Just Wondering

...You ARE getting what you are paying for, and apparently you are not presently paying for the factory to do the final step...

Therein lies the problem, on so many levels. At the risk of turning this into a similar debate concerning another prominent 1:20 manufacturer, why are we as consumers accepting of things that don't run properly out of the box? For the amount of money we spend on these locos, proper machining, construction, and operation should be included in the price. There's no excuse for it not to be. When I buy any other expensive mechanical device (car, lawnmower, etc.) am I supposed to expect to have to balance the tires myself?

Yes, this is a hobby of tinkerers, and perhaps part of the problem stems from the fact that each of us has different ideas of what is "ideal" operation. Maybe the locos do run well enough out of the box, and we're just too exacting. I don't know. Live steam locos are individual beasts by nature. But it just boggles my mind why we readily accept "inferior" products simply by justifying it to ourselves by saying "well, it's a bargain at that price, so it's okay."

Later,

K

...Simple! Because that is all we are willing to pay for...

I disagree, especially at the price points we're talking about. We're not talking Christmas set trains here. I would expect to have troubles with a New Bright set, but the four figures I'm paying for that includes the two after the decimal point. The trains we're discussing are in no way aimed at the mass market. They're aimed at the discriminating enthusiast who (a) appreciates quality and (b) has the financial ability to pay for it. Implicit in that price is the notion that these trains are top-drawer both in finish and operation. The company promotes themselves as builders of "museum quality" models, not "good enough, but..." When a manufacturer bases their business model on that level of fit and finish, things darned well better run out of the box.

If you've read my reviews of their locos in GR, you've undoubtedly seen where I've pointed out what--to me--are very nonsensical defects that are easily correctable at the factory. Why they let locos leave the factory with those kinds of flaws simply boggles the mind and I have no qualms with letting them know about it. If I'm paying $4K for a locomotive, I want window glazing in all the windows, not just most of them. I want add-on details to actually fit where they're supposed to be added on.

It seems completely crazy to me to even contemplate that I'm expecting too much for my money, and I should accept it with those shortcomings because--after all--getting this loco at $4K is a bargain. Not in the financial circles I travel in.

Later,

K

Charles, I'll let you enjoy your wireless mouse. Heaving it across the room is--at the very least--therapeutic. (I've had the same luck with wireless mice. At least they fly well.)

I agree that if you plunk down a four digit figure for a "toy" it ought'a work right out of the box. But it is possible that if Accucraft were to implement the QC function that would get that result for you, you might, JUST MIGHT, have to add another 3 or 4 digit figure to the price, bringing the price to something similar to what Aster charges.

I think people would be willing to pay that straight out. When someone buys a loco on this level, I think price is a secondary consideration. It's still a factor, but people who want a live steam {insert favorite loco here} will pay just to have one on their roster. Obviously there's a limit, but I don't think an extra few hundred, or even $1,000 would be a deal breaker. It's a significant purchase--for many of us a once-in-a-lifetime type thing. A little extra isn't going to dissuade someone in that position. Clearly, Aster's been able to sell 5-figure locomotives, so I think the rule is--if you want it bad enough, you'll find a way.

I think the game changes a bit with locos priced in the $1K range, as they're appealing to a slightly broader market. I'd still have to buy my wife something really special in exchange for a $1,500 loco, but it's a bit more in line with other purchases like computers, cameras, and things like that. Price is more of a consideration here, because someone just "testing the waters" so to speak, who just wants a live steam something will go with what appeals to him/her, but balanced more with what they want to spend. In my opinion, folks in this market are less prone to spend extra money if they don't have to.

Locomotives in both price ranges should run very well right out of the gate. The former, because at that price point the buyer expects it to; the latter because the manufacturer needs it to in order to hook the customer and get them to eventually buy the more expensive product line.

Later,

K