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Discussion Starter · #41 · (Edited)

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Would like to see a line of pullman heavyweights like Aristo did but in 1:32, I wonder how many could be sold at that kind of price?
 

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Discussion Starter · #45 ·
Joe,
A couple more links for you:
Edgar Allan Poe
http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/6501650
Mark Twain
http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/6501651
Liberty Park
http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/6501652
and Federal Hall
http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/6501653
Cheers,
David Leech, Delta, Canada
Thanks again David.

I created an account at Liveauctioneers just to look these up. They were all sold at the same time in 2009 and the prices ranged from $725 each to $775 each for the observations cars, so four for $3,000.00 in 2009.

Tellingly, from 2003 to the present, I only found only a handful of J&M coach auctions listed.

One possible conclusion is that, if one is willing to wait up to five years from now, on average, one will find coaches available for half the price of the ones I may be able to buy today. Funds availability and time value of money needs to be factored in.

It is anyone's guess when the next comparable group of coaches may be available and for how much.

I note that a group of 5 New York Central coaches went for $2,350.00 in 2003 and again - maybe even the same five for $3,300.00 sometime later, but not recently (failed to note date.)

In 2009, while the J&M Pennsy coaches were going for $750 each approx., the NY Central coaches sold for about $550.00 each approx. Go figure.

To be continued.

Cheers,

Joe
 

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Discussion Starter · #46 ·
Would like to see a line of pullman heavyweights like Aristo did but in 1:32, I wonder how many could be sold at that kind of price?
If I had US outline coaches available of comparable quality to the G1MRC Mk I coaches, distributed in the US by Accucraft, there would be no need to struggle to find J&M coaches as, for my money, the G1MRC coaches are plenty good enough for the price points.

They were just over $300.00 each which is a far cry from $1,300 each and more, much more for the rare J&M coaches.

Cheers,

Joe
 

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Joe
They were just over $300.00 each which is a far cry from $1,300 each and more, much more for the rare J&M coaches.

That is not going to happen with "heavyweight" coaches. J & M coaches (NYC) at the National Summer Steam up sold much, much lower than the historical tracking of prices you have researched.
 

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Discussion Starter · #49 · (Edited)
Joe
They were just over $300.00 each which is a far cry from $1,300 each and more, much more for the rare J&M coaches.

That is not going to happen with "heavyweight" coaches. J & M coaches (NYC) at the National Summer Steam up sold much, much lower than the historical tracking of prices you have researched.
Ryan,

Thank you. If I am interpreting what you stated correctly, you feel no one is about to sponsor heavyweights being made in China and brought in as G1MRC has done with the BR Mk I coaches. OK.

So we aren't getting any new ones?

But . . .

If one goes to a large regional or National steam-up, someone may offer a few of the J&Ms on the cheap?

Can you share with us an approximate number and condition of J&M coaches that changed hands at the National Summer Steam-up and what level of pricing? (I note that they were New York Central.)

Regards,

Joe

Edit: I am not deliberately trying to be obtuse here.

The message I am getting so far is that there aren't going to be any new heavyweights made by anyone - at least none on the radar - and that there are some J&M around. I am interpreting the phrase "some around" as meaning that J&M coaches may be available for a reasonable price only through person-to-person direct contact every couple of years and there will be just a couple and they may or may not be available in a particular livery desired. When asked politely for follow-up from Jim or Jason, there has been none so far.

Do I have it about right?
 

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its hard to put a price on beauty,,, the j an m models are just fantastic,,,,

if you can afford it,,, buy them,,, if not ,, buy the cheeper end stock,,, both will bring pleasure to the eye

off the bee holder,,,,

buzz buzz,,
 

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J&M cars

I see your thread. I would like to know if you are interested in selling your J&M Fleche d'or cars.

Regards,

Duc
 

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Discussion Starter · #52 · (Edited)
I see your thread. I would like to know if you are interested in selling your J&M Fleche d'or cars.

Regards,

Duc
Duc,

Thank you for your inquiry.

I just purchased them and will see them for the first time next week. I'll put some photos up at some point.

So no, not interested in selling.

On the other hand, if someone who has read this thread and has PRR heavyweights to sell - as we know they are indeed "around" - I would be happy to make an offer for 4 to 6 such coaches for a price higher than either mentioned - or alluded to - by Jason, Jim or Ryan - assuming that they are in very good shape.

Private messages welcome.

Cheers,

Joe
 

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Discussion Starter · #53 · (Edited)
Anyone have a better email address for John Waggott" ?

This address:

[email protected]

Appears to be no longer valid. My inquiry "bounced back."

Received two coaches today, "Juana" and C.I.W.L 4018E. Will try and get some photos up. I am satisfied with the condition so far.

* * *

Thanks to all of you who sent private messages to me offering up your PRR J&M heavyweight coaches for $500 to $650 each. Too many folks to acknowledge individually here.

My inbox is now full and I will do my best to get off a personal reply to each of you just as soon as I can. With so many opportunities to choose from, I will need at least a dozen pictures of each to help me decide which to actually buy!

Just kidding, of course. ;)

Here's hoping everyone's sense of humor is intact.

It is my hope to "keep it light."

Cheers,

Joe
 

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Discussion Starter · #54 ·
Below is a composite of C.I.W.L 4018E







The first two coaches I received have satisfied me as far as to overall quality for the money spent.

As suggested earlier, I would rather have spent less and got less - as the more one spends, the less likely one is going to want to risk damage by bringing the coaches along to a steam-up for others to enjoy!

These two are gems . . .

On 4018E, I found that the brass bright work needs attention - as would be expected. I have already given it some "elbow grease" as you will see in the second row before and after shining up the brass.

One stair/step was bent and one glass panel was missing of the many panels in this model. I show the door with the missing glass panel in the second row.

It turns out that microscope slides make good glass panels due to near-perfect size and thin-ness - and I ordered a box of 72 today for about 6 dollars! I can now break 71 additional windows and still recover in good form.

I won't go through the trouble of putting photos up for the rest of these coaches, but I will consider putting up a couple photos upon request if there is specific interest.

The seven I purchased in these recent transactions were listed in the OP - opening post - and I have only received the two so far.

I'll put up the very interesting CIWL "Fourgon" baggage car and the "Edgar Allan Poe" when they arrive.

Cheers,

Joe
 

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Very nice, Joe.

Did you mention what you're pulling them with?
 

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Discussion Starter · #56 · (Edited)
You've just opened up a can of worms, haven't you? ;)

I have a Schools, A Castle and an unbuilt "Evening Star" with which to work.

At the moment, I have a collection of buggies but no horse for the three CIWL wagons.

I am on the lookout for an Aster Chapelon 231E and when I was putting the bid in for the Fleche d'Or cars, I was also investigating a Nord. It had issues. It was built from a kit and had imprecisely bent pipework which I was afraid would indicate less than stellar work overall and it was missing two brass castings, one on each side. It sold 24 hours after I found it. In retrospect, I probably should have bought it and rebuilt it from scratch if need be, as it was 95+% complete and the paintwork looked unblemished.

So I am "on the hunt" for a Nord and I have a few people on the lookout for me as well. Anyone here who hears of one coming available, kindly let me know.

So it is fair dues to say that I put the cart before the horse. ;-)

As far as the Brit Pullmans go . . .

They appear to have been vagabonds!

Pullman CAR 54 was run by the LNER but also by the SR and beforehand was owned for a time by the Simplon Orient Express, so I think I can rightly pull it with the Southern Schools or, taking a page out of the David Leech school of railroading, pull it with my BR(GW) Castle.

I have seen at least one photo of Golden Arrow Pullmans being pulled by a Schools, BTW. (I recognize a Nelson class or a Spam Can is preferable.)

I don't like appearing to be as pedestrian as I really am, but the chocolate (umber) and cream color scheme will cause me to take liberties and mix it with other chocolate and cream stock that I possess!

Ibis was originally built for the CIWL in 1925 and was sent off to Italy and for a time served on the Simplon Orient Express and was renamed "Car 52" for a bit. It was transferred to France and served on the "Deauville Express" for a time. A bit later still it ran between Paris and Ostend, Belgium. Eventually it was repatriated and became part of the SR and ran between London and the Channel Ports as part of the Golden Arrow. What a tart she was! Ibis also eventually worked with the GWR in the Devon area before eventually ending up in the Birmingham Railway Museum. As long as I do not use it between virtual New York and Chicago, I think I can pretty much have my way with Ibis, can't I? (Info above courtesy of Kentrail.org.uk)

Juana was originally ordered for the GWR and you know what that means for my Castle. *wink* Eventually it was absorbed into the SR Western Section.

The "Edgar Allan Poe" will be a "rake of one," so far, for the K4.

At the moment the railroad itself is virtual. I am fortunate to have two properties with which to work. My current thinking is to acquire a smallish portable track pending deciding whether I will actually build a small railroad most likely at my summer place.

Cheers,

Joe
 

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Joe
What locomotive are you using for the J&M Fleche d'or cars given that the 231E is a seldom made available. Well, if you want to "lease out (with option to purchase)" the coaches our U1 could use a bit more weight behind it...
Maybe there might be a 241P might become available: probably not so, more likely a 141R or 140C could be put into service.

Enjoy the set of cars...
 

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Discussion Starter · #59 ·
Thanks, Charles,

BTW, Enjoyed you "left coast" video!

At the moment, there is an un-built French Mikado - Mistral - on Ebay which is lying in Italy, for sale to the Euros only.

I contacted the owner in my best Italian and he may let me bid on it. ;)

We'll see . . .

I once thought that I could not possibly even think about spending the kind of money required to purchase a 241P, but, if I add up the money I am spending on coaches and am contemplating spending on coaches, the price of a U1 (if one becomes available) or a 241P is starting to look well . . . shall I say . . . reasonable? :)

A couple more shots of what I have received so far . . .















I really do want the Nord though . . . ;)

I have at least a couple of fellow Americans helping me look for one as well as a couple guys in Switzerland and one in Germany.

***********************

"Juana" is missing one of the corridor connector accordion bellows. I have written J&M Models to see whether these may be available, as they do make "stuff" still.

Cheers,

Joe
 
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