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Discussion Starter · #41 ·
Thanks Dave....
OOOPS, I originally wanted to run the return line from the pond along the steps where I just buried the drainage pipe.
OH well. I'll just run it up along side the river I guess.
 

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Nice work, it's really coming along!

Try to use a variety of rocks sizes and shapes as you build your mountains, from top to bottom. If you use all the large rocks at the base of the mountains, and put only smaller ones on top, it won't look as natural. Study full-size mountains. In many cases the largest sections of solid rock on a real mountain, are at the top. Smaller rocks tend to end up lower, because they have broken off the main mass. Of course, if you put only small ones at the bottom and only large ones at the top, that won't look natural either.
 

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Discussion Starter · #43 ·
Thanks, I am concerned about the Mountain/cliff ending up looking like a bunch of rocks mortared together.

Today I picked up 200' of PVC, some stakes and $30 worth of Portland cement and concrete for only $2! Busted bags at Lowe's...
 

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Posted By Biblegrove RR on 01/04/2009 6:52 PM
Thanks, I am concerned about the Mountain/cliff ending up looking like a bunch of rocks mortared together.


Just a suggestion but, don't mortar them... build a loose base of rocks, then infill with soil, add another layer of rocks and more soil.. keep adding untill you get to your desired height. THEN.. plant mosses and small shrubs in the exposed soil areas between the rocks.. half a growing season later you'll be amazed at the realism..
 

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Discussion Starter · #47 ·
Thanks,

Ray has been most helpful and I am using most all of his suggestions too.

Here is a 10' loop of PVC to get a rough idea of the 1st installation.
I multiplied 10' x 3.1416 (pie) to get circumfrance.
 

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Biblegroverr

Looking back at your original plan, it might be convenient for you to start the track up the hill at a different place on the lower loop so that it becomes a return loop. Also how about bringing the river meanduring down the hill in the middle of the hill so that the rail road has to bridge is several times on it's way up the hill. It would add more railroad interest.

Terl
 

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Do not discount using cement to make mountains even if you incorporate you rocks within the formations
I think one mistake that could be made if you use rocks and mortar is trying to lay it up as if you were making a wall
place your rocks in the cement, with a 2-4 inches apart and let your cement almost dry and then shape the cement to
resemble your stones, the mistake people make with cement is trying to shape while it is still wet or soft.
Below is a couple sites i have submitted
Dennis


www.mylargescale.com/Community/Forums/tabid/56/forumid/9/tpage/1/view/topic/postid/37566/Default.aspx
www.mylargescale.com/Community/Forums/tabid/56/forumid/9/postid/36650/view/topic/Default.aspx
 

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Discussion Starter · #50 ·
Yeah, I come across this old issue of GR and would like to follow this article's guidelines.


Has anyone reading this have experiance they can share please.
 

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Discussion Starter · #52 ·
Here is my latest plans to incorporate more of the river/waterfall into the track plans... HELIX baby!


I wonder if I could run a little side stream (off the main river) down the hill into town that ends in small pond. In that pond have an overflow tube run down to the Main pond?
Maybe have someway to adjust the flow etc?
 

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Discussion Starter · #54 ·
Thanks Dave!

BTW I do a great Grover impression from Sesame Street! Just for the 4 year old of course.... : p
 

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Just my opinion, but I am not a big fan of helixs. There is quite abit of tack in that helix, that I think would be more interesting to stretch out and put on the slope. I would definitely mock it up with electrical PVC pipe and compare it to snaking down the slope.

Terl
 

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Discussion Starter · #56 ·
pertaining a Helix... I do not know the Helix rules as to diameter/grade etc.
I am considering the use of a larger 10' Dia. Circle on the bottom and an 8' Dia curve on the "top".
This way the bottom curve will cross the creek on the down side of the hill and the top curve will come
around behind it as you are looking up hill. A rather tall trestle will be needed on top and maybe a tunnel
on the lower curve. This portion will no doubt determine whether this route will be a one way down hill
only or if it can be climbed within a 2% grade.
Question: Is 10" enough for clearence of a train.
a 3% grade would give me 1.23' of clearence I think...

I will still have to snake up and down the hill but wanting 8-10' curves makes it tough to turn around on such a steep slope.
Thanks for the reminder to mock it up with my PVC, after racking my brain using my imagination. It will take on a whole new
aspect when I actually stake grade etc.

thanks
 

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Let's do some quick calculating for your helix. I would make 10" clearance the minimum from the top of the rail to the Bottom of the bridge above. Assume that it is 2" from the bottom of the bridge to the top of the bridge rail, this would give us an even 1 foot rail to rail. With a 10 foot diameter curve the circumference is about 31 feet and the grade would be 1ft / 31ft = 3.2%. With 8 ft diameter the circumference is 25 ft so the grade is 1/25 = 4%. This would be about the limit for traction on such a curve. Actually you would be much better off to make all your curves level and make the grade of the track steeper between the return curves. For a 2% grade curve with 1 ft of grade rise you would need 1/ 0.02 = 50 feet of circumference, which is about 16 foot diameter. It might be a good idea on your return curves to plan on cutting into the hill on the upper part of the curve and use that dirt to fill in on the lower part of the curve. This would reduce how high your tresttle work would be needed on the lower part and how far (what diameter) it would stick out in the air on the downhill part.

Terl
 

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Discussion Starter · #58 ·
Steps are almost finished...

I am mimicking Ray Dunakin's steps on his most awesome layout. Thanks RAY


I used a combination of mortar and liquid nails to place the top blocks on the steps. The steps I used
mortar on are more level that the step I only used liquid nails to seal to steps.
Now all that is left is to finish the "faces" of the steps with alluminum foiled mortar to copy the natural
stone look. I do not have heavey duty foil but can glue a few sheets together? I am a bit nervous about
this next step, any suggestions would be more than appreciated please!
 

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Standard foil sprayed with Pam will work. Just make sure you coat the whole thing. For applying texture to the steps, you don't don't need more than a single layer of foil. I recommend doing it in sections. Anything bigger than about 12" x 16" gets too hard to control when applying it to the surface.

I used high-strength mortar mix without any additional Portland cement. The only additive was the coloring agents. Only a tiny amount of color is needed to properly tint the mortar to a good stone-like color. Don't mix it too dry. You don't want it runny, like gravy, either. More of a pudding consistency. Smear it onto the Pam'd foil, about 1/4" to 1/2" thick. Wet the steps a little before applying the texture to insure good adhesion. Lift the foil by two corners, and slap it up against the step. Then press the foil down, smooshing the mortar into the surface a bit.

Remove the foil after the mortar has reached the "green" stage of the cure -- solid, but not fully hardened. You can wait until it's completely hard but it might be a little more difficult to pull the foil out of the creases. I sometimes used a small wire brush to blend the seams between foil-textured sections.

On my steps, I used the foil method on the front of the steps, and just spread a thin layer of tinted mortar over the top of the steps with my hand. This produces a surface which was rough enough to provide good traction even when wet. However, you could use the foil method on the tops too, it's up to you.

BTW, Bob Treat's article on using concrete to simulate stone on his layout is what gave me the idea for texturing my steps and tunnel interiors. I've seen his layout in person and the simulated stone mountains look great. I would have used his method on my layout if I couldn't get real stone. One thing I might have done differently than him, is add a small amount of color to the concrete mix. I think this would prevent chipped or worn areas from standing out.
 

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Discussion Starter · #60 ·
ok, the weather finally came around this past weekend and I got the first limestone retainer wall started.

Shouldn't I start thinking about some drainage pipes to place between layers? This wall won't get much higher that the highest rock shown.
I want to use that 15" around, black flexable drainage pipe for tunnels but at Lowe's...20ft.=$130!
I am going to price it at Menard's, they are always cheaper on everything!
 
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