Ron Senek went to a Utah train club meeting and was surprised at how few in the club ever went online to any train forums, or did not have a computer at all, and this is the club that Shad is a member of! However many GR guys there are, I think only a small fraction are online.
It's cold out and I was thinking...
Hello
After viewing one of the movie mix DVDs from the bay area clubs and seeing the amazing layouts and thinking about the economy and businesses models of supply and demand I got to wondering just how many people have garden RR's or inside G scale layouts. I would suspect the numbers of HO, N, O and other gauge fans far out number the G men due to cost but mostly space restrictions. Considering the companies that produce G equipment for us and the magazines that are exclusive to the hobby there must be alot of people out there that are reading and buying stough from the manufacturers to keep them in business. I would say that 90% of my G stough was bought used purely due to the cost and it is part of the fun to find a little treasure at a show, shop or on Ebay for a deal. I'm sure that most folks consider the cost when buying their equipment so many people are buying used over new when they can. I know that no one can know for sure but if you had a guess just how many people do you think have G scale layouts or even just a couple of pieces on display 100,000? 500,000, a million?? MORE and what percentage of them are buying new?
What do you think?
After viewing one of the movie mix DVDs from the bay area clubs and seeing the amazing layouts and thinking about the economy and businesses models of supply and demand I got to wondering just how many people have garden RR's or inside G scale layouts. I would suspect the numbers of HO, N, O and other gauge fans far out number the G men due to cost but mostly space restrictions. Considering the companies that produce G equipment for us and the magazines that are exclusive to the hobby there must be alot of people out there that are reading and buying stough from the manufacturers to keep them in business. I would say that 90% of my G stough was bought used purely due to the cost and it is part of the fun to find a little treasure at a show, shop or on Ebay for a deal. I'm sure that most folks consider the cost when buying their equipment so many people are buying used over new when they can. I know that no one can know for sure but if you had a guess just how many people do you think have G scale layouts or even just a couple of pieces on display 100,000? 500,000, a million?? MORE and what percentage of them are buying new?
What do you think?
21 - 36 of 36 Posts
Posted By Jerry Barnes on 03/16/2009 8:50 AM
Ron Senek went to a Utah train club meeting and was surprised at how few in the club ever went online to any train forums, or did not have a computer at all, and this is the club that Shad is a member of! However many GR guys there are, I think only a small fraction are online.
I would agree with that. As much as I have promoted MLS to our club of about 40 members over the past 10 years, I think only 3 of us really use it. And in general, I think those of us that are on-line have such a huge advantage when it comes to information about our hobby (latest news, problem solving, etc).
I think it is going to take at least another 10 years before clubs are made up entirely of folks that are truly comfortable using computers.
Ron Senek went to a Utah train club meeting and was surprised at how few in the club ever went online to any train forums, or did not have a computer at all, and this is the club that Shad is a member of! However many GR guys there are, I think only a small fraction are online.
I would agree with that. As much as I have promoted MLS to our club of about 40 members over the past 10 years, I think only 3 of us really use it. And in general, I think those of us that are on-line have such a huge advantage when it comes to information about our hobby (latest news, problem solving, etc).
I think it is going to take at least another 10 years before clubs are made up entirely of folks that are truly comfortable using computers.
Jerry,
Was your comment tilted toward Shad's taste in clubs? JUST KIDDING!!!! See, I'm tuning up to try posting a poll, & practicing enduring negative answers.
![]()
Your point re computers is well put. Last numbers I heard was that only about 33% of the population had computers. I know for a fact that many guys my age don't have 'em and don't want 'em. (I don't know any train guys my age, locally.)
Thus, the poll will have flaws in that the sampling will be tiny and biased due to where it will be posted. Okay. But folk with acess to databases can survey the readership of this site (as Chad just did) do some extrapolation and come up with some 'indications' at least.
I think there are actually a larger number of G gaugers than we might think, and I suspect they came from other gauges, or tinplate (or even/especially multi-gauge operators) as I did. I further suspect there're a lot of guys who scratchbuild but their work or personalities are such that they don't show stuff. I would far rather see and follow a buildup of a so-so flatcar than read about Manufacturer's X's new line of brass flats. (Couplers & trucks extra.) So the guy didn't get it quite 'right'. I don't care, it was interesting to see his techniques.
Les
Was your comment tilted toward Shad's taste in clubs? JUST KIDDING!!!! See, I'm tuning up to try posting a poll, & practicing enduring negative answers.
Your point re computers is well put. Last numbers I heard was that only about 33% of the population had computers. I know for a fact that many guys my age don't have 'em and don't want 'em. (I don't know any train guys my age, locally.)
Thus, the poll will have flaws in that the sampling will be tiny and biased due to where it will be posted. Okay. But folk with acess to databases can survey the readership of this site (as Chad just did) do some extrapolation and come up with some 'indications' at least.
I think there are actually a larger number of G gaugers than we might think, and I suspect they came from other gauges, or tinplate (or even/especially multi-gauge operators) as I did. I further suspect there're a lot of guys who scratchbuild but their work or personalities are such that they don't show stuff. I would far rather see and follow a buildup of a so-so flatcar than read about Manufacturer's X's new line of brass flats. (Couplers & trucks extra.) So the guy didn't get it quite 'right'. I don't care, it was interesting to see his techniques.
Les
Posted By Del Tapparo on 03/16/2009 9:08 AM
[edited]
I think it is going to take at least another 10 years before clubs are made up entirely of folks that are truly comfortable using computers.
Del,
Right on. A point I wanted to make in my post to Jerry and forgot.
Added after posting:
Re your comment about forum-users being more informed: Now, I have to admit to an age bias, myself, caused by finances and lack of wider interest. I already know what I like and don't, can afford and can't, and see no reason to change, so 'latest information' as an argument doesn't fly with me. If there are older members in your club, that may be a factor. (Sr. Citizens, aka as 'old fogeys'.)
Concurrently, I like to be aware of other facets of the hobby where there's some connection, see above, so long as it isn't overly troublesome. Again, that's the value of sites like MLS. A good 'fer instance, the guy who did the repaint on those two Dismal switchers/goats/whatevers that carrried your lettering (I hope I'm not confused and putting my foot in it) now that was interesting because as I get nearer to building, I want to contact you about decals/dry xfers, whatever they call 'em nowadays. And those were good-looking machines, even to a dedicated steam critter fan.
[edited]
I think it is going to take at least another 10 years before clubs are made up entirely of folks that are truly comfortable using computers.
Del,
Right on. A point I wanted to make in my post to Jerry and forgot.
Added after posting:
Re your comment about forum-users being more informed: Now, I have to admit to an age bias, myself, caused by finances and lack of wider interest. I already know what I like and don't, can afford and can't, and see no reason to change, so 'latest information' as an argument doesn't fly with me. If there are older members in your club, that may be a factor. (Sr. Citizens, aka as 'old fogeys'.)
Concurrently, I like to be aware of other facets of the hobby where there's some connection, see above, so long as it isn't overly troublesome. Again, that's the value of sites like MLS. A good 'fer instance, the guy who did the repaint on those two Dismal switchers/goats/whatevers that carrried your lettering (I hope I'm not confused and putting my foot in it) now that was interesting because as I get nearer to building, I want to contact you about decals/dry xfers, whatever they call 'em nowadays. And those were good-looking machines, even to a dedicated steam critter fan.
Posted By Dougald on 03/16/2009 7:27 AM
Who else other than G scalers are reading here??
...
Regards ... Doug
me ! i'm an avid n scaler. 350 locos, 3500 cars.
years ago my better half forced me into g-scale. but since i no longer have a backyard to run my trains most of them are gone.
Who else other than G scalers are reading here??
...
Regards ... Doug
me ! i'm an avid n scaler. 350 locos, 3500 cars.
years ago my better half forced me into g-scale. but since i no longer have a backyard to run my trains most of them are gone.
Subject: It's cold out and I was thinking...
That is my darwinian opinion of the evolution of the western world.
Evolve into Large Scale !
Andrew
That is my darwinian opinion of the evolution of the western world.
Evolve into Large Scale !
Andrew
Is it possible that:
The larger scales are attracive to older folk (where's my specs) that are not neccessarily computer equipt ?
The newby's have been seduced by the WOW factor and are still meddling about with the goofy scale thing ?
The die hard 'other scalers' that have always been there ain't goin to change for very good reason ?
Where and the 'F' am I goin to put all this stuff in mom's house ?
Dunno, Andrew
The larger scales are attracive to older folk (where's my specs) that are not neccessarily computer equipt ?
The newby's have been seduced by the WOW factor and are still meddling about with the goofy scale thing ?
The die hard 'other scalers' that have always been there ain't goin to change for very good reason ?
Where and the 'F' am I goin to put all this stuff in mom's house ?
Dunno, Andrew
Well, you hit the nail square on the head re 'older folks and larger scale but not computer knowledgeable' with me.
I'm a sorta noob, no layout yet but about two year's worth of time on this board, reading books, etc, but I have a pretty solid background in electronics/electrical & machining. Still trying to collect enough info--I may finally have saved enough money--to start.
I dunno if other scalers will change. I know that I want three different gauges, all scaled @ F scale, and have received some excellent advice & suggestions. Looking at the prices, it's a darn good thing I wanted to scratchbuild, because most of the prices are out of my reach. But as someone else said, 'for what you're getting, the prices are fairly okay'. For a guy in a different scale to change, it means so much in the way of buildings and off-track stuff would have to be done away with.
I seriously looked at S gauge/scale last winter, for awhile. But a little pencil scratching told me that it'd be too small for my aging fingers to build anything with. And those prices are not cheap at all, for scale stuff.
Les
I'm a sorta noob, no layout yet but about two year's worth of time on this board, reading books, etc, but I have a pretty solid background in electronics/electrical & machining. Still trying to collect enough info--I may finally have saved enough money--to start.
I dunno if other scalers will change. I know that I want three different gauges, all scaled @ F scale, and have received some excellent advice & suggestions. Looking at the prices, it's a darn good thing I wanted to scratchbuild, because most of the prices are out of my reach. But as someone else said, 'for what you're getting, the prices are fairly okay'. For a guy in a different scale to change, it means so much in the way of buildings and off-track stuff would have to be done away with.
I seriously looked at S gauge/scale last winter, for awhile. But a little pencil scratching told me that it'd be too small for my aging fingers to build anything with. And those prices are not cheap at all, for scale stuff.
Les
Well...
The last time anyone ran any sort of "in depth" poll I was one of only six 16mm scale modellers and (to be honest) I think that I am the last sole survivor here using SM32. I have moved up into Gauge 3 -which is a real minority and (again) I am quite probably the only person here using it. I think even if stuff that I wanted was available commercially -I would still have been a scratch builder. What I have started to wonder about is the type of locos that are appearing commercially -now that I have built them.
It would be nice to think that my humble scratch builds have opened up eyes -to what is out there.
regards
ralph
The last time anyone ran any sort of "in depth" poll I was one of only six 16mm scale modellers and (to be honest) I think that I am the last sole survivor here using SM32. I have moved up into Gauge 3 -which is a real minority and (again) I am quite probably the only person here using it. I think even if stuff that I wanted was available commercially -I would still have been a scratch builder. What I have started to wonder about is the type of locos that are appearing commercially -now that I have built them.
It would be nice to think that my humble scratch builds have opened up eyes -to what is out there.
regards
ralph
Posted By ralphbrades on 03/18/2009 2:14 PM
Well...
[edited]
What I have started to wonder about is the type of locos that are appearing commercially -now that I have built them.
It would be nice to think that my humble scratch builds have opened up eyes -to what is out there.
regards
ralph
Well, a demonstration (demonstrator) is worth 100,000 letters begging some manufacturer to produce a certain model, I would think.
What I don't think is that the word 'humble' should be used in connection with your work.
Les
Well...
[edited]
What I have started to wonder about is the type of locos that are appearing commercially -now that I have built them.
It would be nice to think that my humble scratch builds have opened up eyes -to what is out there.
regards
ralph
Well, a demonstration (demonstrator) is worth 100,000 letters begging some manufacturer to produce a certain model, I would think.
What I don't think is that the word 'humble' should be used in connection with your work.
Les
Its too bad the BTS went multi-scale, this poll would have been a good one to have at the show with the general population, just have John Q Public walking the show check off a few simple boxes, probably get a better idea of just whats involved numberwise in our hobby.
BTW - Indoors, Bash, Scratch and RTR
BTW - Indoors, Bash, Scratch and RTR
Large Scale,
You can see all the rusty bits.
There is the train concept, then there is the detail, the SOUL.
You can use real wood that looks like real wood.
You can use a corregated can to make a corregated roof.
Is that real rust ?
We live in a retail world that provides almost everything but soul.
Our modelling can become a subsciption to manufacturers.
They love trains too, they are there to make an investment, they create a beginning fior us.
We are individuals that have imperfections and folly, just like the real thing.
WE ARE THERE !
Andrew
You can see all the rusty bits.
There is the train concept, then there is the detail, the SOUL.
You can use real wood that looks like real wood.
You can use a corregated can to make a corregated roof.
Is that real rust ?
We live in a retail world that provides almost everything but soul.
Our modelling can become a subsciption to manufacturers.
They love trains too, they are there to make an investment, they create a beginning fior us.
We are individuals that have imperfections and folly, just like the real thing.
WE ARE THERE !
Andrew
Wow another can of worms popped open here. I think a poll would be very interesting the only trouble is, and it has been stated here, is that many G scale guys don't have computers and I would think that some that do have no idea that this forum exists. For example until recently I didn't know there was another forum for large scalers. I have heard of some guys that don't know about garden railways magazine. So I think a proper poll would be a very difficult thing to get actual numbers but it would be interesting to find out how many people have layouts, have equipment, or just dreaming, etc....
In my original question I was looking for a hypothetical idea or maybe an educated opinion of numbers give or take a few thousand or even 10 thousand as to how many people actually either collect G or operate it on a permanent layout or even just around the tree come december. Another angle that I suggested was the sheer amount of equipment that the manufacturers turn out every year. I personally have around 50 pieces and would like a few more but I'm not rushing out nor can I justify spending several hundred dollars on the latest engine no matter how awesome it is but there are many people who do and can else the manufacturers wouldn't continue to make them. It is supply and demand and I think there are possibly hundreds of thousands of G scalers out there clamoring for the latest and greatest engine, sound system, new aristo controller etc... etc.... thus driving the companies to keep making stuff and to keep making a profit.
What say you? In the good ole USA is there 100,000, 250,000, or more G scalers out there???
Todd
In my original question I was looking for a hypothetical idea or maybe an educated opinion of numbers give or take a few thousand or even 10 thousand as to how many people actually either collect G or operate it on a permanent layout or even just around the tree come december. Another angle that I suggested was the sheer amount of equipment that the manufacturers turn out every year. I personally have around 50 pieces and would like a few more but I'm not rushing out nor can I justify spending several hundred dollars on the latest engine no matter how awesome it is but there are many people who do and can else the manufacturers wouldn't continue to make them. It is supply and demand and I think there are possibly hundreds of thousands of G scalers out there clamoring for the latest and greatest engine, sound system, new aristo controller etc... etc.... thus driving the companies to keep making stuff and to keep making a profit.
What say you? In the good ole USA is there 100,000, 250,000, or more G scalers out there???
Todd
Todd,
Not a can of worms, just some folks wondering the same thing you are.
I am working on a poll. If I can get it worded okay, I'll post it here first, for suggestions, then post it over on the poll board, if the site software will let me do that.
Les
Not a can of worms, just some folks wondering the same thing you are.
I am working on a poll. If I can get it worded okay, I'll post it here first, for suggestions, then post it over on the poll board, if the site software will let me do that.
Les
Well Les,
I can tell you that in the UK there are: 6,000+ members of the 16mm Narrow Gauge Association, >200 members of the Gauge 3 Society, 500+ members of the National 2.5" Ga Association, G1MRA has in excess of 7,000 members...
Could I suggest that your "Poll" asks for Scale, Gauge and what other combinations you HAVE modeled in and would LIKE to model in?
regards
ralph
I can tell you that in the UK there are: 6,000+ members of the 16mm Narrow Gauge Association, >200 members of the Gauge 3 Society, 500+ members of the National 2.5" Ga Association, G1MRA has in excess of 7,000 members...
Could I suggest that your "Poll" asks for Scale, Gauge and what other combinations you HAVE modeled in and would LIKE to model in?
regards
ralph
I would think Garden Railways is not as popular in Europe (especially non English and European rolling stock) as it is here and the 100,000 number is very conservative.
LGB sales for Germany were very high compared to the rest of the world, USA LGB sales were 2nd highest in the article I saw several years ago.
Then there is the people that started long ago and no longer need to spend lots of $$$ as they have established RR's and no more space to store these large trains.
I remember the deals 6 years ago in the USA on the toy train line with hundreds of sets sold in stores locally. Where did these go as no club is this large.
LGB sales for Germany were very high compared to the rest of the world, USA LGB sales were 2nd highest in the article I saw several years ago.
Then there is the people that started long ago and no longer need to spend lots of $$$ as they have established RR's and no more space to store these large trains.
I remember the deals 6 years ago in the USA on the toy train line with hundreds of sets sold in stores locally. Where did these go as no club is this large.
21 - 36 of 36 Posts
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