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Paul,

Thank you for letting me know of these shelves. It has been my experience that polymer shelves, drawers, etc then to 'cold flow' over time, and/or become brittle and crack. These of which you speak may be improved.

The thing is, and the reason I settled on steel shelves, is that I have a number of them. You're entirely right about some cheap ones being uselessly fragile. Mine are the heavy-gauge ones meant for industrial or at least, light manufacturing applications.

I will, be assured, go to Wallymart and give them a look.

Les
 

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Mik, you have touched on one of my favorite topics - how to construct raised level large scale layouts. While your question was directed towards indoor applications, the variety of replies re. outdoor pikes is always great to see and I'll bet are helpful to a lot of folks.


I have been planning a raised level indoor pike for a few years now and am getting closer to construction. The complicating factor for me is that my wife and I use our 28'x28'  basement extensively.  We have a library & entertainment center in one side (the stairs to the main floor act as a divider) that houses a 52" HDTV home theater with all the requisite electronics and speakers, and several sections of 6 ft high bookshelves. We have our home office on the other side with desks and file cabinets, the laundry area in the back behind the entertainment area, and the HVAC and HWH along with our storage area is behind the office area.  In short - there really isn't any separate place for trains.


So I devised a plan to install a shelf around the entire perimeter of the basement at a height of 54" high from the floor (which is reasonably level).  The shelf will vary from 18" deep at the narrowest to 36" deep at the widest point (where my main town will be) with most of it being in the 24" to 28" range.  The railroad will be double tracked for the entire perimeter and the rear track will be raised higher than the front track, except where the crossover between the two is located. 


My plan is to use wall-mounted heavy duty shelf brackets such as the 22" model from Knape and Vogt, (or a similar model made by  Stanley) which they claim will hold 1,000 lbs. per pair when mounted per their instructions (which I have not yet seen). My plan is to lag the brackets into the 2x4 studs (24" O.C.) that I will use to frame the inside of the exterior basement walls (which are poured concrete) in which I'll run the electric, cable and telephone lines, and attach pre-finished wood or composite panelling. I have not settled on exactly what I will use for shelving; 3/4"plywood was my initial choice because I did not want it too thick that it raised the surface of the RR too much higher and affect my easy access (for construction and maintenance) and viewing. If I used an open frame type of construction (using 1x4s), it would make grade construction easier but could become too high.  I'll use a lot of foam for scenery construction and even with all of the trains and buildings I plan to use (already have them), I don't see where I'll even get close to the weight rating of the shelf brackets.


The chosen height and depth of shelving allows me to use the space underneath for all of the activities mentioned above. When seated at my desk, a 54" high shelf will not interfere, and even provides a place to mount a task light over the desk. The file cabinets all fit under the 54" height; the large widescreen TV fits under the shelf and still permits viewing at eye level when seated in our recliners or on the sofa.  The 6 ft library shelves will have to be replaced by units that will fit under the 54" height but that is no problem - they are old and were cheap anyway.  The problem areas are the electrical service panel (load center), the utility sink in the back (we stand at that sink so 54" will not work there), the rear exterior door (to an areaway) which will require a lift out bridge section, and the furnace / hot water heater.  At 54" high, access to the load center (located in one corner) will be restricted unless I curve the shelf away from it, which I need to do anyway to handle the 6.5 and 8 ft diameter curves.  In front of the furnace & HWH I figure I can build some kind of roll-away sections that can be removed should something more than changing a filter be required at the furnace.


Al 
 

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Here is my plan:
 



Here a 3D view:


 
The entertainment area  / library on the left; office on the front right, furnace & HWH back behind the office (I'll build a "wall" using folding doors around that).


 


This shows the laundry area in the left rear (with the utility sink in the corner - that's an unresolved problem because it cannot easily be moved), the outside door. 
This is all actually to scale but I still think there will need to be adjustments once I actually start to build it.


Al 
 

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Al,

The plan looks quite good. Just one suggestion for your consideration...

It looks as though you are designing the RR mostly as a "run and let 'em go" type. If that is the case you might want to consider double tracking that rear bridge. It'll be a real bottleneck should you ever want to have two trains at once running around the layout unattended.
 

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Richard, My apologies for not making the drawing better. That bridge is actually a double decker. Look at the 3D renderings.  There are two completely separate loops of track in this plan and the outer loop is elevated almost 10" to 12" higher than the inner loop.  The bridge at the front (the back is where the door to the outside is located) of my basement is there to span a gap between shelves on either side.  The area at the bottom of the stairway needs to be 3 feet wide at the minimum so I did not have room to do more than a single width of track there.  Yes I know - the outer loop of track appears to be floating in the air on the 3D pictures because I have not figured out how to add topography under the track at that height off the floor. (RR-Track is quite vague on how to do that...).


Al 
 

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Posted By Al McEvoy on 02/02/2009 8:25 PM
Richard, My apologies for not making the drawing better. That bridge is actually a double decker. Look at the 3D renderings. There are two completely separate loops of track in this plan and the outer loop is elevated almost 10" to 12" higher than the inner loop. The bridge at the front (the back is where the door to the outside is located) of my basement is there to span a gap between shelves on either side. The area at the bottom of the stairway needs to be 3 feet wide at the minimum so I did not have room to do more than a single width of track there. Yes I know - the outer loop of track appears to be floating in the air on the 3D pictures because I have not figured out how to add topography under the track at that height off the floor. (RR-Track is quite vague on how to do that...).


Al



Ahhh! Now I see the light! Very nice!
 

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Posted By Paul Norton on 01/30/2009 10:04 AM

"If you consider an overhead layout, be aware that some visitors may be taller than you. A section of Ric Golding’s Kaskaskia Valley Railway is indoors, and one track traverses an aisle about 6 feet above the floor. The roadbed is made from two pieces of 3/4 inch plywood laminated together.

While attending the Annual Fall Railway Operations, I managed to walk into the edge of that 1 1/2 inch thick roadbed and gave my head a terrible whack. After reaching up to rub it, my hand came down covered in blood. A second or two later the blood began to running down my face.

Unfortunately there were a kitchen full of ladies between me and the washroom and I really didn’t want to walk through them looking like something out of a chainsaw movie. I did find an alternate route to the washroom however, and was able to stop the bleeding and clean up without scaring anyone. "
Oh the DRAMA. First off the roadbed is only two 1/2 inch pieces of plywood laminated together. Alignment of trackage was required after the Canadians left. Secondly, he was given fair warning that I was 5 foot 9 and it was built for my height. He was warned it was a hard hat area. We would have had him wear one, but the floor joist are only 7 feet above the basement floor and we were afraid he'd disturb the settling of the house. I just don't know what to say, if you give him support he will probably use it against me in court. Truely an International incident. You know in the old days they used leeches for blood letting, said it was good for the health. I offered this free and he wanted to bleed on the rugs and scare the dispatcher and yardmaster.

Rumor is, he may be back for a second blood letting this Fall. ;-) Pictures to follow if it happens again.
 

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If'n it a been me that was injured I would'a headed directly into the kitchen, moaned and collapsed on the floor right smack dab in front of the lot of 'em! I can only fantasize about a bevy of beautiful female types converging on me in care about my welfare!

BTW: How many of you male types are gonna claim I am wrong about my description of the ladies???? Any of you that foolish?
 

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My layout is on several levels. One level is at 5' 6". I bought a kit that allows you to construct a sign with a message of your choice. It flashes, turns various letters on-and-off, and performs other stunts to attract attention.

As far as I know, I'm the only person to bump his head on the layout in spite of the sign. Many, many times...

 

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My indoor railroad is built on 3 levels, the lowest one is 50 inches off the floor, below eye level for a 6'4" guy. This is high enough to be able to get underneath it easily although there are no actual duck unders except to get to access hatches. The next level is 59" from the floor and the top level is 72" off the floor. This requires a two step step ladder so that I can get above it to look down a little.

It is all build with L-girder framework and Homosote panels and roadbed. The ballast is glued but I only glued most of it 12 years after I laid the track so I could be pretty sure that I wasn't going to need to move any of it. The glue isn't really strong so that it can be broken up easily if needed.

Pics at http://www.girr.org/girr/mtn/mtn.html
 

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Posted By Semper Vaporo on 02/09/2009 5:21 PM
BTW: How many of you male types are gonna claim I am wrong about my description of the ladies???? Any of you that foolish?










Me.
What I see happening if you did that is, those lovely ladies, being married women ... I can see one filling the mop pail with cold water while two more got you up far enough to stick your head in it.... While a fourth brought a roll of toilet paper from the head... Yeah, Semp, ol' buddy, they've had you on your feet in 30 seconds. Just my take.


Les

Chuckle.
 

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Posted By Semper Vaporo on 02/09/2009 5:21 PM


If'n it a been me that was injured I would'a headed directly into the kitchen, moaned and collapsed on the floor right smack dab in front of the lot of 'em! I can only fantasize about a bevy of beautiful female types converging on me in care about my welfare!

BTW: How many of you male types are gonna claim I am wrong about my description of the ladies???? Any of you that foolish?








LOL
 
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