[TonyWalsham]

Chris, If you wired up the charge jack the way I recommend you would not have to take the loco out of service. You simply plug in an auxiliary battery pack mounted in the first trail car and keep on running.
Then you can charge the batteries at your leisure and will not have lost a loco from service.

 

[up9018]

I did that Tony, and can do that for extended run times. I was talking about when the battery needed recharged I had to take it out of service.

 

[TonyWalsham]

You only need to take the loco out of service when you have stopped operating.

 

[sailbode]

OK Chris, sounds like you have a system that works well for you and 4 hours of run time is what you enjoy. If I were you I'd be thinking of how to get charging power track-side so as not to have to remove the train from the track. Your figures are skewed a bit as the run times quoted from folks using the HF packs are more like 1.5. Current price per pack is $9. and if you followed the discussion on battery lifespan, the NiMa HF packs may be running long after your lithium packs have quit (3-5 years or 500 cycles). You do make a good point about CG and I will be giving that some consideration when mounting the reciever socket. I have been using Li-Po batteries in my rc planes for several years and they typicaly fail after 2 years....of course I abuse the **** out of them If the HF packs used NiCds they would be better yet. And lastly, onboard "installed" batteries are fine until you find them discharged and you're wanting to show somebody your train..... been there.
Micheal, thanks! very informative and yup we're having fun

 

[TonyWalsham]

Michael.
If you did it the way I suggest it wouldn't matter if the on board batteries were discharged when you wanted to show someone your trains.
You just plug the auxiliary batteries into the charge jack and motor right along.

 

[sailbode]

Tony, I suspect the "installed" battery is not easily removed so in order to charge "it" (the installed battery), the train must be taken out of service. Chris has already said he doesn't like battery cars.

 

[up9018]

Don,

For regular operations on my RR i will be using strictly the on-board batteries. However, I have wired my loco (with Tony's help) to allow me to couple a battery car to the rear of the loco, and plug it into the battery charge port on the loco, and then just keep running using the battery in the trailing car. When it is all said and done (way in the future) I will have a charging station in my shop which I can run any locos to and recharge the battery without removing them from the track.

One thing about how long the CR battery will last vs the HF battery, is the Quality of the battery. For $9, quality is going to be limited, and that will greatly effect how long your battery will last. But, even if that battery lasts you only a year, $9 is a very economical solution.

Something you may investigate, I believe (don't quote me on this) that the drill packs are simply filled with individual cells. You may investigate removing them from the plastic casing and simply adding your own connector to the pack. The reason I suggest that is you remove some of the bulk, and you can standardize on a connector, and plug whatever battery you want into your battery car.

Chris

 

[TonyWalsham]

Don.
I am well aware of what Chris is saying.
I am not advocating battery cars as the primary source of the power. Merely using them as a battery back up facility for the on board batteries.
My point is that there is no need to take any loco out of service to charge it during a running session, because the on board battery is depleted.
An operator can wait until the session is over to recharge it when he is not using it anyway.

The circuit automatically disconnects the on board batteries when the auxiliary batteries in the trail car are plugged into the loco charge jack.
This arrangement is also ideal for locos that don't have much space for high capacity batteries.
Use small capacity batteries for yard switching work and plug in big capacity batteries for the mainline running.

You might want to read up on it here. Wiring auxiliary batteries all parts are available at Radio Shack or similar outlets.

 

[East Broad Top]

Kevin, you are doing exactly what you accused me of last time, wanting everything built like a tank, by the way!
I think you're misreading me. Not "everything," just that which needs to be. My cordless drill packs weigh in at 2 pounds a piece. One of these packs in a battery car will not be much of an issue. You should expect to run that car with stock trucks for years and be okay. Two of them in a car would be 4 pounds, which is in the neighborhood of what we were pulling with two gel cell or motorcycle headlight batteries onboard. When we were pulling that much weight, we had issues with the trucks on the battery cars--not just pulling the weight on the grades, but the physical wear and tear on the trucks from supporting that much weight in general. When we switched to the much lighter NiCad packs, it was no surprise that the issues we were having with trucks went away. It sounds odd to think that just two pounds could make that much of a difference, but that's what we experienced. If I were to "double-up" and run two drill battery packs in parallel for longer run times, I'd make sure the trucks in the car were up to the task, either die-cast or at least having ball-bearing wheels or journals. But that's the only circumstance of those we're discussing for which I'd recommend that. A single pack? There's no need to worry.

Later,

K

 

[sailbode]

Of course I could put the second pack in a second car to spread the weight over 4 trucks instead of 2...if I really wanted 3+ hours of run time.

Tony, I'm well aware of your aux battery jacks and how they work as I have installed several (purchased from Don Sweet). I understand your point. Mine is that if Chris wants to charge the installed battery, which is his preferred source of power, he must remove the loco from the track (until he gets his trackside charger. These are minor inconveniences for many of us who employ these types of battery arrangments and we learn to cope. I have had some experience with a large multi train layout with a primary owner operator who could not be bothered keeping track of all the different battery charge levels...in some cases both the primary and aux batteries were allowed to go flat and of course this would happen at the most remote location in the layout at the worst time (Murphy). Now without easy swap out batteries, we would have to climb over the layout and carry the loco back to the charging station (sometimes embarrassing). We have converted most of my friends trains to Milwaukee 18V 3 amp Li-Ion packs with home made connectors...takes 2 seconds to slap in a fresh pack. Also, the Milwaukee packs have LED charge level indicators. HE LOVES IT! I'd like something similar for myself but the Milwaukee packs aint cheap, which is why I am where I am.
Chris, your suggestion regarding making my own "plug in" connector is something I have given some thought. As Stan has said, Drill pack connectors come and go, and it might not be smart to get "locked in " to one type of connector.
Still learning, still experimenting, and enjoying the process. I suspect there will not be a "one size fits all" system that will make everyone happy. I do enjoy the exchange of ideas and experiences....(as long as it doesn't get heated) and thank all for their input.
Don

 

[Bob in Kalamazoo]

Just a little more information on this topic. I purchased a HF $9 drill pack and their $5 charger back in August. I took the plastic case off from the pack and just mounted the batteries in a Bachmann tender. I wired in a large watt resistor and used spade terminals to hook the battery up to my tender wiring. I used the connection from the loco to the tender from my Big Hauler loco to power the loco with just a forward-off-reverse switch. When the battery needs rechaging I unplug the tender wiring and pulg in the cheap charger. I figured for less that $15 it would be a good experiment. So far it has worked fine. I'm sure at some point I'll kill the batteries, but I won't be out much. I'm not suggesting that this is a good idea, just that it works. By the way, as you might expect, the resistor does get hot so I keep it away from any plastic. If at some point I decide to go with a perminent set up I'll either buy or make an electronic speed control.
Bob

 

[sailbode]

Hi Bob,
What kind of run times are you getting?

In case you don't already know, Dels critter control will do a great job of controlling your train and save on the abropt "on/off" shock to the motor and gears. For $30 might be a good investment http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/DelTapparo/Electronics.htm

and for a few extra $$ you will also get the ability to have the train come to a slow stop, wait 30 seconds, and then slowly accelerate and resume it's travel. I think that is very cool for a simple none rc control.

 

[Bob in Kalamazoo]

Posted By sailbode on 06 Jan 2011 12:08 PM
Hi Bob,
What kind of run times are you getting?

In case you don't already know, Dels critter control will do a great job of controlling your train and save on the abropt "on/off" shock to the motor and gears. For $30 might be a good investment http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/DelTapparo/Electronics.htm

and for a few extra $$ you will also get the ability to have the train come to a slow stop, wait 30 seconds, and then slowly accelerate and resume it's travel. I think that is very cool for a simple none rc control.

I probably will do that this coming spring. I just wanted to see if it would work and if the batteries would last. I'm not sure how long of a run time I get. I haven't tried to run it much over and hour. By then I get tired of it and run something else. Since it's just off or on I run it on a loop by it self while I run another train on the rest of the layour with DCC track power. The Big Hauler loco is pulling two passenger cars.
Bob

 

[izzy0855]

FYI . . .for those interested what's inside a cordless drill plastic case. This is a DC9096XRP 18V DeWalt (owned by Black & Decker) NC2500SCR HRD insert battery-pack that we manufacturer for DeWalt.

Rick Isard
Cordless Renovations, LLC

 

[Nicholas Savatgy]

Posted By izzy0855 on 06 Jan 2011 05:56 PM
FYI . . .for those interested what's inside a cordless drill plastic case. This is a DC9096XRP 18V DeWalt (owned by Black & Decker) NC2500SCR HRD insert battery-pack that we manufacturer for DeWalt.

Rick Isard
Cordless Renovations, LLC
No,

I dont think most people are interested in what YOU have to offer Lately.............

Just an observation of course.............

 

[Mike Reilley]

Rick...do you make those DC9096XRP 18V DeWalt packs inside the US? I know the cells come from Asia, but do you guys actually build that assembly at your plant in the US? Second question...what is the mah rating of that pack?

 

[up9018]

Rick,

Is that silicone you use to hold the cells together?

Chris

 

[izzy0855]

Nick, thanks for the kind words...

Mike, yes we manufacture the inserts for the DeWalt brand here in Iowa, and those cells are the new Sanyo NC2500SCR - NiCd 2500mah HRD (High Rate Discharge) cells distributed by Sanyo out of San Diego, CA., manufactured in Japan. These cells are used in Jaws of Live, Impact Guns & Recipicanting Saws...

Chris, this is an older picture when we used High Temp Glue from a glue gun, but now we use a clear liquid base glue (not a gel) from Hernon Manufacturing called Quantum 124. It's just like Super Glue but about 5 times stronger; it hardens in 15 seconds and dry's clear. It's alittle expensive for a 7 oz bottle and you can only purchase it through one their distributors.

Rick Isard
Cordless Renovations, LLC

 

[sailbode]

Thanks Rick, could you explain what the "extra" contacts are for? I mean, besides the pos. and neg.
If you haven't noticed, an interesting thing to me at least, is to have batteries that can be "swapped" as easily as we do with a cordless drill. It seems you have put some of your efforts into producing a complete battery car with onboard charger. I'm sure there are many that like that set up, but have you considered making a series of packs with a common receptical. The recepticals could be used for a charging base as well as a receptical in a train.....(what I'm trying to come up with using the HF stuff)? I know it wont be crazy "Chinese" cheap, but there are many who are willing to pay for superior quality. I guess you have to decide if there would be a market. There are several right here that use "swap out" packs but for lack of something better, go with alligator clips, deans, tamaya, etc
Don

 

[dtetreault]

Don,
I have used the HF 18 volt batteries for a few years. I connect them with spade connectors direct to the battery and use a bridge rectifier so the polarity does not matter. I recharge them on my Firestorm 18v charger. Had to swap the neg & positive leads on the battery to match the Firestorm charger. Only get about 1 hour run time from each battery, but changing the batteries on takes a few seconds. I like this setup.

Dennis