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Discussion Starter #1
Monday, March 22, 2010

Hi:

Are the HLW 15601 bobber caboose and the Aristo 1:24 scale C-16 scale size compatable ?
LGB made a bobber caboose but it was scaled too large. HUGE. Really nice interior detail though.

http://www.h-l-w.com/Products/caboose.html

Is there any interior detail to the HLW bobber caboose ?



15601
Caboose - Undecorated
 

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The HLW bobber is roughly 1:24 scale. It is similar to the bobber Delton proposed (but never produced), but lacks the ladder and grab iron detail Delton would have provided. There is no interior, but I believe that most of these cars do have clear material glued behind the windors. I have two of these cabooses. One I run with various trains, and it looks fine with the Delton/Aristo C-16s. The other is a bank, and I use it to save up for ECLSTS and other train purchases. I purchased a set of MDC/Roundhouse caboose ladders and railings several years ago, and plan to add them to my HLW "runner" caboose someday.

Hope this helps,
David Meashey
 

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Norman;

My phrase "but I believe that most of these cars do have clear material glued behind the windors." Its supposed to end with the word "windows." Sorry about that. Must have seen the typo too late to edit it.

David M.
 

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Norman,
Hartland's bobber is OK, but I like Bachmann's or MDC's. MDC's (or the new Piko) sit closest to the top of the cab in an almost exact match. Bachmann is next tallest, with only slightest difference in the MDC. LGB is the tallest, sitting just a lttle less than 1/4 above cab. All will work. I kind of like Hartland's drover's caboose, too.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Hi Ted:

I had the yellow LGB C&S caboose. To me, the LGB bobber caboose looked hopelessly huge. Was I wrong? I traded it in at a dealer. Too bad it was so large, nice interior detail.

Is the HLW bobber caboose of the correct scale? That is the correct design for a C&S bobber caboose. Why doesn't HLW letter it as C&S ?

Thank you

Norman
 

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Norman,
You are correct, the LGB is the largest of the group discussed. The Hartland is the smallest of the bunch. LGB is the only one with interior detail. Not sure of exact scale of Hartland, but likely 1:24, same as the C-16. The bobber by Hartland seems a little smaller than their other 1:24 scale stuff, but the original bobber is not a large caboose. Check out the Hartland drover's caboose as I think it is lettered for the C & S. I have the Rio Grande version of it and like it very well. It is in the same shade of paint as the Aristo long caboose and Classic Line of rolling stock. Length wise, it is about an inch to inch and half less than the Aristo long caboose. It has character!
LGB and Bachmann scale is around 1:22.5 and Hartland and Aristo Classic line are around 1:24. I say around because some makers take a little liberty here and there. But they are pretty close to those stated scales. Run what YOU like, but I mix LGB, Bachmann, Aristo Classic Line, and Hartland often. I do not go for the 1:20 scale stuff as it is MUCH to large for ME. If you think some piece of rolling stock is too big, then go for something else. As I have stated in other posts, it is YOUR railroad and run what YOU like!
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Thursday, March 25, 2010

Hi Ted:

A while back, I came across a historic photo of a cowboy standing on the rear platform of the C&S bobber caboose.
The cowboy was hunched over a bit as his head would otherwise hit the roof above the rear platform. Now that is a small caboose !

Having seen that historic photo really makes the LGB bobber caboose look ridiculously large to me. Maybe LGB used their rubber band scale ruler on this caboose in order to add interior detail. Possibly it is a 1:20.3 scale bobber caboose?

I own a Bachmann 4-4-0 1:20.3 loco. Fortunately, the prototype is small so the model does not overpower the Aristo C-16 1:24 model. Actually works out really nice with the 1:22.5 passenger cars and the 1:24 Aristo C-16.

When I first viewed the Bachmann Connie, I thought that thing is HUGE ! Never bought one and obviously I won't be buying the Bachmann K-27.

The current street price of the Bachmann Forney is almost the same as the Bachmann K-27 ???????
The three truck Shay can now be bought for around 350.00 from St Aubin as can the E&P 4-4-0 . Compare that to 650.00 .
Furthermore, you can now buy a live steam brass Accucraft Forney for the price of the Bachmann Forney. That really says it all.

Something went askew in the marketing department at Bachmann. Glad that the Forney is 1:20.3 and doesn't fit in with 1:24 so that I am not too tempted. Still, I like the inside frame version.

Dave Fletcher really has a clear mind and is able to overview this scale mess. 1:24 should have remained the narrow gauge scale to provide reasonable sized models with 1/8" inch reduced guage track and wheel sets available for fine scalers.

But in the standard gauge world, I really like 1:29 for the wow factor even though 1:32 should have been adopted.

It is all a mess and that was a big mistake on the part of the manufactures as the large perfectionist HO group were discouraged from moving up to largescale. The large scale manufactures missed out on the aging perfectionist type HO group market. Personally, I found that the HO perfectionists sucked out all the fun of model trains. Nothing was ever right. The passenger car had one too many windows for that prototype railroad, that railroad never had that locomotive but yet the huge can motor occupying the whole interior of the brass locomotive cab is "prototypical" !

My only real frustration with largescale is LGB. The models were of the highest quality, great paint jobs and yet the scale is all over the place from model to model. A German dealer explained to me that LGB is a toy company and that they never made the leap from toys to models. I guess something like Lionel non scale 027 trains? The Bachmann 12 window coach is a far better design than the LGB coach. At least the number of windows on the car side matches the number of windows on the roof! But the Bachmann coach paint is no where near as good as the LGB coach paint. That LGB DRGW "yellow" is great. But I don't own any LGB coaches as the number of roof windows really bugs me.

So in summary, I like the LGB C&S bobber but I think it is way too large for the Aristo C-16. By prototype inspection, is not a bobber far smaller than a two truck caboose? Yet the LGB bobber is far larger than the Aristo Classics two truck caboose.

I like the HLW drover caboose. A SR&RL prototype which never ran on the C&S but neither did the Aristo Classics two truck caboose. However, it it is expensive. I have become spoiled with China mfg cost priced trains.
Which leads me to think, the Delton C-16 product must have been far more expensive in its day relative to present the Aristo C-16 product mfg in China and people are complaining about the free caboose enclosed with the latest C-16.

Now that is spoiled!

Norman
 

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Shorter, not always smaller. And remember, some four wheel cars got trucks later in life, the PRR N6A and N6B cabs due to the law change in Ohio outlawing 4 wheel cars. The bodies were made longer, but the rest of the dimensions are the same (doors, height, etc.)
 

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well
i no longer own a c-16
but i do have the HLW bobber

its really small
but would probably match rather nicely
solid feel
good plastic
no interior


i use it with my LGB chloe and olomano -they are tiny
i dont use it with my porter or any other sized LGB loco


it is almost the same size as the LGB FRR passenger cars-if any of these comparisions help



it passable if youre not too fussy about size-and you guessed it! im not
even figures -preiser, plain folks, etc dont really fit under teh roof or on the platform

(and fwiw-i have stood on the platform of the bobber at silver plume and im 5-9 and there clearance between my head and the roof)

to me the hLW stuff simply have wrong looking wheel boxes and the axel spacing is too wide
i havent tried to detail it or dress it up other than paint-they are hopelessly simple in many aspects-but do the job-they are "1:24" and they just look wierd and small -but i still bought one and use it with my LGB FRR stuff

they run pretty well-i find the wheels rub a bit on curves, along a plastic post molded into the underframe which i think is there to keep the wheel sets more or less centered and the axle point in the frame

HLW hook and loop couplers are stiff

might i also suggest an overlooked caboose that i think is quite nice, the LGB toy train bobber
about the same height as the LGB bobber but a bit shorter-so it might overwhelm the c-16 in height-the cupola is the best LGB ever put on a bobber imho -paints up and details rather well -needs glazing after you paint it tho as it does not come with any, nor any interior
 

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Steve;

The LGB ToyTrain caboose also works into a tolerable good caboose with dual trucks and Kadee couplers. The European brake hoses can be tweaked to look more like North American hardware.



Yours,
David Meashey
 

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I see the Hartland site says they are G scale, which my research tells me is the LGB scale, which is 1:22.5. Note that LGB also makes a smaller scale for North American trains, which I am only guessing here, is 1:32 scale. Can anyone reading this post tell me if my information is correct, as I'm trying to find a 1:22.5 steam loco or 2 for my new #1 gauge layout.
 

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To use the word "LGB" and "scale" in the same sentence is highly contradictory. Much of their narrow gauge prototype stuff is nominally in the neighborhood of 1:22.5, but that "neighborhood" can run from 1:19 to 1:24ish give or take. Their "standard gauge" prototype stuff runs between 1:26 and 1:29ish. The overarching premise behind LGB's models is for all of them to be nominally the same physical size so they look good in the garden running together in the same train, regardless of the gauge of the prototype--along with further compromises introduced such that the models will fit around a 2' radius (4' diameter) curve. They've built models of prototypes from 2' gauge all the way to standard gauge--all ending up being about the same physical size. Good, bad--it is what it is.

Bottom line with LGB - if you like it, buy it. They make some beautiful stuff. Just make sure if you're going to start comparing the model to known prototype dimensions, you use a flexible scale ruler.

Later,

K
 

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yup what kevin said

g is now used as generic "hey if you use 45mm track we sell what you can use"-its no longer strictly LGB 1;22.5

second
the US stuff from LGB varied-
the DRGW davenport is 1:20 or so,
as is the amazing porter -i have re3ad its dead on perfect at 1;20-the german made ones are nice

the white pass diesel-1:22 but a 'bit' short

moguls seem, to me, dead on 1;22
as are the forneys
and as are olomano and chloe -the tiny hawaiian sugar cane locos


F-7 about 1:26 im told
as is the genesis -dont think its as small as 1;29 at all

simply, imho, short of the genesis, most lGB stuff will be 'close enough' to 1;22

the rail truck.....im a thinking 1:20-ish
-its hard to tell, but its short and chunky and sorta close to the 1;18 die casts

the european models they made seem far more accurately proportioned and usually 1;22

the more i learn about stuff , the less fixed are my perceptions of what is modeling, and what is toy-like


im sorta an advocate for the LGB stuff simply because its so robust-and while i can fix and build, i dont like to be forced to by broken stuff

i don thtink youll go wrong, even with the little americanized stainz and powered tender (which is i think about 1;20 oddly enough-given its the flagship-the stainz thhat is-and ive never seen any prototype for either the euor or US version of the litlle 0-4-0 with powered tender-but i still like them a great deal for reliability and simplicity and pulling-i see past the flaws now, it reminds me of mexican stuff or even a loco at the Forney museum or at disneyland-)

the best generalization about LGB for me is think shorter and thus seemingly higher than the prototypes-sometimes-other times they are very accurate with certain models
because they are shorter -they run on tighter curves and points, and you can use shorter sidings etc,
its a compromise-and thus it depends on how you can live with this
i have acquiesced to this long ago and im happy with it


they do run nicely on rough track and are quite good for real garden use with few problems

you know so much depends on what flavor you like-mainline or branch, narrow gague etc

i think its very hard to be unhappy with the mogul and the forney (preferably a german one if you can find one-the plastic is tougher)
both pull pretty well, run smoothly, and are simply good small steam locos

the little US style 0-4-0 (2015 or 2017) -is simply dinky-and doesnt look quite plausible with larger LGB nmrrow gauge cars, but could with say 20-26 ft style cars

somehow when they are running in the garden, in the sun or rain, or at dusk, through real trees , grass, and plants, and pine needles,
even the silly colors look ok to me, and the more prototypical ones look even better
 
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