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Discussion Starter #1
Hi

My name is Casey Wilmunder i have been in the live steam for a couple of years and the past couple of months i have been looking at the manson bogie
it looks like a very simple loco to build if anyone has advice on building this loco please contact me at [email protected]
 

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simple?
well thats debatable! ;)

most would say its probably one of the most complicated engines to build..
quite a bit more complex than your average steam engine..

A few people here here have built live steam Mason Bogies:

archive.mylargescale.com/forum/topic.asp

archive.mylargescale.com/forum/topic.asp

www.mylargescale.com/Community/Forums/tabid/56/forumid/11/postid/189/view/topic/Default.aspx

(and im think im missing another one..)

Accucraft has announced they are coming out with a Live Steam Mason Bogie:

www.accucraft.com/index.php


And it all traces back to David Fletchers Masterclass 2002:

archive.mylargescale.com/articles/masterclass/

(and its "Mason"..not manson..)

Casey,
what do you have in mind?
a full scratchbuild?
or building a mason out of an existing model? (like the Ruby or something else)


Scot
 

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Hmm Simple would be the complete opposite word Id use on building the Masonbogie. Even building a electric version was the most involved model Fletch did yet here on Mylargescale. I have completed most of the electric version but have still fo complete the chassis. The valve gear was so complicated that we had it lasercut in stainless steel along with a short run of chassis parts. Barry of BBT did start doing a run of chassis to but had many delays and not many have been built to this day. Jim Barron in Texas had done a run of wheel and bell castings.

As for a live steam version Winn is the only current one that is scratch built see the Masterclass log for that one. There were a few other smaller versions made from ruby kits, I know of 2. One is currently being built and his log is here in the live steam forum, the other was done a few years ago in the UK by Perer Bunce.

Building any loco regardless of the model is never a simple task. There are a very large assortment of machines and tools you need to start making chips of a whole lot of metal. Winn had listed in his recent post of what tooling he is using to build his MB. Our smaller scale makes it easier to use the smaller machines like 4-6" lathes and smaller mills from say Micromark or Grizzly. These are all ok tools but sometimes are not so accurate. A friend had the 2nd size up mill from Grizzly and while it was only about 450.00 he said that you get what you pay for but he also had a lot of expirence on the larger tools like Bridgeports. I have a friend that has a complete metal shop and run his business out of there. So I get to use all his toys for my builds.

I guess how easy it can be built would to see who there is near you to help you build something, also what acess do you have to all these tools. Being 13 school is another way to gain acess to a shop as some high schools have metal shops but the only issues you run into is the short class times. That was my problem when I took shop back then. They also did not offer any time to work there after school.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
thanks all

well i have all tools but some are not small i have every thing to put my dad's heisler and porter back togather.i still wish i hade my dads lathe 30 foot long
bed with a 100 inch chuck to turn 72in drivers but that is a bit to big .i do have a unimate that im making pins for link and pin couplers that i sell for 1.00 ea
and a south bend lathe which is a 6 in chuck an a 6 foot long bed.ok back to the mason bogie i discussed it over with my dad and it sounds crazy but
i will be building 15 of them i have it down to a reasonable price for the loco it will have the casted back truck,wood cab,steel frame,wheels from mo loc
that builds the gyspy,water pump,butane fired,but i should have 5 for diamondhead which i think im going in jan of 09 or a least 2 and maybe 2 crickets
that i have been working on i dont have pics becaue i have dial,so in a couple of weeks i hope to have a high speed.I have a lot of plans and etc and 
im busy in school and orking on fullsize equp right now the best way to get a hold of me is phone i don't type very well.

sincerly
casey wilmunder
 

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Casey,

Best of luck with your ambitious effort. Can I suggest you pick a different MB from the Accucraft version, so folk won't have to choose which version - they can have one of each! Maybe a 2-4-4?
 

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Ok i know everyone still thinks im crazy but know one knows wat i do im a very good machinist and metal fabacator,i have built scratch HO scale
engines,O gauge locos,Marine live steam the model of the african queen,G scale live steam which i have been 2 years designing the drawings
for the oregen pony,The origanal cricket,And http://www.gearedsteam.com/other/images/madera_sugarpine_co-dwg-thunder.jpg mandrea logging
i think,i do know that i will be working on the mason bogie next week the cricket i would put on hold i do plan to have 2 mason bogies for diamondhead
in jan of 2009 right now my dad is finshing the house to get it signed off,so this week the house wil be signed off and i will be ordering one frame for
the mason bogie and im still researching for plans but i no people debait the word simple with live steam.Why i picked this loco is that the frame was 
cut and most othere parts were made the cylinders are not to bad to machine with a horizontile mill and and vertical mill i have the machinary 
its just time that is the problem and i know most people dont belive me because im 13 but i do a lot for my age special trains i have two narrow gauge 
steam locos and 4 cars.i know a lot of people on here will belive me when they see it.but not till next week i get high speed then i will start posting pics.


the best way to get a hold of me is [email protected]
send me a email if u want to talk to me on the phone.


sincerly

casey wilmunder
 

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Casey do you also know the legalities of building a live steam loco with a pressure vessel? YOu need to speak to you rlawyer and make sure you are covered with insurance. I know this since a friend is is looking into into having a boiler service.

I look foward to seeing you previous locos that you built.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
well i have not gotten that far in to building i was thinking maybe a accucraft boiler but i might get sued over rights
also i might do a ruby bash to with my ruby kit i dont know yet i tried to send u pm last night were u getting them
because i would like to talk to u on the phone if u are on the chat see u there.
 

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Casey,
while a live steam Mason Bogie is certaintly a worthy goal..if you have never built any live steamers before, I would suggest something
MUCH simpler for your first offering..just for the sake of your own sanity! ;)

As an analogy, suppose you were really into bicycling, and you decide you have the tools and the interest to begin a custom bicycle building business.
you have never designed and built a bike from scratch before, but you are willing to give it a shot..
as your first offering, you decided to come out with a $7,000 high-end racing bike!
well...thats really not business smart..because you wont yet have the skills and experience to build at that level..
you need to start simple and build your way up to the $7,000 racing bike level..

A live steam Mason Bogie is a $7,000 racing bike.

I would suggest thinking more along the lines of Ruby or Cricket...you will be more likely to be successful..

just some friendly advice..
Scot
 

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Discussion Starter #11
 i do know wat u are talking about the cricket is the most easiest loco for me to build beacause of its design i picked the mason
bogie because of the frame on rods are already built and bronson-tate for the cab,cow catcher,back truck im still trying to find
the company that makes the casted bronze truck, i have not decidede yet on wat im doing, but my dad wants to build the
mason bogie i just put the kits to gather and some of the maching the cricket i did every thing by myself and it was a very
hard loco its not the simplist but because of its design it was a alright engine to build,there is some other locos i would like 
to build,http://www.gearedsteam.com/other/images/robb_engineering.jpg and others i will decide later but i do know that


im at least buildig one mason bogie now that i kind of think it over no one wants to buy from a 13 year old kid.


 


sincerly


casey wilmunder


 


 
 

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Casey, I called and left you a message but have not heard back from you. I will be out of town for the next 3 weeks. I have been working on my Bogie for about 2 years and am finally getting close to being ready to start painting. (not my favorite job) I used a Roundhouse boiler and machined my own design for cylinders and valves. As Scott says this not an easy build, but if you really want to try it, I would be happy to send you copies of the few drawings I have made. Mostly I just scribble a few ideas on a scrap of paper or work right from my head. This method does tend to create a lot scrap, but after years as a draftsman I hate making drawings and have never learned to use CAD. I don't know if you have read my builders log but I would suggest that you spend considerable time studying that and all of David Fletcher's Masterclass material. I admire young guys who are willing to push their limits, I have a 9 year old grand son who loves to build things. You will make a lot of mistakes and some times it will get discouraging, but that is the way we learn. A big job is just a whole lot of little jobs, do each one until you get it right, then move on to the next one. Good luck.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
thanks to every one that posted im still trying to explain that i do have the tooling to build the loco im using a hor mill to cut the cylinders
and drill them out with a drill press/vertical mill im still trying to find the forum where i think david fletcher talked about a casted truck
at the high school im going to the shop teacher well let me have the shop tell first per and when i have him for a class an after school.
winn if u can send me the drawings of the cylinder that would be a big help,i know everyone still thinks i should do a lot smaller project


but if it will work out i will build them and no it would not be like a buisness just a couple and thats it ,well im really next week getting


high speed and hope to start posting pics.


well its late im going to head out


see everyone tomarrow night


sincerly


Casey Wilmunder
 

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Casey

BBT is the one who made the cast trucks, If my memory is correct they are or were about 100-125 @ a few yewars ago. I have not heard that he is building any more frames so that probally includes the rods and trucks.

Casey have you thought about what prices these loco are going to run? Most likely the time involved to build them for sale will far outweight the selling price thee market will bear unless this it so be a accurate scale replica. Keep in mind that the boiler diamater is smaller then the Ruby boiler but longer. The Accucraft version should be having a axle pump so we can make sure run times are a good 45 mins.

I am building 2 0-6-0 Porters using some Ruby kits. The time involved is far greated then what someone would pay for a longer Ruby. Here is another Ruby project I built, Just a simple bash into a 2-4-0 with a tender. I have over 100 hours in this thing and at say 25./hr = 2,500 + Ruby to start. Not very cost effective

[img/]http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/Kovacjr/Ruby/Mont-final.jpg
 

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Hey Casey,
I think give it a go. If you're well adept at the tools, then why not! Suggest build one to try everything out and show folks how they look and run, learn the lessons from that first one, and go into making more if things work out. Personally I have no talent for working in metal, but had I listenned to all the nay-sayers when I was 8-14yr old telling me to stop wasting time mucking around with models, and that I 'cant' do it, I'd not be building models now, nor would I have ended up an Architect. I would only have become good at the same schoolwork that everyone else was good at and become brilliant at medioctrity (and I might have been a better speller!). I truely believe this is the age to allow kids to explore the things they are really passionate about for themselves, rather than send them off to all these time wasting afterschool programmes so they came become the same as all the other kids. Its the things that set us appart that make us special and more employable later in life. The things that we can personally become great at are the things we're really passionate about.

Go for it Casey, learn heaps from the effort. You may suceed first time, you may get half way and learn how to do it better next time, you might only get as far as researching 'how' it can be done. All of these things are achievements. I would suggest the one prototype to start, so you dont have to spend a lot of hours replicating mistakes if you learn better ways to make certain parts.

Good luck,
David.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
hi winn i sent u a message and david if u didn't get them send me a email im having problems now typing
im going to see about ordering a frame next week once i get high speed i ill start posting pics of the construction

sincerly

Casey Wilmunder
 
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