Building a ceramic burner

I have been watching these posts on the C18 with great interest.

I have now run my C18 a couple of times this month with a 2hour session just today. I seem to have a slightly different set of variables I am working under than what you are experiencing. I don't seem to have a problem with pressure, having no problem getting 60-70 lbs of steam, granted I am in SoCal and running with outside temps near 65 degrees. I do however seem to have a challenge of getting that steam to the cylinders. First run of the day went very well, the second run was plagued by a stuck safety that released steam from 60 psi down to 0 psi. After poking at the safety, the third run did little but spit water out of the stack even with the sight glass showing only 3/4 height of water.
My biggest challenge has been trying to keep a constant rate of speed (not overly successful).

The burner puts out quite a bit of heat although the ceramic surface is only glowing red forward of center (similar burning area to what you show for the factory burner). I only turn the gas valve 1/2 turn to achieve what appears to be fully open. I have the opposite problem of trying to turn down the gas so I am not constantly running with the safeties firing off.

Curious to see you new burner in action.

Jesse

Tyler,
Sounds like Terry may also have a “defective” burner..,although I haven’t seen his in operation as yet. if you have enough of these “defects”, then there’s either a subset of burners with some substandard ceramic material (maybe ceramic from a specific lot) and/or a design flaw in general that becomes apparent under specific conditions (colder temps vs warm).
i certainly would call Cliff (might have done that first) and ask for a replacement. I’ll encourage Terry to do likewise. We’ll see if the problems go away…

Still a good exercise for you to experiment with improving the design of the burner. You will undoubtedly learn more if you try to make an alcohol burner for this engine. Given where you live and your planned operating window ( winter), that design should work better for you anyway….Remember there is a reason why Aster largely moved away from gas burners—besides their early attempts being problematic.

For a beginner, you’ve come a long way fast.

Sam

Tested the engine on rollers tonight.
The design of the burner is self drafting. I don't need a fan or blower to start and run the engine.

The flip side, the blower would actually help with pressure because it would draw the heat into the firetubes. However, it did not produce enough heat to maintain pressure once I engaged the throttle.

This is exacerbated by the fact that once it gets hot, the flame flashed under the ceramic.

I'm looking back through other posts for solutions, has anybody else had experience with this?

boilingwater said:

What is different about this boiler design that keeps this burner or the original from effectively working.?

Hopefully, you get some better answers before you move on to an alcohol burner.

Sam

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Sam,
Looking at my previous post of pictures comparing my burner to the factory burner at a high setting, I don't think the OEM design is meant to act as a radiant heat source like Bill's ceramic burners are designed to. Ceramic burner output is a factor of size and heat per area. Bill ends up with large burners compared to what I built. The Heavyweight Ruby he made had a burner still bigger than what I made. Trying to get too many BTU per inch is what is causing the fuel air mixture to pre-ignition under the plate. If you look at Bills builds, a loco this size would have two #8 jets feeding a 3 inch by 4 inch burner.

Again looking at the stock burner flame profile, it appears they are not trying the radiant ceramic heat system, but a ceramic butane diffuser to produce a flame similar to the profile of an alcohol system.

My question is the purpose of, and the effects of the flame baffle. Do alcohol locos have these?

RioGrandeFan said:

I am almost tempted to ship you my burner to see if that really is the issue

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Riograndefan,
That is a generous offer, but I think I'll pass on that for now. I'll contact Accucraft to ask them if I can get a burner exchange.

The other C-18 here had a good first run, but every subsequent run has been disappointing for that owner....

I am wondering if the common variable is environment. Early December when I first got the engine I had temps as high as 55 outside and would notice the performance decrease as the sun fell. Now, my garage is maintained at 40 and it will run light engine if I turn the heat up to 50. Tomorrow my daytime high is 3F outside. Aside from keeping the fuel tank warm enough to operate, which I solve with warm water in the tender, I think I just have too little heat capacity to raise the temperature 212F as opposed to only 147F.

Unless I can make some breakthroughs on the ceramic side, I may pursue the alcohol route to get the heat density I need to run outside in winter.

Tyler

Reading the manual again and it looks like at some point maybe they were going to have an alcohol version and cold weather can make disappointing levels of performance. They mention wicks in the Firing Up section and mention poor cold performance in ColdWeather Running section.

tyler,

I’ll look for my spare alcohol tank. It should be a lot easier to make a manger wick box to test. The baffle is usually designed into alcohol fired engines to direct heat. Perhaps Acc felt like it was needed based on the design of the boiler.

The manger wick works great on both my Daylight and U1. I think I also have some material to create the wicks for you.

Like I said before, this is the better way for you to go given the cool weather or winter time operation based on your work schedule.

I’ll see what I can get together for you.

Any word from Cliff on a replacement burner?

Sam

Spoke with Cliff yesterday. He confirmed the flame baffle is supposed to simulate the brick arch.
The replacement burner would have to come from Japan, there are no spares inventory in the US right now, all they've received from over sees so far is complete engines for RTR deliveries.
His advice was to check for loose connections, I purged all line checking for blockages, then made sure all connections were tight without leaks.
He looked at the picture of my factory burner at full flow outside the engine and said that it should be a good steamer.


I may get a jet holder from mini steam, a us dealer of box burners so that I can more easily mess about with the air mixture and see if going more rich on my burner makes a better flame for this firebox.

The ceramic burner I built, that's all that is left to try is mess with the mixture. Next step is alcohol as Sam suggested.