[joe rusz]

So let's see, in the latest Garden Railways we have an excellent article by our own Marty Cozad, "Corporate Identity for Garden Railroads," a subject I have never had to guts to approach on MLS for fear of offending someone. Next, we Bruce Chandler's piece on "Making some working gladhands," which is about as anal as you can get about modeling (and I mean that in a positive way). Then we have Jack Verducci's latest missive--"Structures:creating a plan," which again is about as nuts-and boltsy as most guys whose posts I read want to get. And, need I add, that Verducci is among a handful a really great large-scale modelers who has built an incredible garden railway of his own, not to mention dozens of layouts for wealthy customers throughout the country. So tell me Mark, how can you look at this package and say, "The rest of the content is largely useless?"

Here's the deal, Mark, Garden Railways is a magazine for large-scale railroaders of every stripe, not just rivet counters like me, or whimsical modelers who enjoy seeing their own version of Thomas the Tank Engine go round & round beneath a waterfall (with gnomes) or a Christmas tree. They're in the hobby for fun, not to criticize everyone who doesn't measure up to expectations.

BTW, I think you owe Cozad an apology.

 

[Guest]

Posted By joe rusz on 08/30/2008 10:39 PM
So let's see, in the latest Garden Railways we have an excellent article by our own Marty Cozad, "Corporate Identity for Garden Railroads," a subject I have never had to guts to approach on MLS for fear of offending someone. Next, we Bruce Chandler's piece on "Making some working gladhands," which is about as anal as you can get about modeling (and I mean that in a positive way). Then we have Jack Verducci's latest missive--"Structures:creating a plan," which again is about as nuts-and boltsy as most guys whose posts I read want to get. And, need I add, that Verducci is among a handful a really great large-scale modelers who has built an incredible garden railway of his own, not to mention dozens of layouts for wealthy customers throughout the country. So tell me Mark, how can you look at this package and say, "The rest of the content is largely useless?"
Here's the deal, Mark, Garden Railways is a magazine for large-scale railroaders of every stripe, not just rivet counters like me, or whimsical modelers who enjoy seeing their own version of Thomas the Tank Engine go round & round beneath a waterfall (with gnomes) or a Christmas tree. They're in the hobby for fun, not to criticize everyone who doesn't measure up to expectations.
BTW, I think you owe Cozad an apology.





UUUUMMMM what?????????/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/blink.gif
Nick...

 

[Duncan]

Nick,
I believe that Joe was suggesting that Mark should apologize to Marty...

 

[Guest]

Posted By Duncan on 08/30/2008 11:05 PM
Nick,
I believe that Joe was suggesting that Mark should apologize to Marty...

 

[MarkLewis]

I do owe Marty anything. I did not criticize his article. Get real!



Mark

 

[NTCGRR]

I'm lost, I don't see a problem. Mark and many others I see post on here and I feel I know them well. I don't worry about little things.

The bigger things to worry about is my 18 year old got MIP last night and now I have to deal with that. All four boys knows that I WON'T bail them out of jail.

 

[Schlosser]

I stopped my subscription to Garden Railways because the publisher thinks he can send me something I don't want and expects me to mail it back. So I buy it at the LHS, no address involved, and besides that gives me a "reason" to drop in.

Mark Lewis seems to think that the word 'Model' in the magazines title. No, it's about railways in the garden; whimsical or scale is not mentioned.

I graduated from Lionel back in 1948, tried O scale - room was only 8 feet by 40, long enough but not wide enough - so moved to HO. The rivet counters were well in control back then, but with constant moving, a loop or whatever had to suffice.

Enter G gauge and things got better; as the old saying goes, ANYTHING GOES. And going around in circles has one advantage, you can't get lost.

The other post has plenty of negativity; let's leave it there.

Art

 

[billsharron]

Well Guys,

I have to side with Mark up to a point! I am a long time subscriber and still subscribe, but I find little of interest anymore. Most of the plant articles don't work for my area. A lot of the articles are boring and seem to be very repetitive. I have on several occasions found myself having to look at the cover to be sure I picked up the latest issue. I usually look at the advertizing first As for enticing newcomers. I don't think so!! Especially the younger set. One young fellow (young fellow to me is a 18 to 40 something) )looked at my magazine and was shocked by the price of a locomotive which cost $695, He asked me about track prices, and......... well you know where that went!! He told me how many radio control automobiles he coud buy for the price of that locomotive and reminded me that he wouldn't need any track. He likes my layout, but even there he chokes on the cost of what I have. especially the cost of radio control and sound systems. I suggested the idea that he go with HO being cheaper and all, but I couldn't sell it. To me the magazine is a club news letter for senior citizens with a lot of money. I know I am not alone in these feelings, and I suspect many will not be critical for fear of getting flamed.

Overall I feel the magazine is way to eletist, and offers little or nothing for newcommers, but expensive layouts and products that they have little or no hope of ever getting. When that occurs we oldtimers in the club can only hope that the boomers behind us with money keep the hobby going. What are the stats on circulation? Up down? Static? Even Kalmbach realizes that going monthly would not be a good business decision.

I will probably keep subscribing to support the hobby, but I much prefer a venue where I can go online to MLS or the other great web sites and do a search for exactly what I need and get in many cases instant responses and ideas about what I am interested in! Even the advertizers have there own web sites, some with way more content than just a price list at that

I have no doubt that GR works hard to put out a good issue, but with more modern communications methods they and many others may be going the way of the dinosauers.

If money were tight (and it is not for me) and I had to choose between MLS or GR then GR would have to go!!

Hate to put a stick in all the friendly comments, but I hope it will be taken in the spirit it is given. I do want out hobby to succeed!!!!!!!!

 

[Semper Vaporo]

It is tough for a well established magazine to offer articles for newcomers because they have already published all the information for newcomers. If they repeat anything the longtime subscribers complain that they don't want to pay for repeated information. Yet, the newcomer is then stuck buying back issues to get the beginner information but doesn't know for sure if it will contain information that is applicable for today, and the advertisements are all old and of little value because the products advertised are either no longer being produced or the prices are way off due to inflation, thus reducing the value for the price paid for the issue.

The magazine is caught between a rock and a hard place... publish repeated beginner articles and alienate the established subscriber base or publish only NEW information that is sparse at best and have to fill the magazine with whatever the author base feels like submitting for publication. And that leaves just photo essays of larger and larger layouts... they have already published photo essays of small layouts because they were part of the earlier issues when people were just starting to build layouts and they were all small.

If GR were to pass by the wayside, a new magazine would start up to take its place (Hope Hope! /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/crying.gif ) and because it was NEW, it could get away with publishing the beginner stuff because there would be no subscriber base to alienate saying they don't want repeat issues. /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/satisfied.gif

 

[toddalin]

Posted By Semper Vaporo on 09/01/2008 6:50 PM
It is tough for a well established magazine to offer articles for newcomers because they have already published all the information for newcomers. If they repeat anything the longtime subscribers complain that they don't want to pay for repeated information. Yet, the newcomer is then stuck buying back issues to get the beginner information but doesn't know for sure if it will contain information that is applicable for today, and the advertisements are all old and of little value because the products advertised are either no longer being produced or the prices are way off due to inflation, thus reducing the value for the price paid for the issue.
The magazine is caught between a rock and a hard place... publish repeated beginner articles and alienate the established subscriber base or publish only NEW information that is sparse at best and have to fill the magazine with whatever the author base feels like submitting for publication. And that leaves just photo essays of larger and larger layouts... they have already published photo essays of small layouts because they were part of the earlier issues when people were just starting to build layouts and they were all small.
If GR were to pass by the wayside, a new magazine would start up to take its place (Hope Hope! /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/crying.gif" border=0> ) and because it was NEW, it could get away with publishing the beginner stuff because there would be no subscriber base to alienate saying they don't want repeat issues. /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/satisfied.gif" border=0>


Each issue could have a beginner article. Those of us who have been doing this for a while can certainly tolerate one beginner article each month. Beginners could then be referred to the web site to further their knowledge.

 

[Semper Vaporo]

This was discussed (and cussed) some time ago and the suggestion to include one beginner article was met with vociferous objections. ("I ain't payin' for repeats! I'll drop my subscription if they start doin' that!") Wonder what will happen today.

 

[East Broad Top]

I don't see online replacing print magazines anytime in the near future. First, the number aren't there. GR's own web site doesn't get the traffic this one does, and this one--if all the registered users were actively reading the board--would still only be 20% or so of GR's circulation. I'd guess in terms of active users, that number's probably closer to 5% or so. It will be quite some time before those numbers begin to come close to matching. Second, the content would have to change considerably. People get bored quickly if all they do in front of the computer is read. They want videos and interactivity to keep them coming back. The web is such a flexible medium, so content really needs to be catered to take full advantage of that medium. Lastly--and probably most importantly--the revenue stream hasn't been established yet. Even the big media companies are still wrestling with this one. It's got to be economically viable to succeed. If you're paying for contributed content, producing more interactive content in house,(which is inherently more expensive than just words and pictures) and paying for the bandwidth needed to get it to the reader, you need a strong advertising policy in place. The old pay-for-space model doesn't work. Pop-ups get blocked, and people get highly annoyed when they have to click through an advertisement to get to the content they're after. For some reason, it's a lot harder on the psyche to click a "close" button than simply flip past the printed ads.

You can expect to see GR (and every other print magazine) work over the coming years to significantly increase their web product. At this point, the aim is still largely supplemental, with the model being the magazine driving people to the web site more than vice versa.

As for content, I have my three pages every issue, and that's about as much influence as I get. I would like to think that a column called "Garden Railways Basics" would be recognized as being concepts for beginners, so in that light, I'd like to think there's something new for beginners in every issue.

Later,

K

 

[Guest]

Posted By NTCGRR on 09/01/2008 2:00 PM
I'm lost, I don't see a problem. Mark and many others I see post on here and I feel I know them well. I don't worry about little things.

The bigger things to worry about is my 18 year old got MIP last night and now I have to deal with that. All four boys knows that I WON'T bail them out of jail.



Sorry to hear Marty, let him soak in there. What my mom and dad would have done.
Coming from a ex-Texas Peace Officer remind him at 18 it will be on his record for life.
Toad

 

[Marauderer]

I read each issue of GR cover to cover. But there will come a time, when I get my layout completed and have all the rolling stock and DCC and sound boards that I need and can program everything myself, that I won't read it cover to cover. I have had several hobbies over the years and when I became proficient at each one I stopped reading the magazines because they were always a few months behind what I was doing. I didn't stop my subscriptions but got to the point of just browsing for new stuff that I didn't know about. GR is a great magazine that supports our hobby well and we should be thankful we have this fine magazine.

 

[billsharron]

Kevin,

Hope you don't take any of this personally, just because you write for GR, but the main reason the GR web site is rarly viisited is because it is boring, and seems to be nothing more than a plug to subscribe to the mag. There is very little depth of content.

To be successful like MLS the GR web site would have to cover a wide variety of topics like MKS and other major Large Scale Web sites do. GR may be trying, but just hasn't got there. Maybe they will at some point. If they get really good I will go there. GR like other hobby related print media must tie theiir print media to their web site in a way that appeals to a wider audience.

Most people have a limited time to spend online, and when the do they will go to a site that has the content they want when they want. Loyalty to MLS is very strong, so MLS members with limited tim will more than likely stick with what they are familiar with, rather than looking for info on the GR site!

Your column on Garden Railway basics should be on line so that if I google the topic your content would show up.


I have over spent my alloted time online and must go now.

Keep up the good work!!

 

[Guest]

Bill,
What I am most discused is they will lock or even kill a thread if they see if. Which I am a very strong mind type person but fourms some times for me I don't get my point across right (I feel it is in the thought proscess or how I was raised) but back to GR they have killed me and if you have looked at the rules said nothing about it for them to take action.
Like to see the Magazine do well but with so many cut backs I just think what next?
Toad

 

[toddalin]

Posted By East Broad Top on 09/02/2008 1:03 AM
As for content, I have my three pages every issue, and that's about as much influence as I get. I would like to think that a column called "Garden Railways Basics" would be recognized as being concepts for beginners, so in that light, I'd like to think there's something new for beginners in every issue.
Later,
K


OK, what I want to know is why is the magazine written it "first person" as opposed to "third person." I see magazines written both way, but third person has always been considered as proper and more "professional" and that is how WE write all of our technical documents.

Todd

 

[East Broad Top]

Bill, no offense at all. I, too, would like to see a bit more content on-line. I know there are efforts underway to do that, but it takes people to create the content, which takes time and money (and people). I'd love to see an easier way to navigate to all the on-line resources that are available. Every time I go to the home page, there's a different article fronting it (including some of my columns), but I have yet to find an index or clickable link to just see what's available. Perhaps in time...

Todd, I can't speak for others, but I write mine first-person because I'm writing about my personal experiences. There's also an inherent difference between a technical document and a magazine article. First person is a lot more conversational.

Later,

K

 

[vsmith]

Just my own POV but the reason the GR forum is so "boring", is that there are only a few people actually contributing to it anymore, the reasons for that may vary, but postings there have dropped off significantly compared to years past, alot of familiar names no longer visit the site anymore or are rarely there, so when people ask questions theres a smaller pool of those who can reply so the overall postings and subject matters wane.

I've noticed a similar drop in postings here and at LSC, I attributed it to the sour economy, fewer newbies entering the hobby, so fewer questions, fewer posts, even some long time members have dropped off as outside pressures force them to focus their free time elsewhere. And I think the debacle over the fall of LGB also soured alot of people on both sides of the issue from posting.

So at GR only a small core of active members remain, and like here, most are pretty well established in the hobby and as such have relatively few questions so the subjects tend to fall into other catagories not quite "on-topic" or tend to focus on personalities and there differences, LSC has been doing this alot lately, and it while it can be quite fun to read some of the banter, it can tend to stray from being objective ... alittle. .

 

[wchasr]

Posted By vsmith on 09/02/2008 12:00 PM
Just my own POV but the reason the GR forum is so "boring", is that there are only a few people actually contributing to it anymore, the reasons for that may vary, but postings there have dropped off significantly compared to years past, alot of familiar names no longer visit the site anymore or are rarely there, so when people ask questions theres a smaller pool of those who can reply so the overall postings and subject matters wane.
I've noticed a similar drop in postings here and at LSC, I attributed it to the sour economy, fewer newbies entering the hobby, so fewer questions, fewer posts, even some long time members have dropped off as outside pressures force them to focus their free time elsewhere. And I think the debacle over the fall of LGB also soured alot of people on both sides of the issue from posting.
So at GR only a small core of active members remain, and like here, most are pretty well established in the hobby and as such have relatively few questions so the subjects tend to fall into other catagories not quite "on-topic" or tend to focus on personalities and there differences, LSC has been doing this alot lately, and it while it can be quite fun to read some of the banter, it can tend to stray from being objective ... alittle. " border=0> .






As for me I'll keep subscribing for now. I do see some value in it vs. the one year I paid for the LGB club membership. I think I started my online presence about the time the old site went donw adn right as this was was formed. I poked about on the old Bachman site and found this one again sometime later. As new ones come I keep an aye from tiem to time but the content seems to be repeated (with a twist) by the same folks from oen site to antoher. I find this one the friendliest so I stay here more often than not. I do check the Aristo site still from time to time and a few toehrs but find the same folks that post here there psoting the same stuff with almost the same oflks responding. It gets a little tedious trying to keep up on all the forums so I don't. As for the GR Mag I don't have to "keep up" so much as pick it up and read when I please. I too echo someone elses comments about Uncle Russ's mag. I miss the old format and the fact that it was printed one month off GR. When the fomat changed I stopped buying it. Less and less of what I was interested in. Since I do not yet have a layout I cannot truly become the rivet counter I'm going to be someday. So for now I'm happily a go roundy bout in circles type of guy when I can get some time to run trains. In the meantime I spend time here and read GR. I'm blissfully ignorant and relatively happy.

Chas