this model.

Dave Watters
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Thanks Dave, I'll do what ever I can to help. Unfortunately I have not made a lot of drawings of what I have done, but I will be glad to give you copies of what I have. A lot of pieces have been made by trial and error, my scrap pile weighs almost as much as the loco! I have started a blog on the builders log site. It will take me a while to finish importing stuff from the old MLS but I think it will be easier to follow without all the intervening comments.
 

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Between trips and other activities I haven't been getting much done on the Bogie. Here is  my latest project, the Vance Bass cab. I made a few variations based on input from other MLS'ers and my own desires. The roof is removable and has an inner ceiling. A perimiter frame was added to the walls to make them more ridged when the roof is removed. Also added a solid brace between the rear roof supports so that they would be less likely to get snagged and broken. I tried to down load some photos but haven't figured out this new system. For some reason I am locked out of my web space and can't put any pictures there.
 

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I have made a fair amount of progress since my last post and I can now access my web space. The primary new parts are the Vance Bass cab, reversing linkage and additional bckhead detal, and Bronson-Tate rear truck.

For the cab I made some extra roof frames, added extra bracing around the top of the walls and the roof overhang supports, and added paneling to the cieling. Here are pictures.

Roof framing, the front and rear cross members were added


Roof with cieling paneling and added bracing


Cab assembled


Back head details and reverse lever. The reverse lever will be actuated by a servo in the fire box below the foot plate. The throttle will be controled by a servo in the cab.


 

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The Bronson-Tate rear truck. I made the brake hangers out of brass and the brake shoes actually pivot, not for any reason except the they were easier to attach that way.


Entire loco assembled for a fit check. Now THAT is really starting to look like SOMETHING!!!




Now I'm getting close to the hard part, painting and installing decals, not my favorite part.
 

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Absoloutely stunning! The most amazing scratch build! You'll be fine in the painting. Do let me know what style of decoration you'll be looking for..black with #44 on the tender, or colours, Mason decoation and 'Lake City' #8? Chocolate Brown.

No detail spared and she works from steam..amazing!

David.
 

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Hi Winn,


Superb job - congratulations on a very good looking loco

Thanks also or the 'mod', to the Bronson Tate tender truckand your removable cab roof.
 

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Hey Winn,
that's not just looking like SOMETHING - thats looking like THE BUSSINESS!!!!


Good to see the parts made for the original electric Masterclass like the wheels, valve gear, cab and bogie actually being used in a live steamer, wonder if anyone will follow the Aristocraft idea and put a live steam boiler in a plastic body? Should not think like that, I'm giving myself ideas here!

Looking forward to the finished job and some shots of it running. You anywhere near one of the electric builds, it would be interesting to see them side by side one day!

Be interested in the run time with the Roundhouse boiler once it has all settled down.

Allan.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Gentleman, Thank you all for the kind words. I must admit it feels really good to have her to this point but realize that there is still quite a bit of work left to do.

David, even though the model is basically the #44 I plan to use the chocolate brown as is on the cab already. The first overall side view above shows the color better than the cab pictures which are too light. I have decals from Stan which are similar to the Como but I have named her "Santa Fe" and she will be lettered for my Zia and Columbine RR which represents various Colorado and New Mexico railroads. The boiler wrap will be given the 'Blacken It' treatment, the smoke box will be a dark grey, the stack, backhead and under side a weathered black, and the wheels red. If this sounds too far afield let me know. Thanks for all your help.

Allan, I don't think a plastic boiler would work very well as the diameter is already so small that, given the thickness of the plastic, the actual boiler would be tiny and the runs very short. As it is, so far I am only getting about 10 minute runs and need to add a Goodall valve or some other way of adding water. I don't know of anyone nearby who is building a Bogie, Wesley Furman has ordered the BBTchassis but has not recieved one. That has discouraged him and I'm not sure he will ever start.

I'm off for a week of skiing in Colorado so won't be getting much done until the end of the month. A few more details to work on then I need to get some run time to work out some of the kinks and try to get longer runs. Then a complete disassembly for finishing.
 

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I'm back! Between various trips and other deversions I have managed to get a little done on the Bogie. Some details are completed.

Here is one of the cylinder oilers. It is mounted on a plate which will be glued to the top of the valve box to cover the mounting screws. Super glue seems to work OK for that, it held together when heated to 250 deg. F in the oven but could be pryed apart without damage.


The stack completed including the blower valve


The completed backhead


I have wrapped all the steam lines with fiberglass tape for insulation. It is a high temperture electrical tape with a heat setting adhesive. After wrapping the lines I baked them in the oven at 250 deg. F for half an hour. I hope this will help conserve steam.


I mounted the reversing servo in the dummy fire box below the foot plate. The J-bar pivot runs through the frame rail and has an actuating lever inside the fire box. It works very well except for some binding in the left expansion link in the reverse position, which I will have to fix.


Now I need to get some runs on the track to determine how much travel I need for the throttle so that servo setup can be designed.

The cow catcher with the rock guards and painted.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Well, I seem to be making one step forward and two backward. I was having trouble getting the burner to stay lit, but seem to have that fixed. However I can't produce enough steam. I can build the pressure to 40 PSI and within 100 feet it is down to less than 20. There are some steam leaks but it appears that the main problem is that the loco is radiating heat almost as fast as it is produced. I my have to do a redesign of the main frame and pilot deck to isolate the boiler and cylinders from the large metal masses which are sucking up lots of heat. A radiant screen on the burner and some heat trapping material in the flue might also help. Ideas anybody?
 

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Winn,
I would work on the steam leaks first - bet you are loosing more than you realise. A couple of small whispers can leak as much steam as the cylinders need so you are having to provide twice as much steam for the same work.
A roundhouse boiler should go for at least 20 - 30 mins on one fill judging by the locos I have seen at my local club. I would not worry too much about the mass of brass at the moment, some models I have seen have plenty of metal around the cylinders along with expossed pipework and still perform OK. People run in the winter as well with much more potential for heat loss than this time of year.
Start off at the regulator and work through each joint in turn, maybe disconect the next section and blank the end so you can presure test each joint in turn to find the one that is causing the problem.
Hope you get it sorted - too good a project to fail now!
Allan.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Thank you Allan, you are right. I do need to do an intensive leak search and remedy. I have already noted a couple of fairly obvious ones, The safety valve and valve box covers. I have a stethescope to use and Wesley Furman also suggested using a punk stick or incense stick to detect air blowing the smoke. There a few joints I may solder together instead of using gaskets. If that mostly solves the problem it would definately be easier than redesigning the cylinder mounts and the frame/running board assembly. Right now I'm leaving for a couple of days to do volunteer work at the Durango and Silverton. Maybe Monday I'll get a chance to do some leak chasing.
 
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