G Scale Model Train Forum banner

1 - 20 of 57 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
749 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Finally!: Found enough local Gscalers, 7.5 gauge club is PUSHING me for a club track plan!! help me out on my first rendition!!

Here is my next project, building a club elevated live steam track like the last 3 tracks I have built. This is my biggest project yet!



Here is what I have come up with for the area I have been giving, the public rides the 7.5 gauge trains and would be coming over to our track for viewing (club recruitment also lol)

No the roads are not used, they are a back way out and in the park in case of emergencies, the roads are 1 car length wide.


How does this look for a plan:


Cant wait to get a good 45mm club underway finally! (will be a division of http://www.livesteamers.org )



Let me know if you see any blaring problems with my design. This is all raised up about 4-5 feet (tell me the best height for not killing the old folks backs)


My last track construction methods and will be applied to this (larger stronger structure this time)

http://www.mylargescale.com/Communi...fault.aspx
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
5,910 Posts
RE: Finally!: Found enough local Gscalers, 7.5 gauge club is PUSHING me for a club track plan!! help me out on my first rendition!!

Andrew,

I wish you all success, as I'll be a mere 2 hours away on the Gulf Coast in a few years - with an engine or two.

Comments:

I think you drew what I call a scissors crossing (twice) - 4 switches and a diamond. Simple crossovers are less work and easier to maintain. The prototype would probably have a facing crossover at one end of the station and a trailing crossover at the other (asssuming it is double tracked - I note you have 3 main lines!)

4-5 ft tall is a bit high - it won't encourage young Thomas fans on Open Days. Maybe 3-4 ft would be better.

I believe this is a live steam track? About 23' by 90'? That's pretty big. I'd move the car and engine facilities to one end and shrink the main loops at about 60'. Put the car tracks at 45 degrees and run then into an outer passing loop.

The engine facility needs to be on the outside, where the owners can service their engines without leaning over running tracks.
I suggest you move the passing track on the inside to the outside (or duplicate it) and put engine sidings at the two corners. One could be a turntable and the other a metal grid with a couple of tracks on for those folk either needing to see their alcohol wicks from underneath, or to drop hot coal from their firebox.

The same applies to the car tracks - putting them outside makes it easier for the operators. The locomotive moving out onto the track would need access to his/her train before accessing the main line. [Your design does that already, but from the inside where access is difficult.]

The rationale is that a club track has equipment brought to the track for every run, so outside makes it a lot easier to load/unload. [The roads don't hurt either - can back your vehicle close.]

On the same subject, clubs are social, and an area where folk can hang out while waiting for the water to boil is fun. Note the fire-resistant rail and the holes underneath on this pic of (1/3rd of) Dr Rivet's steaming bay. (He provides chairs in the steaming bays for us old guys with bad backs and for Jason.)




Other than that, I'd just suggest you follow the KISS rule, and build one loop at a time. Don't forget folk like Kent and Brit who use wheelchairs.

I'll tell Dr Rivet to take a look - he's been doing this a lot longer than I have. And tomorrow is ECLSTS, and I'll be running on Mike's track. I'll take a couple of photos of the engine facilities for you, not just the fancy engines.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
225 Posts
RE: Finally!: Found enough local Gscalers, 7.5 gauge club is PUSHING me for a club track plan!! help me out on my first rendition!!

Pete,

I'll be at York tomorrow. I'll keep a lookout for EBT equipment and introduce myself.
Mike
Mike McCormack
Hudson, Massachusetts, TDY in Frederick, Maryland
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
749 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
RE: Finally!: Found enough local Gscalers, 7.5 gauge club is PUSHING me for a club track plan!! help me out on my first rendition!!

Well, I design this to be the grand plan, and it would be built 1 mainline at a time, I think I was getting a big rambunctious when I put in the crossovers lol.

The point of this track is that the people running the engines will be on the inside while the public would be viewing on the outside. The inside is all open and the tracks that come off the turntable will be for getting your engine ready, have the ipen centers for dropping coal, lighting alcohol fires etc etc. the car yard will be on a table will be on a long table that you can walk around on 3 sides.

I had to leave the roads open just in case a car needs to get buy but I wanted to keep the 20' minimum diameter on the outside track so that any engine 45mm could run.

Right now i will be setup for electric and live steam (have blocks for electric) because I only know 3 people down near me with live steam, the rest have electric and ALOT of it, plan is I run my live steam by them and convert them over :p (it will have to start electric).

There is a small track over in the waiting area for boarding the 7.5 gauge trains that the kids can watch the thomas engines, its built for their height, this bigger track was more for us diehards, StevenJ posted last weekends pictures of videos on the smaller track (just on the other side of the south road in my cad drawing)
http://www.mylargescale.com/Community/Forums/tabid/56/aff/11/aft/114927/afv/topic/Default.asphttp://www.mylargescale.com/Communi...fault.aspx

The viewing box will be a raised area so the kids can climb and see but far enough away from there fingers getting run over or touching hot engines.

As for wheelchair access around the inside of the track, I am in a dilemma for that one, club politics keep me from keeping the loop more simple. they keep asking me for something nice. I am also out of room, that square in the picture is all the room I have. I would have to remove the yard and the engine/steamup turntable for this to happen. I have meet kent in person at 2009 Diamondhead and shoot pm's all the time to britstrains about her coal fired engine so I definitely don't want to leave them out! (even though I live FAR away hehe)

I know, a lot to think about. I do want to make it accessible to EVERYONE!!! Hmm move the car and engine facilities to the outside... , will post the new design soon hehehehe, Once I consult with you guys I will submit the ideas to the club.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
322 Posts
RE: Finally!: Found enough local Gscalers, 7.5 gauge club is PUSHING me for a club track plan!! help me out on my first rendition!!

Andrew, just a few suggestions.

1. Keep the layout low enough for a handicapped modeler to operate! We've had people show up at DH and they are forced to work on the lowest layout. Also, look at the Pennsylvania Live Steamers Gauge 1 layout. It has easy handicapper access, and the track is low enough where the modeler, even in a wheel chair can easily do everything needed to operate a live steam locomotive.
2. Keep all of your services tracks on the outside. That way, the operators, who normally work from the inside don't have to deal with an obstacle course while following their equipment.
3. Consider the PLS layout for size. It's about 230 feet for one loop, it has a large tressel a beautiful 'S' curve and a tunnel. Watch the video below to see how nice a loco with a rake of nice coaches looks while going through the 'S' curve.
4. Consider picnic tables or work benches for the inside as operators will have to work on their equipment.
5. Consider a couple long "storage" tracks for those trains that will be making more than one run in a session [i.e. Tom Myers' Flying Scotsman in the video]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tutH_rkuS4M

Good luck and happy steaming.
 

·
TDY to Earth
Joined
·
1,483 Posts
RE: Finally!: Found enough local Gscalers, 7.5 gauge club is PUSHING me for a club track plan!! help me out on my first rendition!!

Andrew

Since Pete T thinks I need to comment:


Since club "politics" are going to constrain your design to contain some long term disasters, I yhink you need to mitigate them to the maximum extent possible. I recognize that some of these comments have been made previously, so this is just reinforcement.

1] 30 to 36 inches is the optimum height for operation. Lower height requires people without R/C to continually bend over while attempting to control or service a locomotive on the track. Higher precludes not only wheel chair operators, but discourages younger operators who may be "vertically challenged" due to their age. BTW, if this facility is on PUBLIC land [like a park], NOT planning for handicapped access / use might subject the club to a ADA compliance inspired lawsuit.

2] Having the yard and servicing tracks [at any height below FIVE FEET] will eventually lead to a personal injury when someone trying to control a "runaway" locomotive runs into the obstructing track structure while paying attention to the engine. I witgnessed this several times at the old track at the Indiana Transportation Museum in Noblesville.

3] As designed it is clear the prevailing direction of travel is CLOCKWISE. Any train entering the layout will have to make a full circuit on the inside track befor corssing to either of the other tracks., Any train leaving to enter the yard/servicing area will have to pull past the single entry switch [at the top of your drawing] and then back into the areaa, again fouling that main for an extended period. You will soon find that that track serves only as a get on/get off track.
4] Double [or scissors] crossovers using a crossing require careful maintenance and cannot be used at anything but a slow pace. I know; there is on the IE&W Ry at the bottom of my yard/steaming bay leads [and it uses #8 turnouts]. I recommend that you spaxce the single crossovers out so that in the clockwise direction a train can move from inside to center and then after about six feet cross from center to outside. In the same way the other two sets should move you from outside to center and then quickly move the train from center to inside. This will insure that a tain moving inside to outside [or vice versa] occupies the center track for as short a time as possible. Otherwise, THERE WILL BE A COLLISION within the first two hours the layout is in operation. Again, this is from experience on my layout. I redesigned the junctions on my double track layout at least twice before we got the collision hazard mitigated.

5] You DO need to put in all four sets of crossovers. You do NOT want trains backing through the crossovers, it will bring ALL other trains to a complete halt during the operation. However, as mwentioned in [4] above, you need to have the distance on the center track beteen the movable points of the two switches at least equal to or longer than you longest piece of rolling stock. This is because the two "back to back" switches represent an "S" curve and derailments WILL occur at all but the lowest speeds. My personal recommendation is nothing less than 48 inches.

BTW, the beautiful "S" curve at PLS referred to in the post above has NO tangent track in it and is the single largest blunder ever made in that track design. Apparently the 7 1/4 inch guys did not think that the same rules they must live by applied to smaller gauges. SO... no British or European rolling stock longer than about 25 inches with working buffers will reliably negotiate that curve. IF the cars have Kadee couplers that keep the buffers apart all the time, then longer cars seem to work ok. BUT, most people with Briitish coaches don't use Kadees, they use proper screw couplings.


Good luck with the project.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
749 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
RE: Finally!: Found enough local Gscalers, 7.5 gauge club is PUSHING me for a club track plan!! help me out on my first rendition!!

Thanks alot for all your comments, information that mostly can only be learned through experience, thats why I posted my first track on here for all of you.

Dr Rivet, I want to visit your track someday! lol. I am going to redesign this track right away and put in all of your considerations and others into it. It is in a public park, and we do serve the public on every 3rd weekend of the month (7.5 gauge train rides), even though we do have a good inssurance policy, I would rather not go down that route and do it right the first time!

1. Height of 34" (good for kids, handicap, and good not to kill the back, nice to watch from a chair
2. leave the inside open for servicing, walking
3. have single switchs about 6 feet apart for moving on and off the mainline tracks as quickly as possible
4. have the steamup bay/ car storage on the outside, might combine this into one area (club isnt that large yet). Center for cars, spurs on outside for engine bays

Will post new design soon (tonight or tommorrow)

Thank you all, I really appreciate it!
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,437 Posts
RE: Finally!: Found enough local Gscalers, 7.5 gauge club is PUSHING me for a club track plan!! help me out on my first rendition!!

afinegan:[/b]
help me out on my first rendition!![/b]


Well, rendition really isn't that difficult with a few friends in the right places. Talk to the CIA or NSA I'm sure they can arrange very covert transportation to a nice pleasant out of the way secret prision in some Eastern European country or to a friendly Middle Eastern country either one of which has excellent enhanced interrogation techniques. Don't worry whoever you send will never be heard from again so you don't have anything to worry about. I hope that is the help you were looking for?[/i]



Oh, this was about a new layout?

oops, never mind.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,145 Posts
RE: Finally!: Found enough local Gscalers, 7.5 gauge club is PUSHING me for a club track plan!! help me out on my first rendition!!

Very good, Chris,


As you have demonstrated, the English language is continuously evolving, with words taking on new meaning every day.


p.s. Missed you @ DH this year. Don't let it happen again.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
195 Posts
RE: Finally!: Found enough local Gscalers, 7.5 gauge club is PUSHING me for a club track plan!! help me out on my first rendition!!

Curious Andrew, is this all being done with club money or a mix of both ours and the clubs? I'm sure I can contribue a fair amount. it isn't a bad idea at all to make a new layout design to make it friendly for the disabled. Though the current g scale layout isn't really disabled friendly either come to think of it. Though if you are going to do a mainline, mine as well do it right. How about design an s bend with sidings on the outside and we can use those sidings to steam up and then just drive the loco onto the main layout? Just thinking, that's all. Something more like this...






Again, just a small varation of your plan. If you don't like it, that's fine.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
749 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
RE: Finally!: Found enough local Gscalers, 7.5 gauge club is PUSHING me for a club track plan!! help me out on my first rendition!!

I like your idea steven but the sidings I guess are a bit close to the crossovers, will create S-curves if you traverse all the switchs out of the siding.

Here is my new plan, gives a lot of storage space I think we do need, (plus lets us steam up together near the fridge of neverending sodas (power is also available here)).

As for the funding, The club is providing 100% from what I understand (I can afford to put any into it anyway lol) and your designs and input are just as important and meaningful as mine, lets figure out the best layout together and submit it to kim so he can go on with approval (I will pull frank into the plan also!). I know that norm said to make it nice, well nice BIG sweeping graceful curves is the best imo!

I was keeping the 2 bridges and the big curve on the south side open for the public viewing area, maybe put some benches and a fence here, this would have the nicest views with the 2 metal bridges (trestles or whatever we decide) and the nice curve. So the public is on the south side when they come by and the recruiters, engineers are on the inside.

The steam-up bays and the car yard is a nice place to chat and hang out, maybe even put a roof over this or extend the roof from the station house.


New updated plan, the crossovers have 6' of space before the next one, on the siding I let the track go straight for a bit to accomodate a full train so we can move on and off the mains as quickly and safely as possible. The inside of the track is now wheelchair accessible (but you have to climb under the track first lol).



Let me know what you think steven and everyone else!


Link to the xtrkcad file so you can edit it steve.
http://www.diablosport.com/images/m...iteria.xtc

Xtrkcad can be downloaded here, xtrkcad is a pain sometimes but once you get the hang of it, its fun!
http://sourceforge.net/projects/xtrkcad-fork/


The 5 way switch I will be using, should be fine for yard traffic:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
103 Posts
RE: Finally!: Found enough local Gscalers, 7.5 gauge club is PUSHING me for a club track plan!! help me out on my first rendition!!

My three comments based on experiences at our local club's track:

1. Provide easy access to the insides of the loops, even if there are no service tracks there. IF a train derails and you need to get inside, then crawling underneath may work. Or, it may not.

2. Provide/include rolling stock storage tracks. Not permanent storage, but if every person shows up with a few cars and wants to have them ready to go then they need to store someplace! There is one gentleman at our club who has I think about 20 PFE Reefers that he pulls behind a cab-forward. Add my dozen British narrow-gauge cars, and another gentleman's ten 1:20.3 narrow gauge boxcars and room runs out real fast! And it isn't as simple as pulling them off and setting them somewhere.

3. Make sure at least one portion of your track has overhead protection. Ours has a simple welded-pipe tent sent up with a removable cover that is installed in nice weather. Lights are strung up on it at night. If your run days turn bad it is nice, and if you are in a hot sunny area it is essential.

I attached a picture of our club's track. It is well designed has held up well, though we will be adding some more crossover tracks between loops AS WELL AS installing a better means of getting into the inside of the loop!


 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,071 Posts
RE: Finally!: Found enough local Gscalers, 7.5 gauge club is PUSHING me for a club track plan!! help me out on my first rendition!!

Any way you slice it, I like it. I wish I could come help you lay track.

Best wishes on this project.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
749 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
RE: Finally!: Found enough local Gscalers, 7.5 gauge club is PUSHING me for a club track plan!! help me out on my first rendition!!

Hmm, I could make a walk over bridge over the curve between the 2 metal bridges into the center, but then someone will trip over that, or someone will need a ramp instead of steps :p, maybe I should build a tunnel under the layout, hmm florida, almost sea level... naa that wont work hehehe.

j//k will hit that stump when I get there hehe
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
50 Posts
RE: Finally!: Found enough local Gscalers, 7.5 gauge club is PUSHING me for a club track plan!! help me out on my first rendition!!

I like the new plan. It has lots of storage space which we need badly. Will the electrics be designated to a certain track to keep the oil residue off the pickups. Wouldn't want to see Franks challenger with steam oil
all over the pickups lol.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
749 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
RE: Finally!: Found enough local Gscalers, 7.5 gauge club is PUSHING me for a club track plan!! help me out on my first rendition!!

Ya, we will have to figure that one out lol, maybe since there are so few of us live steamers for this track and its mostly electric (for the time being) we might have to just clean it after using the track, frank already has this clean thing on a stick that we have been using on the smaller track, it seems to work fine.

more stuff to think about... lol

I was definnately going to setup blocks so electrics can run on any track, ifr its clean or not... hehehe (can always designate a track for electrics out of the 3 but if its not the inside , the out 2 will have a small area that the live steamers will crossover. I don't think its that big of an issue since where mostly like going stainless.)
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
322 Posts
RE: Finally!: Found enough local Gscalers, 7.5 gauge club is PUSHING me for a club track plan!! help me out on my first rendition!!

Andrew, regarding handicapped access, look at the PLS grass covered tunnel. It is good for a couple reasons. Carts with equipment use it, and of course, so can wheel chairs. It isn't fun to load and unload carts and then crawl under any layout. As we all get older, getting down on our hands and knees gets tougher and tougher. What's the average age of your club? A rope type gate would be required at the entrance, but that's easy to navigate. Finally, watching trains enter and exit tunnels is always exciting.

Have you thought about an area reserved for unloading and loading cars/vans, etc.? Maybe no parking around the layout, only short term parking for loading and unloading.

Regards,

Will
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
5,910 Posts
RE: Finally!: Found enough local Gscalers, 7.5 gauge club is PUSHING me for a club track plan!! help me out on my first rendition!!

Andrew,

I just got back from ECLSTS and unloaded my trains and photos. Here, as promised, is one side of Mike Moore's track - the other side is similar:



You've certainly had a few comments in the last couple of days. I added the notes on the photo to address some of the issues mentioned.
Mike's track is about 64' by 25'.

I'd only add the odd comment to your latest plan. (BTW - it might be easier to grasp if you had the benchwork / open areas delineated?)

One thing that happens is that you have busy days when everyone turns up. The comment about 20+ reefers is real - Alan had 18 plus 6 boxcars plus a caboose behind his AC-12 yesterday afternoon. Train storage doesn't have to be expensive track - it can be an ordinary (solid core) door with rows of wooden 'rails' on it. You keep a couple under the layout and bring them out on Open Days.

With three main lines, I'd add back your inner passing track on the inside, and a couple of sidings - parking for trains that don't need to go back to the main storage yard. (Especially if Alan is flying on the outer with his Daylight and 18 coaches!) Agian, on Open Days the trains can stay parked while the operator waits his turn.

As you'll be my closest track in a year or so, I'm looking forward to helping you make it a reality. Perhaps I'd better join the Club.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
5,910 Posts
RE: Finally!: Found enough local Gscalers, 7.5 gauge club is PUSHING me for a club track plan!! help me out on my first rendition!!

The 5 way switch I will be using, should be fine for yard traffic:

Andrew,
While the Train Li 'switch' is a fine piece of equipment, it's really not needed. You can push a piece of track around exactly the same way, if you firmly clamp/screw one end and put in something to hold the other end in alignment. The 'crossover' in my photo is actually one switch and a piece of track that is 'slewed' around to meet it, (thus providing a smoother inner loop without a switch to derail the high-speed runners.) See circled area below:
 
1 - 20 of 57 Posts
Top