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Hi Joe,

It sounds like you fallen into the deep end of the pool! The 1/32 scale passenger coach has traditionally been the difficult and potentially painful in the bank account part of Gauge 1. J & M Model coaches again, like in our locomotive discussion, are influenced by many of the same factors--the condition of the model, the scarcity of the model, and that every-changing variable, the demand for the model.

So to try to answer to your question...what are they worth...leads to similar answers as before. It depends on the above. CIWL cars are in high demand currently, are relatively rare and generally demand high prices given an open marketplace, like at an auction. The recent auction in Dallas, for example, saw what I thought were some good examples...three mint CIWL cars sold for $5100.Ouch.but maybe they go higher...who knows?.. In a similar vein, if you acquired some J&M Reingold cars and sold them on ebay.de then their value there will likely be higher there than in the US....So again, the value of these cars depends on a lot of the same market factors as the locos. I can tell that the prices have gone up in general (for J&M models) over the last ten to fifteen years. I acquired some J&M Pennsy cars some years ago for a few hundred each....and sold them to Hans for about the same a few years later but today they are probably worth a lot more if he took good care of them. Demand seems to be increasing for specific coaches and lines--heavyweights in particular.. And as the gent above noted, there are some manufacturers who are putting some products out there. Accucraft too has now stepped in. We will see what impacts good and bad that will have. The good obviously is satisfying pent up demand for coaches with all these naked locomotives...and the bad, for some, may be the reduction in value of a previously rare model...So, purchase what you want and enjoy them!

Good luck,
Sam
 

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Joe,

I think Jim must be able to source some locally where variations in price in that range might happen. You are unlikely to find those prices on auction sites here in the US or overseas. The last ones i've seen sold via ebay here in the US went for about 1K each. Ah, the good old days when I purchased some of those cars for a few hundred dollars in mint condition....a rare event these days but it can happen.

Yes, Joe...I too would like to obtain up for a few coaches in that range....even in fair to good condition.

As Dan points one, get some new trucks and off you go...

Sam
 

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Jim,

For what the Aristo coaches cost these days, it makes sense....I gave up with the S2 and use freight cars...the ones that Pete Comley has from Accucraft are decent....but if you want GN heavyweights, you'll have to paint them or make em....

Sam
 

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Joe,

You've hit on the key point. relative to your value question...where's the supply?. For some, the lack of supply and the lack of available or spendable dollars moves one to settle on an Aristo heavyweight where there is a fairly good supply at low prices......For others--the few of us left that is.:)--since there is no middle ground product currently, it's on to the high end J&M or even higher end Golden Age stuff...

The risks for a manufacturer in this space are considerable--a dying off customer base (that does sound negative...) a set of buyers already committed to the high end and low end perhaps..and to add to that produce a car(s) that will satisfy the diverse needs of the rest......So, they''re asking--where's the demand?

So, here we are...:(......maybe I'm in the wrong hobby??...... want to buy some J&M Cars???:)

Sam
 

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Joe,

As I mentioned in an earlier post, local sourcing can lead to price variations...also, since you do not know the condition of these cars, it is hard to comment. The seller would have likely done much better in an open auction given the price realized but again, it's hard to know without seeing them...

There is a lot to be said for being at the right place at the right time...

Sam
 

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Joe,

The reason I don't have my J&M Pennsy cars any longer is exactly what du-bousquetaire mentioned....My K4 was unhappy pulling 4 of them.....So, before you buy a lot of them make sure your engine will pull them.....

By the way Marc, whatever Joe offers you, I'll give you a $100 more...:)

Sam
 

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Joe,

I don't remember that Aster had such a dramatic sound system on the Nord when I owned it...:.nice engine. My friend in France did reply and is looking but apparently that is no longer needed, true?

Sam
 

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Joe,

I would tend to agree..the prices on a on the diner and salon car seem a bit high to me...even given the recent auction prices....but if you're missing those two coaches in your collection, then there may be a buyer there. The sleepers, I think, given the apparent condition may be about right but we'll see. I have 7 CIWL coaches so I think I'm good for now. I miss David's old CIWL coaches--those were very well done and ran extremely well. David-I'm a buyer if you even make them again!

Sam
 

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David,

Yeah, I'm assuming the "if I ever get around to it" means "don't hold your breath".....:)

Joe- the salon car is the only one I don't have in the listing but I'm not paying $1500 for one....I'd rather put my money on David for now or wait for one to turn up with more sane pricing........After all there are only 10 241Ps sold in the US and my guess is most of those folks already have the cars from the 232U1 days or don't care....

Sam
 

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Simon,
Thanks for the detail and my wallet thanks you too...although it was safe with the current price....My 232U1 will have to be happy with the others (three LX types, 2 S,a blue diner and a blue fourgon)for now...practical elements often trump the desire for historical accuracy in any event.....fortunately, in regard to the salon car...I'm ok....

Joe-good luck getting the PRR cars. No comp from me....

Sam
 

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Yes, Dave he has....but the results could be the same unless he reaches a sane reserve. He seems to be hanging his hat, as it were, on the price for new ones with his link reference....The problem with that particular strategy is there are still a fair number of not new coaches out there. If one is patient, one can likely pay a lot less than that.. As Joe has repeatedly pointed out, a quick look in Europe shows them coming up a bit more regularly. Of course, if one is not patient, etc., then he sells his car....that's the buyer he's looking for... I wish him luck since someday i might be selling and I may be looking for a similar buyer. Clearly, there was someone out there who was willing to pay a premium in the Heritage auction.

It is interesting to see where things are....

Sam
 

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Joe,
Probably one of the 241P owners in need of cars. The diner car purchaser may have picked up the others in the bargain.....but we'll see. The seller was smart to change his tactics. Of course, ebay is real winner in all of these....the rest of us--patience is usually rewarded....

Sam
 

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Joe,
Yes, of course, all this "educated" guesses.are just that......No crystal ball unfortunately at my disposal.....

Personally, i'm glad to see the prices go where they are since I own several myself.....The market for a CIWL diner car looks good if you own one right now. We'll see what else we can say after that......

Sam
 

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Hi Joe,

For the Pennsy cars, the car at the bottom looks like the ones I used to own so I'm thinking that is proper color. I think I have some Liberty Hall sides but not sure. I'll check.

It looks like you have a pretty complete list there. I have some old J&M dealer brochures from the 1980s and a J&M brochure. I can look at that tonight to see if there were others offered.

Sam
 

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Joe,

The PRR and NYC list checks out based on brochures I have from Gauge One America and Garden Railway Company back in the 1980s. There is no other road names listed. Perhaps someone else knows if they did a run of SP cars but I've personally never seen originals except from those two lines.


The European stuff I have the original J&M 16 page brochure and the listing for all the J&M cars. If interested, I can copy some of that and send your way.


I'll have to look at the Liberty Hall sides. I've had them for a long while so I'll let you know.


Sam
 

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Joe,

I have a bit more info for you.


On the PRR heavyweights, the Edgar Allan Poe and Mark Twain had two variations: One was red body/black roof and the other was red body/brown roof had stripes (gold) and green truck frame.


I saw there were two NYC Heavyweights today...missed the Troy...oh well. Please keep an eye out for me...


Sam
 

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Joe,My info comes largely from brochures from the 80s. The NYC cars were made first for the most part. The NYC observation cars and club baggage cars were produced later in 1984 according to a letter I have from Gauge One America (Fran Devore).


I had a set of the PRR cars but Hans acquired them many moons ago. I didn't take pictures unfortunately. Ryan, of course, looks have more up-to-date information. No PRR diner is mentioned in any of the early literature I have.




Sam
 

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Joe,

Thanks for posting. Well, from the number of hits on this thread, it appears a few-- in that very small vein-- are interested. Apparently, someone was interested enough to purchase four NYC cars on Sunday for 1K each...

Sam
 
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