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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Here is a video of my venture into 1:20 scale. The Shay, boxcar, and caboose are as yet painted, they get decals and weathering next.


This is the inaugural run of all three, I figured a little shakedown was in order prior to decaling and weathering. The Shay had run a few hours on test rollers and been lubed twice. Then it developed problems with the center truck, That truck would just not start turning the wheels until it got to half throttle. I tore it apart twice, cleaned and re-lubricated it, added wiring to by[pass the spring contacts on the mounting pivot, (which didn't seen to help) and finally taped on the motor shaft while it was running at full speed. Now it seems to start at a lower voltage, so I figured I'd try it on real track instead of rollers.


This is 6 short clips out of almost two hours of video, Please pay attention to the starting and stopping. How does it compare to other Bachmann Shays?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SIYwhNvpCs


I also included a full speed run pass, Does the speed seem about right for the top end on a shay?The engine seems fairly capable, I did quite a few coupling and uncoupling moves, I don;t think it pulls as well as my LGB Mikado, but it is more than strong enough for the few cars I plan for it. The 1:20 scale Bachmann boxcar is really nice. For now I'm using a Bachmann 1:22 scale caboose until I build a Hartford Kit caboose to go with the Shay or upcoming Kay.


 


 
 

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Nice video , it reminded me of CASS in W Virginia , looks good .
If I had to pick 'something' , it would be the bell sound , it doesn't have the bell ring sound , to me it just sounds like a hammer hitting metal , is all .
 

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Bob

Nice video ...

I too was not a fan of the bell but otherwise the sound was good and well synchronized - I am not an expert on shay exhaust sounds or whistles so those with recordings from Cass could comment more on that.

In terms of speed, the top end if anything is fast - In real life, shays rarely exceed 10 mph and likely were incapable of doing more than 15 mph. How fast is that in the model world? You can be the judge. Don't believe for a moment that time isn't scaleable (we can debate the reasons why elsewhere).

I have seen several real shays in motion but I have never seen one go so fast that the chuff sounded the way your video did - I suspect that would have been a real emergency to go that fast especially on the typically rough track shays were run on.

In terms of capacity, I have a pair of B'mann 2 truck shays. As Dave Goodson often reports, once the wheels have been worn in to take the slick shiny finish off, the tractive effort of these beasts is pretty high. I would bet mine against an LGB Mike up a grade so I suspect you will find the 3 truck to also be a powerful puller. More weight could no doubt be added if greater tractive effort was required. I visited Dave Goodson a few years ago out in Seattle. He ran his shay that night and in the drizzle on slippery rails, it handily pulled 28 cars up a stiff (3%?) 80 foot long grade. It made me a believer.

Regards ... Doug
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Thanks guys,


The high speed run seems to work out to about  20 scale MPH, I think. That was at full throttle with the Decoder set so the max motor voltage was at 33% of track voltage.


Looks like the Bachmann model should have been geared down some more.


I'll try setting vmax to 25%


Sorry about the confusion over the sound. Those were the K27 sounds loaded into the Shay,


I was so intent on the center gearbox problem that i forgot to reload the shay sounds into the sound card.


Those were actually the sounds I was working on for my new ( as yet, not arrived) Bachmann K27.


And yes, I still have work to do on those sounds, The bell is not only disgusting, but it is a mechanical bell sound, not a hand operated bell sound. It will be changed ( and a lot of other sounds) before that file gets loaded into the Kay, When I reload the Shay sounds into the Shay and have both the Kay and Shay running I'll make another video so you can hear them together and perhaps give me some more hints about the sound.


 


B0B


 
 

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Bob,

If you want a real world comparison, try this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izD1HRaSzss

At 1:55 in the clip, they start a 3 way drag race between a Heisler, a Shay running light, and a Shay with a train. Kind of the real world version of your "high speed pass" and you can see and hear about what it looks like at full throttle.

Matthew (OV)
 

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I also recently added a 3-truck shay to the roster, and I'm quite happy with it. I installed a Phoenix 2K2 system with the 3-truck Shay sound track, and I think you'll be pleased with the whistle and bell, should you choose to load those. One thing I've noticed is that with only three chuffs per crankshaft revolution, the exhaust sounds aren't as rapid as the "real thing", but I can live with that. While riding the Georgetown Loop, behind Ashby's Shays, I've observed that the exhaust beats become almost indistinguishable even before the beasts are up to speed. It gets pretty much that way on the model, too, even with just our 50% rate.

I enjoyed your videos, but concur that the the full speed run-by might be a tad too fast. Of course, I've often been chided about running my models "too slow". I think whatever speed looks good to you is just fine. Guess I'm not that much of a purist. Will be interesting to see and hear the new K along with your Shay!
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
In a few weeks I'll be able to do some accurate speed measurements and set max speed correctly, For now I was just  wondering how close I was getting. Thanks for letting me know it is too fast.


So, Anyone know just how fast the real Shay and K27 run?


That video was shot with the Max speed setting in the Decoder set to 33% of track voltage, which should be applying about 1/3 of 20 volts to the motor, about 6.6 volts.


BTW, At speed step 1 it takes the Shay about 7.5 seconds to move one tie.


I'm not entirely happy with the smoothness of the Shay's slowest speed, but with a little more run time and some more tweaking of the decoder, and I think I will be very pleased.


Still a lot of work to do on it, get the Shay sounds reinstalled, Decals for the ALLY, maybe a little rust, some tools and a toolbox.


With the Kay's gear-head motor, I think Bachmann may have finally made a loco I could love. I'm looking forward to seeing just how smooth the Kay will run. Just hope the wheels are round.


Another video is in the works, Maybe next weekend I'll have the Kay and Shay both running.


B0B


 
 

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Bob, I sent you my own 3-truck Shay video as a "video response":) - I shot the video I think 3 days after I received the loco last January.  Mine is the factory "DCC-&-Sound-On-Board" version (a.k.a "Quasinimi"/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/sick.gif to some!/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/wow.gif).  Here's the link for anyone else interested in seeing it: www.youtube.com/watch .;) Since the photos were taken right after I got the Shay, it still hadn't been fully converted to Kadee couplers yet (only the rear coupler had been converted)/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/blush.gif, & I just recently lettered it for my "Watuppa Railway".  If you check out my 2 Kadee coupler videos on YouTube, you can see how it looks now.:cool:                                                                   Tom
 
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Very nice tom.
Yea, rub it in, Only took you a couple days! 
I wold have loved to be able to just plop it down and run it like most of my big LGB locos, but mine came without the sound or DCC. The extra 200 bucks was just a waste. Had I known they did not have enough sound equipped Shays to fill my order I would have never ordered the Shay.. Bachmann refuses to make it right, apparently they can't because they didn't order enough sound cards. 

Took me a month to hand wire in a decoder and sound card, but now that it is almost done, I rather pleased with the loco. I would have gotten several had I been able to without all the aggravation of trying to deal with Bachmann. 
I put Kadees on mine too, I've done a few switching operations with it. The Shay is plenty smooth enough for delayed uncoupling. 

On your Shay, do the headlights dim as advertised for the Tsunami? Does the flicker effect intensify as advertised for the Tsunami? How did you letter the Shay? That is my next step.
 

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"On your Shay, do the headlights dim as advertised for the Tsunami? Does the flicker effect intensify as advertised for the Tsunami? How did you letter the Shay? That is my next step."


From what I've seen so far, Bob, I've not noticed ANY dimming of the headlights of change in firebox flicker; the latter appears to be the straight Bachmann "flicker board" by appearance, have not had a reason to disassemble the firebox to verify that./DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/blush.gif  I wasn't even aware that the headlights COULD be dimmed on a Tsunami (which this isn't REALLY, just that it "uses Tsunami technology" - hence the "Quasinimi"/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/sick.gif label some have applied to it!).  The headlights DO reverse appropriately & can be switched on-&-off via DCC, as you'd expect. 

If you checked out the "after" appearance with lettering in my Kadee Coupler "YouTube" videos, the lettering was done with self-adhesive vinyl lettering :) I picked up at an A.C. Moore craft store.  I've lettered 5 locomotives with this so far (the 3-trucker & my 38-ton 2-trucker, my Heisler, Climax, & my Accucraft live-steam Shay).  It's easy (if a bit tedious!/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/plain.gif) to apply; the lettering is available in 1/4", 1/2", & 3/4" heights.  I used the 1/4 size for number plates & headlight number boards (other than on the live-steam Shay, where I just lettered the tender; the smokebox gets hot enough that I think it would quickly MELT /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/crying.gif vinyl!).

Probably the biggest gripes:mad: I have about the Bachmann DCC-&-Sound-On_Board 3-trucker are the fraigle /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/cry.gif wiring harness & connector between the tender & loco (I've already had several wire breaks at the connector, currently looking for a more robust connector to replace it with), & the fact that I couldn't change the decoder address without buying Sierra's $60 "programming booster"/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/angry.gif - so that's why the 3-trucker became "Watuppa Railway
#3" on my roster!/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/laugh.gif                                                                                                            :rolleyes:Tom

 

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The 3 trucker looks great. Are you you using Voltage to trigger the chuff or reed switches? From the video, it looks like voltage. If so, it sounds pretty accurate, if not just a tad fast. You'll find that real shays, unless they are working up a really steep grade, don' make much sound at all, they just whir. But there's nothing we can do about that as modelers. Are you using the SR&RL phoenix sound? It seems to work really well.
 
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