[lownote]

I recently picked up a couple of these in stainless. Besides the power issues, which I'm not sure how to deal with, it's really clear that the frog is too deep or the point of the frog is too short. The wheels drop down into the frog and because the flangeway guiderails are much too wide--really too wide--the wheels can flop around in the frog.

I added strips of .30 brass to the guiderails, to hold the wheels closer to the outside rail

Train-li sells an "aristocraft switch improvement kit" which I ordered sight unseen because I'm so impressed with the Train Li track bender. The kit turns out to be a "y" shaped stainless steel insert that goes into the frog and raises the "floor" of the frog so that the wheels roll through on the flanges. It's extremley effective--I tested it with some Aristo and LGB and Bachmann wheels and it completely solved the problem of the wheels dropping into the frog without adding any "bump."

 

[Greg Elmassian]

Yes, actually there are several versions of the #6, so check yours before you add a shim to the guardrail. The latest versions have a proper guardrail flangeway width.

The geometry of the frog is wrong, and it's basically impossible to fix this, so the only easy fix is to fill the wing rail flangeways with a plate, or some people have used epoxy or jb weld.

My understanding is that Train-Li stopped production of these plates, I need a few. Did they resume production or did you buy yours long ago.

Regards, Greg

 

[aceinspp]

Failing to correct the flange depth on the frog eventually causes the wing rail to wear excessively. Once this occurs you will find hard to fix. Making it a flange bearing frog as lownote did corrects this condition. Hopefully these parts are still available from Trains-Li Later RJD

 

[lownote]

I just bought two of them last week, got no word on production being canceled. If I bought more of these switches I would definitely want the little plat.


I have one pair of Gary raymond "finescale" BB wheels, and those still drop into the frog. But they have been retired from use

 

[Greg Elmassian]

Production was being cancelled at one point. I talked to Axel and he told me that he had heard the #6 problem was fixed. I told him they improved the guardrail, but there were still problems with the frog and to please not cancel the kit for the #6. This was about a year or maybe a little less ago.

I won't take the credit for this action, but Axel will remember the conversation with me.

Regards, Greg

 

[lownote]

Good work then. It's nicely designed little item, and works perfectly with the oversized flanges on most wheels.

I shimmed the guard rails, but even shimmed with .030 brass they are too wide, I think--need to see how they operate for a while. And the transition into the guard rail is too abrupt--these must be the first generation switches, because it's just a piece of straight rail. If it's a problem in operation I'll have to get some stainless rail, drill it, tap it, and install replacements




On ebay you can find waterproof type micro switches, button type, that look as if they would be a good replacement for the aristo switch. I wonder how waterproof they are?


http://cgi.ebay.com/10-Mini-Micro-Switches-Water-Proof-Type-19-8x6-4x10-6mm_W0QQitemZ380045317216QQcmdZViewItemQQptZBI_Automation_Components

 

[Greg Elmassian]

Mike, after your shimming, what is the width of your flangeway? It should be around the target of 0.106 .... if it's there, I would double check your wheel back to back spacing.

All that said, you are now left with the poor geometry of the frog, that lets the wheel drop into the frog. With the plate, it will not drop further than riding on the flange, but now you have the basic problem with flange bearing frogs: if your flange is too small in diameter, the wheel still drops into the frog and bangs on the wing rails and the frog point.

Too large of a flange is not as bad, it just rolls through the frog and the wheel tread does not ride on the rails.

This is the fundamental reason I do not like flange bearing frogs. For now, it's the best idea for aristo #6, since the frog is not correctly designed to support the wheel tread.

Regards, Greg

 

[lownote]

I'll check it when get a chance. It really would benefit from a redesigned frog

 

[Greg Elmassian]

Yep, I had hoped that Axel would commission one, but the price might be very high for an all metal frog. I have a couple of his replacements for the Aristo WR switch, $40 each, but they are sweet!

Regards, Greg

 

[aceinspp]

If the condition is not corrected then this is the end result.

 

[Greg Elmassian]

I got my Train-Li inserts today, heres one upside down:

Here's the top side, poor focus, but you see the slight chamfer on the top. I agree with Mike, a more gentle chamfer is in order:

Regards, Greg

 

[aceinspp]

Boy I timed that just right I got the last four he had.

Later RJD

 

[Greg Elmassian]

Rats! I need 6 more!

I'm not telling you nuthin' next time!

Greg

 

[aceinspp]

Ha, as the saying goes he who hesitates looses. You hesitated

. f Later RJD

 

[Nohandles]

I just go a #6 wye stainless steel switch. Is there the same trouble on this configuration?

 

[Greg Elmassian]

Yep, geometry of frog just as poor.

Regards, Greg

 

[lownote]

I also find it irritating--although should have known this in advance--that if the train is entering the switch from the opposite side of the throw bar, e.g. you have to have the points switched in the direction the train is coming from, or else it shorts. I've been using mostly LGB 1600 series switches, or Aristo wide radius switches with LGB motors, and this is a new problem. It makes me want to automate the switch such that it can detect a train coming from a given direction, and switch the points in that direction ahead of the train. A have an LGB EPL Supplementary switch, which will do that, but here again it would be easier under DCC, I assume.

I haven't tried running with the frog unpowered, but that's where I might end up

 

[Nohandles]

Do any of you have pictures you can post of the improvement? It would be most appreciated. This switch is on the main loading track from the basement and will see a lot of duty.

 

[lownote]

The little insert fits in the frog, up against the sharp point. All it does is raise the "floor" of the frog so that the wheels ride through on the flanges, instead of dropping down into the frog. The result is a smooth transition across the switch, with no bumping.

 

[Nohandles]

I just on Train Li but didn find the part for the #6 wye. Will it fit?