It's a 2/3 AAA 3.6v but it has a proprietary connector

DCC & Sound PH-PB9
I'm not sure it has a proprietary connector - more likely a small JST. However, you can just snip the wires and twist them to wires on a different battery.
2/3 AAA 3.6V packs are readily available. Greg's website suggests (a) you only need the battery to keep the sound going when stopped, and (b) that they are NiMH.

Phoenix Sound

Greg Elmassian web site on large scale trains and garden railroads, cigars, and computers

elmassian.com

He also points out that some Phoenix batteries are wired backwards.

 

Get a new battery, cut off the old leads to the old battery, solder to new battery

 

Thanks guys. I'll snip the connector off the original battery pack and reuse it on the new one. What's the best way to find out if the original Phoenix pack is wired backwards as it is dead now?
Thanks

 

if you power the unit up, you can use a meter on the wires to the battery to confirm plus and minus...

you could also check the manual (page 5)

 

Thanks for the help on this. I did buy a new battery pack and spliced the old connector on. Used a meter to confirm the plus and minus. It worked briefly but quit working after that. Now I suspect the board has an issue.

 

It worked briefly but quit working after that.

Did you make sure it was charged fully before you turned the board on?

 

remove the battery.. does it still work when powered with at least 12v?

something is weird, check your wiring (leaving the battery disconnected)

 

so, let's debug this in a straightforward manner... removing the battery eliminates an entire "path" of debugging... just does not run on low voltage

so test on higher voltage, and find the NEW fundamental issue...

get it working WITHOUT the battery, if you succeed then on to battery testing, if it fails, then into the trash it goes..

Again I suspect wiring

 

The sound plays perfectly while track power is on. It continues to play down to around 4 volts. The battery was charged to 3.4 volts when I received it. I charged it for a half hour before testing the sound. My multimeter showed 3.5 volts when I tested it at the connector so I know my splice was ok. All other wires are secure.

 

OK, so you said it worked briefly, and then quit...

so, under track power, at over 4 volts everything is fine (if not, re post!)

so now to the battery...

measure the battery voltage when disconnected...

now connect it (and with loco unpowered) re-measure, should get the same setting or a little lower

fire up the loco, give the system at least 12 volts... now measure the battery, it should be higher... if not, the on board "charger" has stopped working.

report back your results please

 

Battery 3.36 volt
With 14 volts of power to the unit:
Measured 6 volts with the sound turned on. (at the pins on the sound card)
but less than 1 volt with the sound turned off
Now making a second attempt to charge it with the sound on. Previous attempts were twice with the sound off and once with the sound on. Each at 30+ minutes

 

Update:
After removing the battery, reinstalling it, and recharging it again, the sound is working perfectly now. I tested it again this morning and all is still ok. Just in time to run the locomotive at the train show this weekend. I want to thank both of you again for helping me with this. I might have just given up without your help. Hopefully I won't have to resurrect this thread in the future with the same issue. Thanks again 🚂

 

so, now that the strange things are done, I have a few questions:

the manual states a 3.6v battery, I assume this is a 3 cell nickle metal hydride? what battery DID you buy?

while it's getting at least 12v on the track, i.e. while connected, what is the voltage being applied to the battery?

I think you stated 6 volts.. and that seems too high to charge this battery, and perhaps will hasten it's demise... normally about 1.5v per cell is good charge voltage, i.e. around 4.5 volts for charging...

interested in your answers, and anyone else that has measured the battery charging voltage.

 

I purchased Kastar NiMH 2/3AAA 3.6V 500mAh from Amazon.
I measured 6 volts at the connection for the battery while about 16 volts was being applied to the rails.
Might be trying to figure out what's wrong with our PB22 card next. But I will start another topic if I get to that.

 

There's no specs from Phoenix, but I've used and charged rechargeable batteries for many years, and I am also an electronic engineer... and spent a lot of time learning about them.

1.4 volts per cell is about right... some chargers will go up to 1.6 per cell, but drop back to 1.4 after charge is complete.

The "charging" circuit is rudimentary in a Phoenix... so, at the very least the 6 volts will prematurely damage the batteries relatively quickly...

constant voltage is the WRONG way to charge a battery, constant current better, and tapered charge current even better and end of charge detection takes an ASIC or microprocessor...

So, enjoy it, but the battery may get hot when charging and lose life.... just warning you... the unit will work until it damages the battery and then it won't run sound very long or at all at low track voltages...

(the better thing would have been a super cap that can handle that 6 volts, but that would be a lot more $$).

just ranting...

Greg

 

We setup our display today for a train show so I measured the voltage at the track while we ran the locomotive. We just run it slow back and forth so the voltage read from 5 to 11 volts. We have been using that locomotive at about 7 of our events each year for 5 years. So we have 250-300 hours of use on the original battery. I would expect more than that for a battery pack. I wonder how long the new one will last.
Thanks

 

hard to tell, since we did not measure the current, nor really investigate the charging circuit in detail. At lower voltages the charging voltage will drop, so your slow running should reduce the overcharging damage to an extent.