Dust Collection
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Posted By jnic on 06/22/2008 8:57 AM
Can anybody recommend a quality dust collection system that goes for a reasonable price? I have an old Shopsmith Mark V.
john
Quality and reasonable price is kind of an oxymoron. You can plan on spending around $2K for a quality system that will run 4"-6" lines or you can set up a large shop vac for under $100 and run 2 1/2" lines and make your own adapters. It is not any easy thing to accomplish. If you do a lot of sanding you definitely want to protect your lungs and need to get a good DC system./DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/w00t.gif
Can anybody recommend a quality dust collection system that goes for a reasonable price? I have an old Shopsmith Mark V.
john
Quality and reasonable price is kind of an oxymoron. You can plan on spending around $2K for a quality system that will run 4"-6" lines or you can set up a large shop vac for under $100 and run 2 1/2" lines and make your own adapters. It is not any easy thing to accomplish. If you do a lot of sanding you definitely want to protect your lungs and need to get a good DC system./DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/w00t.gif
I have to agree with Barry that "cheap" dust collection that is good, or even adequate, is virtually impossible. Having worked with woodworking machinery all my life, I've probably inhaled many pounds of the stuff!
A web page that you should check out is Bill Pentz's dust collector/cyclone site
http://billpentz.com/woodworking/cyclone/index.cfm
Bill became seriously ill from inhaled dust and became a virtual dust collection zealot. That doesn't mean the information on his site is not accurate, however. I've seen his site referenced on many industrial hygiene reports. Bill's site is immense and you can spend many days going through it all. Of particular note are the design and plan pages for cyclone collectors sized for both a 5hp motor (i.e., suitable for all by the largest home shop and even many small commercial shops) and a smaller one that works in conjunction with a shop vac.
There is an accompanying page that documents how to build the 5hp version from galvanized sheet steel.
If you're looking for something a little less complicated, a guy named Phil Thien has developed a trash can lid separator that is MUCH better than the plastic lid types you can get from Lee Valley and others. It is relatively easy to make and is some 95+% efficient at collecting even the finest dust (a cyclone approaches 100% efficiency once properly tuned) - it is also a lot more affordable. Phil has even started up a discussion board for people to swap ideas, etc. While originally designed as an inline collector to be used with a shop vac, there are several people that have scaled them up to work with 4" standard vacuum hose and a 1-2hp dust collector such as those from Harbor Freight or Grizzly.
See: http://www.cgallery.com/jpthien/cy.htm
While a decent dust collector is important, it is still only half the equation for good dust collection. The best dust collector in the world really can do no good once the dust is airborne. It is paramount that as much dust as possible be captured at the site where it is generated. With a table saw, for instance, this would involve creating two dust shrouds - the first on the saw table top to completely cover the blade and vacuum away dust that would otherwise be thrown back at the saw operator as the cut is made. Google "Brett Guard" to see one example. The second is a shroud that bolts or hinges to the underside of the tabletop and covers the entire blade - this catches the dust that is carried through the table top by the saw teeth/gullets as the blade cuts through the workpiece. There are drawings of examples on Pentz's website for many common woodworking tools.
The final thing you would need to add would be a ceiling mounted air filter. These are basically a large box with inlet and outlet filters and a large blower motor moving several hundred to several thousand cfm through those filters. Both Jet, Delta and Grizzly offer several models.
If you are doing a lot a sanding with, say a handheld random orbital sander, the answer is a downdraft table - basically an air filter as mentioned in the above paragraph contained within a free standing table oriented to pull air though a perforated table top on which you do the sanding. Again, Grizzly and Delta offer several different models.
Finally, you may want to consider filtering your own air - i.e., use a good quality and tight fitting face mask.
Anyway, I've said enough for now.
Good luck with it.
Brian
A web page that you should check out is Bill Pentz's dust collector/cyclone site
http://billpentz.com/woodworking/cyclone/index.cfm
Bill became seriously ill from inhaled dust and became a virtual dust collection zealot. That doesn't mean the information on his site is not accurate, however. I've seen his site referenced on many industrial hygiene reports. Bill's site is immense and you can spend many days going through it all. Of particular note are the design and plan pages for cyclone collectors sized for both a 5hp motor (i.e., suitable for all by the largest home shop and even many small commercial shops) and a smaller one that works in conjunction with a shop vac.
There is an accompanying page that documents how to build the 5hp version from galvanized sheet steel.
If you're looking for something a little less complicated, a guy named Phil Thien has developed a trash can lid separator that is MUCH better than the plastic lid types you can get from Lee Valley and others. It is relatively easy to make and is some 95+% efficient at collecting even the finest dust (a cyclone approaches 100% efficiency once properly tuned) - it is also a lot more affordable. Phil has even started up a discussion board for people to swap ideas, etc. While originally designed as an inline collector to be used with a shop vac, there are several people that have scaled them up to work with 4" standard vacuum hose and a 1-2hp dust collector such as those from Harbor Freight or Grizzly.
See: http://www.cgallery.com/jpthien/cy.htm
While a decent dust collector is important, it is still only half the equation for good dust collection. The best dust collector in the world really can do no good once the dust is airborne. It is paramount that as much dust as possible be captured at the site where it is generated. With a table saw, for instance, this would involve creating two dust shrouds - the first on the saw table top to completely cover the blade and vacuum away dust that would otherwise be thrown back at the saw operator as the cut is made. Google "Brett Guard" to see one example. The second is a shroud that bolts or hinges to the underside of the tabletop and covers the entire blade - this catches the dust that is carried through the table top by the saw teeth/gullets as the blade cuts through the workpiece. There are drawings of examples on Pentz's website for many common woodworking tools.
The final thing you would need to add would be a ceiling mounted air filter. These are basically a large box with inlet and outlet filters and a large blower motor moving several hundred to several thousand cfm through those filters. Both Jet, Delta and Grizzly offer several models.
If you are doing a lot a sanding with, say a handheld random orbital sander, the answer is a downdraft table - basically an air filter as mentioned in the above paragraph contained within a free standing table oriented to pull air though a perforated table top on which you do the sanding. Again, Grizzly and Delta offer several different models.
Finally, you may want to consider filtering your own air - i.e., use a good quality and tight fitting face mask.
Anyway, I've said enough for now.
Good luck with it.
Brian
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383 Posts
Posted By Torby on 06/22/2008 11:47 AM
Oh. I thought this was a thread about my trains: a "dust collection."
Yeah.
That's why it was put in the "Tools" forum...
As to the topic, Delta makes a fairly nice 1 HP collecting system, which would be suitable for a small home shop.
http://www.deltaportercable.com/dustcollection
You can also build a "manifold" to connect other dust making machines to the central unit.
Oh. I thought this was a thread about my trains: a "dust collection."
Yeah.
That's why it was put in the "Tools" forum...
As to the topic, Delta makes a fairly nice 1 HP collecting system, which would be suitable for a small home shop.
http://www.deltaportercable.com/dustcollection
You can also build a "manifold" to connect other dust making machines to the central unit.
I have most of the Shopsmith equipment, including their DC3300 dust collector with the high filter bag. While it does a pretty good job of collecting the wood shavings, etc. through it's 2 1/2 inch hose. It does not do such a good job on the airborne wood dust floating in the air.
I also have a Powermatic 64 table saw which is hooked up to a Powermatic dust collector with a 4 inch hose. Here again it does a great job on wood particles and only a fair job on airborne wood dust.
I have my shop setup with an outlet in ceiling and a wall switch for an overhead filter system to collect the air borne dust particles. I just need to decide which one I want to buy and get it.
The fine airborne sawdust that gets into your lungs and eyes. As Brian mentioned that is what you need to control.
I also have a Powermatic 64 table saw which is hooked up to a Powermatic dust collector with a 4 inch hose. Here again it does a great job on wood particles and only a fair job on airborne wood dust.
I have my shop setup with an outlet in ceiling and a wall switch for an overhead filter system to collect the air borne dust particles. I just need to decide which one I want to buy and get it.
The fine airborne sawdust that gets into your lungs and eyes. As Brian mentioned that is what you need to control.
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How many machines are we collecting dust from?
Back in the 70's I had a shop vac for each tool. Table saw, radial arm saw, band saw,
Some could be doubled up. With slides to close for the unit not used. They all had 2 inch hoses.
I had one floater for the hand sander and such
That might be cheaper.
Back in the 70's I had a shop vac for each tool. Table saw, radial arm saw, band saw,
Some could be doubled up. With slides to close for the unit not used. They all had 2 inch hoses.
I had one floater for the hand sander and such
That might be cheaper.
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63 Posts
Thanks for all the input. I need a dust collector primarily for my Shopsmith. My lungs can no longer take the cedar dust. Shopsmith makes very good shrouds for it's table saw, disc sander, joiner, and band saw. Each, as stated above, has a 2.5" hose connector. I was thinking about this, this, and this. I'm somewhat at a lose about what to do about airborne particles but given the quality of the shrouds, perhaps that concern will be minimized.
I've been using a respirator mask during heavy sawing/sanding operations. It works fine but I don't want to wear it everytime I'm in the 'man cave'.
john
I've been using a respirator mask during heavy sawing/sanding operations. It works fine but I don't want to wear it everytime I'm in the 'man cave'.
john
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145 Posts
John
I have the one produced by Shopsmith and love it.
As well as being a dust collector it has a built in Air Filtration unit
Matt
I have the one produced by Shopsmith and love it.
As well as being a dust collector it has a built in Air Filtration unit
Matt
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5,334 Posts
About Air born particles. Mabye a large fan with a furnas filter on it on the suck side may help.
Or even a old furnas fan and a furnas filter may be a cheap way to go.
Or if you can find a use swamp kooler just set up in the room will remove a lot of paticles
Remember when one was allowed to smoke in bars. Well they use to have a long box with electonic filters in it. Make a long box with a high volume fan on one end and several furnas filters on the other. Hang it if possible over your saw.
In most of my printing shops they have the electronic filters right over the delevery of the press to catch the anti offset power coming from the deliver.
Or even a old furnas fan and a furnas filter may be a cheap way to go.
Or if you can find a use swamp kooler just set up in the room will remove a lot of paticles
Remember when one was allowed to smoke in bars. Well they use to have a long box with electonic filters in it. Make a long box with a high volume fan on one end and several furnas filters on the other. Hang it if possible over your saw.
In most of my printing shops they have the electronic filters right over the delevery of the press to catch the anti offset power coming from the deliver.
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284 Posts
Harbor Freight has a few of reasonable price.
http://www.harborfreight.com/
Then search on "Dust Collector"
Regards,
Mark
http://www.harborfreight.com/
Then search on "Dust Collector"
Regards,
Mark
I had made a collector from a 55 gallon drum and a large shop vac. Made a plywood top for the drumm and attached weather stripping where it sat on the drum. Then cut a hole in the plywood so the motor half of the shop vac would fit on/in to it.
Again used some weather stipping. I think I used 3 or 4 inch hose. I would attach to one machine at a time. This would keep up with my 12 inch planer but probably not work with multiple lines. Cyclone separators are a big thing now and they make small ones. I was always worried about fire hazards. Now I
point the planer out the barn door.
Again used some weather stipping. I think I used 3 or 4 inch hose. I would attach to one machine at a time. This would keep up with my 12 inch planer but probably not work with multiple lines. Cyclone separators are a big thing now and they make small ones. I was always worried about fire hazards. Now I
point the planer out the barn door.
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5,334 Posts
If you can find a local print shop. One that has 28 inch or 40 inch presses. They usually have a coating system on them. The coating comes in a fiber Barrel. About 50 gallons. The top is Plactic and has a snap ring type latch that holds the top on. You can cut holes in the plastic top to attach one or more Shop vac's to it. Plus a inlet hole.
A lot of the shops will throw these away. You can probably get them for Free. Once the barrel is full you could transfer your modified lid to a empty one and put the lid from the empty one on the new one and haul it off to the dump.
Another use for these barrels is to cut both ends of the barrel off to make a large tube. I get Concractor trash bags 42 gallon size at Lows.
These bags will streach and fit around the top edge/rim of the barrel. Then I fill the bag with debris. Once the bag is full I slip it off the rim and tie it shut with a wire tie. Then I lift the barrel and the bag falls out the bottom neatly tied and ready for the trash.
This works great in the shop or even cleaning up the Layout/yard. The barrel is reuseable with this method.
You can also use the snap ring to secure the bag to the barrel
A lot of the shops will throw these away. You can probably get them for Free. Once the barrel is full you could transfer your modified lid to a empty one and put the lid from the empty one on the new one and haul it off to the dump.
Another use for these barrels is to cut both ends of the barrel off to make a large tube. I get Concractor trash bags 42 gallon size at Lows.
These bags will streach and fit around the top edge/rim of the barrel. Then I fill the bag with debris. Once the bag is full I slip it off the rim and tie it shut with a wire tie. Then I lift the barrel and the bag falls out the bottom neatly tied and ready for the trash.
This works great in the shop or even cleaning up the Layout/yard. The barrel is reuseable with this method.
You can also use the snap ring to secure the bag to the barrel
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I worked in cabinet shops for a good many years, and nothing beats a cyclone type dust collector as long as you're not the pore SOB that has to clean out or change the barrels.
I have a small shop now and have resigned myself to a smaller, cheaper unit and have no complaints because I can't afford the more expensive unit, and the one I have works better than a vacuum cleaner or no unit at all.
There are a good many companies out there that offer these affordable units. Delta is a good brand as well as Jet. Pick what hurts your pocket book the least.
I have a small shop now and have resigned myself to a smaller, cheaper unit and have no complaints because I can't afford the more expensive unit, and the one I have works better than a vacuum cleaner or no unit at all.
There are a good many companies out there that offer these affordable units. Delta is a good brand as well as Jet. Pick what hurts your pocket book the least.
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A little late to be replying, but I have excellent luck with two 22" floor-type box fans with blue furnace filters on the 'suck' side. I hung 'em from the ceiling in my small shop. I also made a smaller filter from something about the size of a big shoebox, with a fan inside and a removable filter outside, again on the 'suck' side. This I set up near whatever machine I am running. I get about 95% of the dust. Cost: 3 blue 'horsehair-type' 24x24"x 1" thick cleanable filters, two box fans @ $3/ea, and one small 'Little Sucker' @ ~$1 for materials. Filters are $6 ea and last forever, because I can clean 'em with a vacuum cleaner, and once a year wash 'em in the bathtub. Also, important to me, they are very quiet when running.
Les
Les
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Posted By Les on 10/21/2008 3:54 PM
A little late to be replying, but I have excellent luck with two 22" floor-type box fans with blue furnace filters on the 'suck' side. I hung 'em from the ceiling in my small shop. I also made a smaller filter from something about the size of a big shoebox, with a fan inside and a removable filter outside, again on the 'suck' side. This I set up near whatever machine I am running. I get about 95% of the dust. Cost: 3 blue 'horsehair-type' 24x24"x 1" thick cleanable filters, two box fans @ $3/ea, and one small 'Little Sucker' @ ~$1 for materials. Filters are $6 ea and last forever, because I can clean 'em with a vacuum cleaner, and once a year wash 'em in the bathtub. Also, important to me, they are very quiet when running.
Les
Yea Les
This is exactly what I was talking about. Only you expressed it better
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Great Minds run on parallel tracks
A little late to be replying, but I have excellent luck with two 22" floor-type box fans with blue furnace filters on the 'suck' side. I hung 'em from the ceiling in my small shop. I also made a smaller filter from something about the size of a big shoebox, with a fan inside and a removable filter outside, again on the 'suck' side. This I set up near whatever machine I am running. I get about 95% of the dust. Cost: 3 blue 'horsehair-type' 24x24"x 1" thick cleanable filters, two box fans @ $3/ea, and one small 'Little Sucker' @ ~$1 for materials. Filters are $6 ea and last forever, because I can clean 'em with a vacuum cleaner, and once a year wash 'em in the bathtub. Also, important to me, they are very quiet when running.
Les
Yea Les
This is exactly what I was talking about. Only you expressed it better
Great Minds run on parallel tracks
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