Aster Mikado Kit

Dear Mr. GNSteamer:

Why are some people so hard on Accucraft?

These folks have made available Scale Accurate Prototype Live Steam Gauge One Locomotives previously not available in this price range. Not all hobbyists can afford the Aster models. In once owned an Aster Reno. I sold it unfired a few years back. Good thing. Would anyone care to post digital photos to compare the detail level of the Aster Reno and the present Accucraft 4-4-0 ?

Years ago I called up Accucraft and spoke with the late Accucraft President Charlie. I explained that I could not afford his brass locomotives but that I would like to purchase some Radely Hunter smoke stacks. He explained that these are a rare item and that he only has three of them at the China factory which he would be visiting next week. He asked if I could wait a few weeks for his return and he would mail me one. Of course I said that would be fine and Charlie agreed to sell me all three ( all of his stock ) which he personally brought back to the US in his briefcase carried onboard the aircraft.

I mentioned this to Cliff recently and he remarked that was the type person Charlie was. This service for a cold call stranger whom at the time did not even own any of his products.

Fast track to the present day and the 4-4-0 side rod and melting Radely Hunter smoke stack problems were solved quickly, were they not ?

I believe Aster owners are very concerned that the constantly improving Accucraft product line is threatening the Aster resale value. That is commerce. All of these trains are just toys for enjoyment. They are not a financial investment tool. Look on ebay to see what has happened to the resale value of high priced LGB electric locomotives. Some MINT models are being sold at 1/2 or 1/3 their original retail price.

Anyway, compared to 3 1/2" gauge live steam, the Aster #1 Ga. locomotives are just toys, not models, right ? (Don't blow a cylinder head gasket, that was a joke)

Another thread, regarding the Bachmann K-27 problems, descended into a three or four way personal insult boxing match. The model sells for peanuts compared to the brass Accucraft model. Their expectations are unrealistic for a plastic model. Just like an automobile, one needs to wait for the next release to get the bugs out. These are complicated items to design and manufacture perfectly.

Anyway, ALL of us are free to assemble the required RISK capital to approach the appropriate Orient subcontract builder and present a product to the market place.

At 48 years of age one becomes aware of one's limited time on earth. I have had several relatives and friends pass away from illness or accidents far younger than myself. One Canadian Sergeant, in his twenties, killed in Afghanistan has just had his funernal here today. Life really is too short to get into these personal assults. If anyone cares to, let me have it.

I have to go now and play with my trains.

Norman

Posted By norman on 09/11/2008 11:41 PM
Dear Mr. GNSteamer:
Would anyone care to post digital photos to compare the detail level of the Aster Reno and the present Accucraft 4-4-0 ?

- I have seen both run and also compared the Accucraft to the Argyle SPC 3. As for details the Accucraft and Argyle are based on the same prototype but vary in many ways. The most drastic is the large boiler on the Accucraft. As for detail and castings they all are highly detailed. The Accucraft tender is also very different from the Argyle but it seems at Accucraft too a shortcut and used the mogul tender as they are identical.

Years ago I called up Accucraft and spoke with the late Accucraft President Charlie. I explained that I could not afford his brass locomotives but that I would like to purchase some Radely Hunter smoke stacks. He explained that these are a rare item and that he only has three of them at the China factory which he would be visiting next week. He asked if I could wait a few weeks for his return and he would mail me one. Of course I said that would be fine and Charlie agreed to sell me all three ( all of his stock ) which he personally brought back to the US in his briefcase carried onboard the aircraft.

- All their parts are still a rare item as they do not make surplus parts for stock. The replacement stacks were made up within a few weeks of the request. Pretty fast but they received many calls. The drive rods

Fast track to the present day and the 4-4-0 side rod and melting Radely Hunter smoke stack problems were solved quickly, were they not ?

- The stacks were requested pretty fast Yes. The side rods are still not available and Cliff told me probally the fall as they have to make these as they do not have any parts available. Their parts program is use what damaged ones come back fcrom shipping. The 4-4-0 had no damages and all 260 models Cliff said were sold. If you need a part he said it could take 6 months.

I believe Aster owners are very concerned that the constantly improving Accucraft product line is threatening the Aster resale value. That is commerce.

- I beg to differ. Look at the Aster GS4 before the Accucraft came out. They were selling for about 4-5,000 on the used market. Fast foward to the Accucraft coming out with the problems it had it made the Aster more desirable and now they are selling for over 10,000. This is from a person that owned one 1st hand and sold if just before the Accrucraft unit came out and followed its resale to the current owner. It had changed hands 3 times and value has just increased each time.

All of these trains are just toys for enjoyment. They are not a financial investment tool. Look on ebay to see what has happened to the resale value of high priced LGB electric locomotives. Some MINT models are being sold at 1/2 or 1/3 their original retail price.
Anyway, compared to 3 1/2" gauge live steam, the Aster #1 Ga. locomotives are just toys, not models, right ? (Don't blow a cylinder head gasket, that was a joke)
Another thread, regarding the Bachmann K-27 problems, descended into a three or four way personal insult boxing match. The model sells for peanuts compared to the brass Accucraft model. Their expectations are unrealistic for a plastic model. Just like an automobile, one needs to wait for the next release to get the bugs out. These are complicated items to design and manufacture perfectly.
Anyway, ALL of us are free to assemble the required RISK capital to approach the appropriate Orient subcontract builder and present a product to the market place.

- I agree that some are too harsh on the details of some of the angines and rolling stock but I do belive that they should not take shortcuts or change things like running gear to simplify the models. Many parts are interchanged on the Accucraft models but some differ a lot from the prototype.

At 48 years of age one becomes aware of one's limited time on earth. I have had several relatives and friends pass away from illness or accidents far younger than myself. One Canadian Sergeant, in his twenties, killed in Afghanistan has just had his funernal here today. Life really is too short to get into these personal assults. If anyone cares to, let me have it.
I have to go now and play with my trains.

- Now I'm going to play trains all weekend


Norman

Norman
You stated, "I believe Aster owners are very concerned that the constantly improving Accucraft product line is threatening the Aster resale value."

Accucraft has very little in the way of direct competitive product line that would impede on Aster sales or resale value.

The only direct comparison would be with the GS4 in gauge one. Recently, two 1987 Aster GS4 sold for over $10K (if I remember correct 1987 kit was $6K). The Accucraft GS4 struggles to hold the original price on the current market.

Most Aster owners are loyal and support the manufacture products. Based the GS4 and CF I doubt that either will persuade a die-heart Aster to purchase Accucraft over Aster.

As to "constantly improving..." not so in 1:32 as the CF did not improve in some very critical areas of running gear in comparison to Accucrafts past experience of their Accucraft GS4 production base line. In fact a bit more lacking than the GS4 standards.

I am not sure that the side rod bearing situation nor the cross head bolts have been resolved quickly with proper parts other than some available OEM parts, certainly not upgraded ones.

What Accucraft has done well is offer a high detail, functional product marketed in such a way that allows more participation in the hobby of gauge one live steam. This they do very well, especially with NG products given there is no competition for a comparative basis.

So, if one is going to present a case that Accucraft is competing head to head and at the level of Aster (SG only) then the CF would have been about $16-18K with all the bells and whistles with proper components (e.g. combination levers). Finally, competing at an Aster level would also require Accucraft kits beyond the Ruby level.

Jay
Fact check
Look at the Aster GS4 before the Accucraft came out. They were selling for about 4-5,000 on the used market. Fast foward to the Accucraft coming out with the problems it had it made the Aster more desirable and now they are selling for over 10,000. This is from a person that owned one 1st hand and sold if just before the Accrucraft unit came out and followed its resale to the current owner. It had changed hands 3 times and value has just increased each time.


I have followed the Aster GS4 through the releasealong with it's market price for years. Never have I seen one for $4-5K, in fact most prior to Accucraft GS4 were 10-12K. If that was true I would have never purchased an Accucraft! The particular one must have been sold at that lower price for other factors than the "going market rate." BTW- does that particular person own any other Aster for sale at a 50% discount (seemingly not knowing that he had the best Aster on the market at the time and very rare to anyone in gauge one live steam)?

Since I have been involved in this hobby, I have every day enter ebay, etc. to see what is on selling, specially looking for Aster Engines. I have come across some very well taken care engines as some very bad engines. For what I have observed, some ugly engines of Aster will never sell or will sell in less price than what they were originally sold. I have observed too, that some new Accucraft engines even new, will not sell at their original price. And I have seen too, that some very special Asters, hard to find, like Big Boy, GS4, H-8,etc. they will always be sold and many of the times with an increase in price (live steam and electric version). To me personally, even if Accucraft comes with a live steam version of the Big Boy, I still will always prefer to buy an Aster, if I could find one that is pristine, even if I paid 2 or 3 times what the Accucraft will be. I know that if I someday require to sell it, I will always find somebody to buy it, not so with the Accucraft, unless I give a good discount. And so, I like accucraft engines and other brands too, but my special is Aster.

Thanks for all or your well written diatribes. I own live steam models from both manufacturers. The only concern that I have and this is not a criticism is the manufacturing and shipping schedules that one must accomodate as a consumer. I'm sure many of you are anxiously awaiting a particular product so that you can go out and enjoy. We are fortunate to have these few manufacturers that put out these live steam model products at the various price points that we all can feel comfortable budgeting and paying for. I have excellent dialogues with both Cliff and Hans and greatly appreciate what each of these gentlemen have contributed to our hobby. I will see Cliff this weekend in Portland at the Narrow Gauge Convention and will get together with Hans when he makes a trip up to the Pacific Northwest.

Posted By Charles on 09/12/2008 6:05 AM
Jay
Fact check
Look at the Aster GS4 before the Accucraft came out. They were selling for about 4-5,000 on the used market. Fast foward to the Accucraft coming out with the problems it had it made the Aster more desirable and now they are selling for over 10,000. This is from a person that owned one 1st hand and sold if just before the Accrucraft unit came out and followed its resale to the current owner. It had changed hands 3 times and value has just increased each time.
I have followed the Aster GS4 through the releasealong with it's market price for years. Never have I seen one for $4-5K, in fact most prior to Accucraft GS4 were 10-12K. If that was true I would have never purchased an Accucraft! The particular one must have been sold at that lower price for other factors than the "going market rate." BTW- does that particular person own any other Aster for sale at a 50% discount (seemingly not knowing that he had the best Aster on the market at the time and very rare to anyone in gauge one live steam)?




Bob Mosher sold his orignal one to a guy in Ca for around 5,000. This from a conversation at the NJLS Labor Day meet. Then it was sold to another and then the current owner Kaleb for 10 or 11,000.