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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have 4 work stations at home. A xp lap top, a linux server, a linux dev machine and another xp workstation. For some reason the only place I can log in from is my linux server. This is kind of a bummer.
I have tried reseting my username on each of the machines and each time I attempt to log on with the same password that works on this linux machine it says that my username or password is incorrect. Its been days since I changed the profile settings from each machine and still I cannot log on.
BTW, when I attempt to use the password forgot option, it doesn't recognize my username either.

Can anyone point me to a thread that can help?

Richard
 

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If it works on 1 machine, it should work on them all. Make sure that your web browser is accepting cookies from mylargescale.com...
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
It is, and it doesn't.
On the xp workstaiton I'm logged in when I open the browser, but it won't let me access the members website. It tells me that I have the username or the password wrong. I'm using the same password, I'm using now on this machine and it doesn't accept.
On the xp laptop I try to log on in the browser and it gives me the same error but offers me the forgot my password or username option. When I put in the valid email, it gives me the error that it can't send the email because its not in the database.
On the xp workstation, I can't even get the password sent. It just keeps sending me to the "Having trouble logging into your 1st class web space?..." page over and over again.
 

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Richard

I'm no expert, but from how you describe what you're doing. As long as you're on the server, which I believe is where your ISP connection is located, everything is fine. However, once you move off the server itself you run into problems, to me this indicates a validation mismatch within your network that's surfacing and pointing you in the wrong direction. Have you tried directly connecting one of the work stations to the ISP bypassing the server and see if that resolves the problem. If it does that would pretty well confirm what I'm saying, then you could figure out just where on your network the mismatch is.

Another possibility that it could be is the IP sharing access to the ISP. setup or configured incorrectly or maybe not supported by the ISP.

In going back and re-reading your second reply, have you tried manually deleting both the temporary Internet files and the cookies and/or the Favorites link if using one, on the machines that you are having problems on?
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
My server is setup as Gateway to the rest of my home network, So the IP is going to be the same as far as MLS is concerned. I don't know of any webserver application that will actually read the MAC address of a specific computer, so if there not out there being config to do that, I should be okay from a networking perspective.
And yes when in trouble on Windows, you only have 2 options I know of, and thats delete cach and cookies and/or hit the reset button ;)
 

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Hmmmm... I log in from multiple machines all the time (home and work) without a problem. I never log out on any of them.

On the xp workstaiton I'm logged in when I open the browser, but it won't let me access the members website. It tells me that I have the username or the password wrong. I'm using the same password, I'm using now on this machine and it doesn't accept.
On the xp laptop I try to log on in the browser and it gives me the same error but offers me the forgot my password or username option. When I put in the valid email, it gives me the error that it can't send the email because its not in the database.
On the xp workstation, I can't even get the password sent. It just keeps sending me to the "Having trouble logging into your 1st class web space?..." page over and over again.


Make sure that clearing the cache is actually clearing the cookies as well. You might also try clearing the history to delete all saved passwords, etc. Then start from scratch, and just for grins, set your browser to accept all cookies, at least temporarily as part of the diagnostic process.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Thanks Dwight, 12 years as an internet/software engineer has taught me to do those things automatically. But I refuse to do it on the XP workstation because once I do, I'm afraid I won't even be able to access the forums again, which are accessible on the xp workstation.
My question is, why should a cookie interfere with loging into the memebers web space? For one, my client is sending form information to the MLS servers, no cookie information is needed. I've designed a few we applications in my days and the cookie is usually there so the application can log the user in automatically. Its not an automatic login to the web space, it requires the correct information for two fields; the username and the password. As I said, I'm already logged in on the xp workstation because the cookie is working correctly. I just can't log in to the members web space. Funny thing is, I can still access my old email account on the xp workstation (with the same username and password). I can log in to the web space on my linux machine (web server/gateway)
I can't do any of those things on the xp lap top no matter how many times I clear cache and cookies.
I'll do a little more poking around on my end, but I'm at a loss here.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Is it possible, the email password and the user passwords are different? I just reset the password on my Firefox password manager and tried logging in with the wrong password. Then, I typed in the correct password and low and behold, I can no longer log in to my web space on any machine! GREAT! So I go to my profile to reset the password, but it won't let me do that either and there is no option to do an email reset or send a password.
Can I get some help from Shad on this. Shad, could you send me the password?
Richard
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Now for the very embarrassing part.
It was a password issue


My new password was so close to my old passwords that my mind was saying one thing, but my fingers were doing another thing altogether and typing out the old password. Thats what I get for typing so fast.
For some reason I can't explain, I was typing the right one for my webmail account which was never on Firefox password manager but typing the wrong one for the webspace and to log in, which were on password managers. I knew the new passwords, but my fingers have a mind of their own sometimes. Its the same way with the guitar. Sometimes I just set their picking away, not knowing what I'm picking and someone in the room will say, didn't so and so play that?
Play what,,, my fingers just move on their own,,,, I don't have a clue what song they are talking about.
 

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Richard - sounds like you (maybe) have it resolved. Cookies are used on MLS to log you on. Don't ask me why ('cause I don't know), but if cookies aren't either enabled generally or enabled for MLS via trusted sites or some other mechanism, you won't be able to log in even with the correct info. That's just the way the site and forum software are set up.
 

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Richard

Glad to hear that you got the problem resolved, isn't that always the way, the simple things always seem to bite you when you're not looking. If I had a nickel for every time it's happened to me I'd be a lot wealthier than I am.


While what you say about being the gateway is true, however, the fastest way to isolate where the problem lay is "divide and conquer." If you remove everything in your network and place the problem system in a direct connection and the problem remains. Then the problem is within that particular system or the individual operating it. On the other hand, if the problem no longer exists, then its cause lay somewhere within that which was removed.

As for what may or may not be being done by any given piece of software/firmware/microcode that resides between your specific station, up to and including the MLS server and its applications. In part, as an explanation of my mind-set and approach. I got involved in all this digital stuff from the hardware side back when the only thing used was assembly and the respective processor's/controller's instruction set. Well. actually it was back when the logic gates were actually still in their own separate discrete hardware packages. As a result, I don't take what the software and software people say as gospel by default, especially when what I'm seeing take place at the lowest level of the conversation between devices doesn't coincide.

As far as I've observed when you clear the local cache, the only things that are cleared are the temporary files and unless you specifically delete the cookies they remain. As for cookies themselves, there more than one (e.g. _utma, _utmb, _utmc, _utmv, _utmz etc. etc.), there are ones for the new forum software then there are others for access to the 1st Class web space based I believe on the old Snitz software.

Since you're using FireFox as your browser, if you go to the Tools menu and select Page Info, click the Security tab, then click the View Cookies button, you can see all the cookies that are on your system for both MLS systems. If you want to dig deeper into it there is an add-in for FireFox called DOM Inspector, although depending on which version of FireFox you're currently running (e.g. I'm currently at v3.0.3) the add-in may not yet be updated to work with your version yet.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Thanks Steve,
Logic Gateways, man thats old stuff. I started out in assembly too, but by that time, c had been widely introduced.
Isolating a network was the first thing I did on the lap top. I have a dsl router with 4 ports, so it was pretty simple thing to get right to the front of my home network.
Again, I dumped the cookies and the files.
What I didn't do was engage the brain while typing in passwd.
I don't know about you, but there was a time while working as sys admin that I had to remember 20 passwds and 50 ips. I got to the point where my fingers had logged in so frequently, I forgot the passwords unless I was right at the console typing them. If someone were to ask "whats the password to log in to Frodo" I would have to log into Frodo and watch my fingers. I think part of my brain stopped interpretting passwords and just remember what fingers to move and in what direction to move them in. Sort of like touch typing. If someone were to ask me what key is the A key on the keyboard, I'd have to look at the keyboard to tell them. But if I want to type an 'a' then my left pinky knows where it is and the intellectual process is ignored. My concious mind doesn't communicate to my hand push your left pinky down and you will hit the 'a' key.
My favorite mistake use to be after accidentally hitting the caps key and then trying to log in somewhere. I would get worried, because I thought my hands had forgotten the password, then I would look at the screen and realize everything I was typing was upper case.
 

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Posted By rkapuaala on 11/01/2008 3:05 PM
Thanks Steve,
Logic Gateways, man thats old stuff. I started out in assembly too, but by that time, c had been widely introduced.
Isolating a network was the first thing I did on the lap top. I have a dsl router with 4 ports, so it was pretty simple thing to get right to the front of my home network.
Again, I dumped the cookies and the files.
What I didn't do was engage the brain while typing in passwd.
I don't know about you, but there was a time while working as sys admin that I had to remember 20 passwds and 50 ips. I got to the point where my fingers had logged in so frequently, I forgot the passwords unless I was right at the console typing them. If someone were to ask "whats the password to log in to Frodo" I would have to log into Frodo and watch my fingers. I think part of my brain stopped interpretting passwords and just remember what fingers to move and in what direction to move them in. Sort of like touch typing. If someone were to ask me what key is the A key on the keyboard, I'd have to look at the keyboard to tell them. But if I want to type an 'a' then my left pinky knows where it is and the intellectual process is ignored. My concious mind doesn't communicate to my hand push your left pinky down and you will hit the 'a' key.
My favorite mistake use to be after accidentally hitting the caps key and then trying to log in somewhere. I would get worried, because I thought my hands had forgotten the password, then I would look at the screen and realize everything I was typing was upper case.


I can identify with every bit of that! Some systems would not accept numbers in a password others required at least one, some ignored case, others didn't, some had to have more than 12 characters others could not be more than 8. Some systems automatically changed the password once a month and told me what it was... usually random gibberish, sometimes a silly combinations of two real words. One system let me pick the password from a generated list of nonsense, but pronounceable, words... I used to spend a whole afternoon trying another set of silly words just for the humor of what it would spell. "Doctardy", "UnaEatThis", "BimpSqek"... somewhere around here I have a long list of some of the better ones, I'd generate a bunch and then use them on other systems... but my absolute favourite was "DataRia"... sure fit with the job I was doing at the time!!!!!! It had a really bad case of "Dataria".

Remembering passwords was relegated to just the hands, not the brain, I suppose the eyes told the hands were we were so they would know what to type!

On my desk were three mice, three keyboards and three monitors, one monitor split (on screen) between two minicomputers (one keyboard dedicated to that monitor and followed the cursor for which computer the keystrokes went to), the other monitors serving two PCs each (with switch boxes to determine which one) and one flat panel for my main PC on the network and a PC (or 2) on cart(s) next to my desk for software development of a test station so I could wheel it out to the factory when I thought I had the I/O drivers right (they didn't allow food in the factory and I needed my Coke (tm) and Twinkies (tm) to program, besides I could not even think on a bench stool at a test console with just barely a square foot of space for paperwork, manuals and reference documents. Out in the factory were dozens of test stations, each with some permutation of a "standard" password so other authorized people could eventually figure them out if I got run over by a truck or got sick with a bad case of Dataria!

My hands knew where the keys were, my brain forgot what keys the fingers were hitting... and not just for passwords, either! When IBM changed the Function keys to be across the top of the keyboard I lost all ability to find them, now I seldom use the "F" keys due to that really bad placement... they belong on the left in two rows!!!! If someone telephoned me late at night to ask how to do something I had to hold my hands out in front of me, close my eyes and imagine typing, then open my eyes and see where my fingers were pointing, then try to remember what key was in that position... sometimes I had to tell them, "Its the third key down on the right side of the two columns, that'd be the second key in the second group of the "F" keys at the top of YOUR keyboard... I think... maybe...".

There is SOMETHING to be said FOR standards!
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Thanks Semper, I'm relieved to find that I'm not the only one who experiences these disassociations between actions and intellectual processes. I like the description of your work space,,, Mine was the same, only usually one more monitor for a linux machine or an Iris machine or a Solaris machine. Oh, and I prefered coffee and cheezits and for desert red licorice. Coke gave me too much gas :)" align="absmiddle" border="0" />
 

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I suppose you pulled your share of "Programming Marathons"?

I was on one project where there were three programmers assigned to one program on a large project we had (I got stuck with a program by myself), these fellows only worked 8 hours per day, but they had the day split up. One fellow worked from 8 to 4 and at 4 the next fellow came in, asked what had been done that day, then sat down and took up where the first one had left off, then at midnight the 3rd guy did the same and again at 8 AM the 1st fellow took over again. A year later I got stuck with software maintanence on their program and could tell in the code where each fellow took over, based on comments in the code and what temporary variables were defined. One guy always used "H7" for a scratch variable name, another always used "Z9" (the language only allowd the 26 letters of the alphabet and the numbers 0 to 9 appended to a single letter... yes, a VERY early language!) One fellow was told that indenting code made it easier to read, but he really didn't understand that at all, he would indent one line 9 spaces, the next line 3 spaces, the next line 17 spaces, the next 1 space... he would hit "Return" and whack the space bar a bunch of times and then type the text for the next line... it was terrible! just terrible!

On my project, I worked totally alone... 177,000 lines of code in a system that didn't have "cut and paste"... I typed every one of those lines! I remember one day, my wife called about 6 PM asking when I thought I'd be home. I said I had one more thing to do and I'd be home. I typed away and typed away. I ran into a small problem and needed some advice about something. I grabbed the documents and bolted out the door of the Lab headed to the Engineering department... the hall and other offices were all dark! Everybody was gone! It was 3:00 AM! I had not even noticed the guys at the other end of the Lab do their "changing of the guard" at midnight.

I realize we ain't supposed to bring religion into this forum, but I thank God I'm now retired!!!!! :))))))))))))))))))
 

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Richard

I can well understand the problem of disassociation between cognitive thought and physical action, and have been both guilty and victim of it many times too.

Although, being in the position of a field service representative standing in front of the customer at crunch time. Where it was expected that I would make the equipment perform the task for which it had supposedly been designed. I didn’t have to face exactly what you’re describing.

As an example of the type of equipment I’m referring to. One that fell into what I would classify as medium level of complexity was built for the U.S. Postal Service to support their entry to automation of letter sorting (c. 1980). It used a DEC PDP 11-23 as the process control-processor that interfaced to multiple Z-80 mprocessors (i.e. min. of 10 to a max. of 35, one for each module in the particular system), and also interfaced to 48 custom purpose-built mprocessors running in parallel used to perform the optical character recognition (OCR) of the digitized image that was created of the face of each envelope processed (i.e. within the 120 mSec. Window allotted).
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
I gotta say both of you have programming experience that far exceed my own. I didn't find myself professionally writting code till around 1990 after being laid off from the last cabinet shop I worked at. I had always dabbled in it as a cabinet maker, some assembly then some basic.
Finally when work ran out for craftsmen in CA (The big base closures hit our industry hard back in the late 80s and early 90s) I found work as a programmer. I worked with a small crew, me and another guy. He was writing in clarion (? either that or pascal, I can't remember which) and I was writing libraries for him in assembly. We frequently pulled 16 hour shifts and shared our code with each other using a BBC he ran from his workstation over a 24 baud modem. I use to set in a lazyboy with my feet up and the keyboard on my lap and the mouse on a side table. I would be a good 6 feet away from that 14" screen,,, no wonder my close up vision sucks now! I would get up after 16 hours of writing code and bits of cheezits would fall from my chest. My wife would say "If this is what I've got to look forward to now that you're a programmer, I hope you go back to making cabinets". She didn't complain much though, at least I was making money ;)
Eventually the internet opened up and by that time, I had expanded my code writing skills to include c, c++, PERL, cshell, bash, vrml, vream, java, etc..... then I found myself working for a small local internet company called red shift. I was their director of technology/general manager/head programmer. I spent equal times managing their operations and writing DB apps and shopping carts for the business customers.
The last 8 years I was tech ops manager for Knight Ridder Digital till they were bought out by McClatchy interactive.
When I worked for KRD I became more involved in applications engineering and management of personell and vendors and my involvement in programming and development was limited to reviewing functional design requirements, design and architecture documentation and occassionally code. It was nice to be pioneering the transition of the print media to the intenet, but I was sort of bored with the role I played.
The pay was good, but I missed programming and during that time I only wrote one significant application. It was an app that recovered miscategorized ads and restored them to the classifieds database in their correct tables. I was writing that under the guns so to speak because it was so vital to the papers acceptance of the online system. At the time, the papers, especially the classifieds were very opposed to online ads. They complained about the descripancies between their print ad system (which was also computerized) and our online system.
They had a good reason to complain, at the time each paper (28 of em) had a print system that interfaced with their own unique ad inventory software using various proprietary markup languages. Our tasks was to build several applicaitons that would run on their systems and convert their markup files to SGML and send that file to our servers. Then those files would be parsed by a natural language system that split the ads in to addtional sub categories to help refine the searchability of the ad. A good idea, but one dependent on the papers cooperation by communicating certain elements that we tokienized. Consequently when they added new categories or changed abreviations or acronyms, ads would get rejected by the NLP app or put in the wrong category. I designed the system to recover them and place them in their default category so that the papers customers could easily find them online.
I think that was my longest programming stint, 3 days solid. I say solid because the first 16 hours I worked from the office, and in the morning my boss told me to go home and get some sleep but I only managed to sleep a couple of hours when I got home. I was actually writing code in my sleep and when I woke I worked another 16 hours straight took another nap, woke up drove back to the office and finished the code, checked in the code and sent it to qa, by the close of business. I don't know how, but it ran with only one minor bug that I fixed the next day in 5 minutes. I'm proud to say that that app ran right up to the time I was laid off finally being retired when McClatchy approved the purchase of a new NLP app.
I thought cool, I'll be back in swdev again but I was told by my bosses that I was too valuable to be writing code. I think they just didn't want me to have fun while I worked. It was also during that time that they out sourced some of our more significant applications to Taiwan. Talk about poorly formatted and commented code! We pratically had to re-write the whole application over again. The work was so overwhelming for the Software Dev dept, some of that work got delegated to my ops team and indirectly to me (so as to "reach certain project milestones" I told my boss) I got to help untangle a small portion of that mess.
Personally I preferred formatting everything the way I did when I was writing assembly code. Which most people found difficult to read, but I did comment most of the stuff that looked too complex or esoteric for someone new to the project to understand. I don't think the Taiwanese programmers knew how to speak english, because if they did, they sure didn't comment much of the code and the comments they did write were for obvious bits of the code. And talk about poor formatting. Jesus, they would start out okay. All there includes in a line, the inits in the same line separated by a double carriage return. Then things got crazy. They started indenting the first algorithm and then any initialized variable and then every expression untill you were finall scrolling over to the right for every just to read the rest of the code. I finally wrote a shell script to parse the code into something easier form to read. It went something like this:
#!/bin/bash
Name_of_file=$1
cp ${Name_of_file} $1.bak
/usr/bin/perl -pi -e 's/^[\s\t]*//g' ${Name_of_file}
It was all justified to the left, but it was a h311 of a lot easier to read

After that I only got to review code once in a great while. It was mostly a java shop any, and I'm not real found of java, I kept telling myself, so it was no big deal. I had my hands full as an apps engineer anyway. I was constantly batteling with garbage collection configurations which left me with a very low opinion of Java especially how it managed memory. Because we were ops there were these constant battles with our ASP that I was engaged in on a daily basis, then anual employee reviews, goals reviews, profit sharing reviews, bandwidth reports, desciplinary actions, assessments and the list goes on. I sort became a code voyeur by then and never really got back the licks.
Since I've been laid off, I have written a few apps for myown site, but my passion for code has somewhat deminished and I find myself reluctant to sit at the console all day writing code anymore. You wouldn't think it, but my knees and feet would actually get sore from sitting for hours typing thousands of line of code. If I stay at the computer for more than an hour anymore, I feel all stiff and have to move around. My eyes get sore.
 
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