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Discussion Starter #1
Hi I've encountered a problem in upgrading my DCS system from v3.1 to v4.1

The TIU upgrade went completely without hitch.

But now when it comes to the remote I am stuck in a loop....


I get to the message "Press and hold the power button and click OK
then immediately I get "release power button and press OK"
then I get the message again "Press and hold the power button and click OK
then immediately I get "release power button and press OK"
....and so on round and round.


at first I thought it was part of the process but after 20 iterations I realised something must be wrong!

It's definitely a telephone handset-to-base cord, and is 4-wire, and the DCS-loader has no problem talking to the TIU.

Has anyone got any suggestions what to try next? I've done the usual re-starting/power-cycling etc.
 

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I cant remember, but check the cable in the TIU (the stereo cable, not the phone cable) I think it is not suppose to be connected. I did it wrong one time and that was the issue. Imagine that, me not reading the directions!

Also reset the Remote completely.
 

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That's a really good suggestion, I've done that before myself. I seem to recall the computer couldn't find the TIU when I left my audio jumper wires in. (It's easy to forget)

I'm going to replicate this for when I document the steps for the website (as I've seen this too) in my case I recall it depended on whether or not you had the remote powered on already when you plugged it in and got started. I would try once with the remote turned off then connect it up then power the TIU up and follow the instructions and if that doesn't work turn the remote on first then follow the instructions. I believe you have to start with the remote off.

Let us know if any of these ideas work. Good luck!


Raymond
 

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oh, and another thing...you do have to be careful to hold the power button all the way down when it tells you to. If you slip, it resets the loading, exactly like you describe.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Thanks for these suggestions.

Here's what I've tried so far, all of them resulting in the same error as above.

Full reset of remote.
Power on TIU, power on remote, connect remote. (loader then does not find TIU.)
Power on remote, connect remote, power on TIU - (TIU found but same problem.)
Reset of TIU from remote menu.

I am able to read the version of the TIU from the remote - v4.10 (it does seem to stick on the page showing me this, for about 30 secs before I can get back to the main menu.)

Does anyone have the 3.10 version of the code they could email me by any chance? (please see my profile bio for email address.)
I would like to go back to v3.10 on the TIU, then try and upgrade the remote first.

And any other ideas to try also still welcome!

Thanks!
 

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Phil, I have the older DCS software versions posted on my website. You can go back if you want but try the below first, am certain it has to do with an issue you/we can control.

Try: Power on TIU, (remote off), connect remote, start loader remote update process, then press power button only when instructed. This is what I think I had to do.


Raymond
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Thanks for these suggestions.

Still no luck with fresh batteries or being very careful (plus imaginative!) in the order of powering up and connecting things. I can't think of a single variation I haven't tried now.

Two more hopes remain: the idea of downgrading and attempting to upgrade the remote first (perhaps a v4.1 TIU can't speak to a v3.1 remote over the cable? you never know.)
And the other; my cable is home made. I have ordered a factory assembled cable which should arrive in the next couple of days. I don't hold out too much hope that it is this; according to various sources on the internet a 9-pin RS232 serial simply has pins 2 to 8 wired straight through, which I have checked. Plus of course it was successful in upgrading the TIU....but again, you never know with these things. Despite binary being 1 or 0, computers are still a black art LOL!

I am getting slightly concerned now....my triplex should be arriving in the next couple of weeks and I wanted to be ready to quill that whistle!
 

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Hmmm... And you know the phone cord you are using in fact works ok on a corded phone? Is that a custom cord as well or premade?

You need to have the TIU upgraded first to 4.10 before you upgrade the remote.

I wouldn't think this is a problem with the serial cable either.

I still haven't gotten downstairs to redo this again myself to note the proper steps. I'll try and do that today.

Oh and you do have the remote plugged into the remote input port on the TIU and not the AIU port correct?


Raymond
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Posted By Rayman4449 on 03/01/2009 11:19 AM
Hmmm... And you know the phone cord you are using in fact works ok on a corded phone? Is that a custom cord as well or premade?

You need to have the TIU upgraded first to 4.10 before you upgrade the remote.

I wouldn't think this is a problem with the serial cable either.

I still haven't gotten downstairs to redo this again myself to note the proper steps. I'll try and do that today.

Oh and you do have the remote plugged into the remote input port on the TIU and not the AIU port correct?



Version upgrade order: I didn't realise that, I tried downgrading to 3.11 on the TIU but didn't as work as you would expect.

The telephone cord is from a working phone - it is definitely 4-wire. If I hold the plugs side by side the same way up the colored wires follow the same sequence left to right...is that correct?

The remote port is the 4-pole port the same end of the TIU as the RS232 - is that correct? (I ask this because my TIU is not in it's case but in a boxcar, so none of the ports are marked, and the case is in a drawer that is buried beneath furniture I am temporarily storing in my train shed due to a flood we had in the house recently....different story! :))

Cable - Although I have now upgraded, downgraded and upgraded again the TIU, this cable doesn't have a shield, it is made from 7 seperate single-insulated wires....maybe the remote upgrade requires different speed or...or something that is affected by not having a shield...so I am still hoping, against the evidence really, that the factory cable will make a difference.

What am I doing different to you guys? One thing is that you are possibly using the Aux power input? (from a wall plug with the DC jack) I am using 24v battery onto the fixed DC input 1. In operation, when out on the track, I use various voltages from 18v to 24v without a problem, but perhaps I need to use the Aux? (tho the instructions clearly say Fixed input 1 is an option for the upgrade process.)

Clutching at straws, here's some things I intend to try next:

Different phone cord. Do phones need all 4 wires? Could one of the cores be broken even tho the phone works?
New serial cable (should be arriving tomorrow)
Power from aux input (can this be AC or DC? 18v OK?)


Thanking you all for your time in helping me troubleshoot this,
 

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The phone port next to the serial is the right one.

Ok I think we may have found it. The proper sequence is if both are bottoms up and facing each other is straight across which is the opposite I think from what you are saying yours is. If that's the case I'm kind of surprised to hear these cables would ever be made differently.

What you are describing is this:

And from left to right, you have each left connector match, then the next and so on.




What you should have is continuity on each pin directly across from each other when you have them held like this:



Can you reconfirm which way yours is wired? Will have to make a note on this when I finally do a step by step writeup on how to upgrade the TIU and remote.

To answer your other question only two wires are actually needed. Not sure if it's the outter or inner pair.


Raymond
 

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Posted By fildowns on 03/01/2009 2:18 PM
Posted By Rayman4449 on 03/01/2009 11:19 AM
Hmmm... And you know the phone cord you are using in fact works ok on a corded phone? Is that a custom cord as well or premade?

You need to have the TIU upgraded first to 4.10 before you upgrade the remote.

I wouldn't think this is a problem with the serial cable either.

I still haven't gotten downstairs to redo this again myself to note the proper steps. I'll try and do that today.

Oh and you do have the remote plugged into the remote input port on the TIU and not the AIU port correct?



Version upgrade order: I didn't realise that, I tried downgrading to 3.11 on the TIU but didn't as work as you would expect.

The telephone cord is from a working phone - it is definitely 4-wire. If I hold the plugs side by side the same way up the colored wires follow the same sequence left to right...is that correct?

The remote port is the 4-pole port the same end of the TIU as the RS232 - is that correct? (I ask this because my TIU is not in it's case but in a boxcar, so none of the ports are marked, and the case is in a drawer that is buried beneath furniture I am temporarily storing in my train shed due to a flood we had in the house recently....different story! :)" src="http://www.mylargescale.com/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/smile.gif" align="absMiddle" border="0" />)

Cable - Although I have now upgraded, downgraded and upgraded again the TIU, this cable doesn't have a shield, it is made from 7 seperate single-insulated wires....maybe the remote upgrade requires different speed or...or something that is affected by not having a shield...so I am still hoping, against the evidence really, that the factory cable will make a difference.

What am I doing different to you guys? One thing is that you are possibly using the Aux power input? (from a wall plug with the DC jack) I am using 24v battery onto the fixed DC input 1. In operation, when out on the track, I use various voltages from 18v to 24v without a problem, but perhaps I need to use the Aux? (tho the instructions clearly say Fixed input 1 is an option for the upgrade process.)

Clutching at straws, here's some things I intend to try next:

Different phone cord. Do phones need all 4 wires? Could one of the cores be broken even tho the phone works?
New serial cable (should be arriving tomorrow)
Power from aux input (can this be AC or DC? 18v OK?)


Thanking you all for your time in helping me troubleshoot this,



I would bet your serial cable is ok. If it's upgrading the TIU then it should be fine.

On how I'm applying power, I don't use the Aux power port and just apply power like you are using just Fixed 1. Using the Aux isn't necessary for what we are doing.

I think we may have it with the phone cord.


Raymond
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Yes!

This could be it Raymond!

Look, my cores are different in my cable, they do not match when facing eachother:


Wow I hope this is it....I will hack into this cord tomorrow and re-wire....whatever the result, thanks for your help!
 

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Some telephone cables reverse the wires and some don't! Some phones will work okay with either and some won't! Phones will work FOR AUDIO with either cable and some won't dial (push button type, but rotary dial will) or won't ring with one or the other cables... depends on whether there is some other cable that is not reversed or not.

You only need two of the 4 wires for phone service... the Red and black (I think I remember them being). The Orange was used to ground the ringer and could have a switch inserted in it to shut off the ringer. Today that no longer works (on most modern phones).

Look REAL close at the plugs on your cable. Be SURE you have them oriented the same way visually and then look at the color of the wires from left to right. You might find them to be opposite sequence or not.


EDIT: No it is RED and GREEN for the phone. I used to have 2 lines in my house and used the Orange and black for the 2nd line and had circuit swapper devices to change line 1 to 2 and 2 to 1 so a single line phone could be attached to either line based on whether the swapper was in the line or not.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
SUCCESS!!

What a relief that is! I suddenly remembered the problems I had years ago with imported modems and their cables when I worked at a PC component supplier....so thanks for your quick response Raymond in showing me your cable.

Ready for quilling hehe!!


Raymond, use these pics for your helper page...

http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/fildowns/MTHDCSTheWrongRemoteCable#

...the cable NOT to use!!


Thanks once again all those taking time to respond!!
 

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Discussion Starter #16
To coincide with getting the upgrade running and needing to test the system once the TIU was back in the boxcar, I also had one of the new Flip Mino HD camcorders to try (not mine unfortunately, borrowed from work for the weekend.)

I could hear the sound fine but it's not come over on the recording too well. And I forgot to blow the whistle!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ChPLAbJS580
 

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That's great, glad it worked!

Thanks for posting the link for the evenutal writeup.

Video came out pretty good I think. Thanks for posting.

Really ironic, I've been looking at HD cameras myself the past two days. Can't decide what to go with....


Raymond
 
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