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Discussion Starter · #21 ·
The new water glass turned up from TTD so I cut it to length and fitted it. The banjo bolt on the manifold had been leaking so I unscrewed it and found it had no paper washer (or maybe it disappeared in the last 20 years.) I noticed I had a couple of fiber washers in my bag and they were the right size, so I fitted them in the 2 places that leaked - top of the manifold and top of the water/sight glass.

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Then I pumped back in the water that had been emptied when I removed the water glass after the last test (that water is now on its 3rd re-use cycle,) and fired up. Success - well sort of.

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A decent pressure building up and no sign of leaks. However, the rear safety valve on the back of the boiler started spewing immediately and I had to keep tapping it down. (remember the "Best Friend of Charleston"?)
So I will have to find a new valve or take this one apart and clean the seal and fit a new spring.
 

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Discussion Starter · #22 ·
And the photo above brings up my next question. If the pressure gauge is kg/cm3 then what is each big black mark? 1kg/cm3? [Which should be about 15 psi?]
 

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Discussion Starter · #23 ·
As usual, Ryan had the answers to my questions.
Safety valve is adjustable (you can use the roundhouse tool or just grind your own from an old flat blade screw driver.
(Just like you do to make a Ronson gas valve removal tool !) I found I had some very small tweezers so a little filing to flatten the ends and it fits:

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The valve was a bit stiff, but a drop of 3-in-1 loosened it up.
Pressure gauge reads KG/cm2, which is close to BAR (atmospheres) in pressure. 1 bar=15 psi, 2=30, 3=45, 4=60. The safety should lift somewhere between 3-4 bar (or kg/cm2).
Another steam test is called for this afternoon. Work gloves will be needed to adjust the safety while it is blowing steam at me.
 

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Discussion Starter · #24 ·
A couple of days ago I ran 3 or 4 steam tests to set the safety valves and see if anything else leaked. With both valves screwed in, I got 2+ kg/cm3 or about 30+ psi showing on the gauge, and it ran on the rollers.
However, there were steam leaks at various banjo bolts on the top end - when it got bumped and the water glass broke, several joints moved, and the 20+ yr old paper gaskets now leak. The top fitting on the water glass leaked too, even though they were considerably more than finger tight. I figured I would have to dismantle it all and use Permatex "gasket maker". I used hi-temp red on a JNR 8550 kit a few years ago (because I lost the paper gaskets that came in the kit. :mad: )
Tearing it apart meant I could get at the rear safety valve. I already figured that, since most other locos get by with just one, I could ditch this and keep it as a spare. So with the manifold off, I dug out an M5 bolt and set it in the hole, which had a silicon washer in it suggesting it might have been 'fixed' in the past. We will see if it works. (In the photo, the hole is for the manifold.)

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Here's the components with the red 'gasket maker' in place. You but a bead all round the surface, squeeze it finger tight so the sealant oozes out, then you clean it off and leave it for an hour before final tightening. Then leave it another 24 hours to cure.

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And finally, for anyone interested, here's the upper water glass seal.

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The 2 thin washers are the ones that came out - one doesn't look great, and may have been scraped by the broken glass. The thick one on the left would have been my preference but it didn't want to go in the nut. For now I put a little sealant around the glass and tightened it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #25 ·
Today was steam test number 6 (?7). I think I used about a gallon of distilled water and a whole can of butane gas just getting it steam-tight.

The first attempt with the gasket-maker worked except on the top of the manifold. The banjo bolt has a curve,

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and the manifold has a large hole, so there wasn't much flat surface for the gasket.
(Why do banjo bolts have the curve?)

Anyway, I punched a hole in a dollar bill and made a paper gasket, covered both sides with permatex, and left it all to set again.

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This time it was a success. I had also adjusted the remaining safety valve and it did not leak, and 'pop'ped off at about 45 psi.

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Now to put it all back together so it can go to the Finger Lakes Live Steamers steam-up next weekend!
 

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That all looks good, Pete. Maybe you need to test it on a real layout before you go to New York.
The SC&M is back from vacation..........

Jerry
 

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Discussion Starter · #27 · (Edited)
Progress has been made, but other problems have surfaced. A run on Saturday at the Paradise East steam-up was uneventful, except for the glitch/stopping issue described below.

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I have acquired a Regner Goodall valve from Jason, and it will be fitted where the back safety valve used to be - hopefully there will be room. With the roof hatch modified to open, I'll be able to fill the boiler without the tender pump or the pipe feed.

Then yesterday we had an issue with the gas feed pipe, which demonstrated why you do NOT want an expansion tank. While trying to light it, the flame managed to ignite gas in the cab as it was leaking from the pipe. This was liquid gas under pressure and it burned the servo wires and left soot everywhere. I did manage to turn both valves off in the middle of the inferno.
I shortened the gas pipe a little but I'm looking for a replacement. I have some tube but it is thicker so I will have to find my stash of pipe clips.

Here's my run with some new C&S cars. The servo wires weren't destroyed, but I will have to think about some new ones, and a new receiver - you can see the glitching as the throttle rotates even though your finger is firmly on the TX stick!

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The problem that surfaced since I started running is that, after 5-10 minutes, when it is thoroughly hot, the loco stops for no apparent reason. It's not the r/c glitching - I can see the throttle hasn't moved nor the reverser. Reversing and then going back to forward doesn't help, but a firm push gets the loco moving again. It happens more than once a lap around the layout.

It seems unlikely to be valve timing, as, if it were, then it wouldn't start running again. Anyone seen anything like this before?
 

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Pete,
Could it be binding in the drive train. I had an electric that did the same thing, turned out that when in a particular position the drive train would lock up. Was much worse than yours as I had to physically pick up the loco and wobble the wheels until I got it out of that position. Would then run for a while until that particular position occurred again. Took a while to track it down.
 

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Pete , see if one of the piston rods has moved out of the crosshead a bit as you might have a piston getting so close to the cylinder end it traps steam/water and stops. I had a similar problem with one of my loco's and it just got worse quickly and totally stopped until not in steam. Can sometimes be easily noticeable by the number of threads visable on the piston rod when comparing the good side with the bad side. I carefully unscrewed, as much as I could, the piston rod then cleaned it and applied some Loctite then screwed the rod back in as far as it would go matching the other side.
But then again it could be valve timing, a slightly loose slide valve maybe or a semi loose eccentric? Being a slide valve engine it's easy to get the covers off to check, have you got the Aster manual for timing?
Good luck with it as when running they are a great engine with a powerful exhaust beat.
Russell
 

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Discussion Starter · #30 · (Edited)
Rich, Russell, thanks for the suggestions. I shelved the loco for a week or two after the fire and after all the work trying to persuade it to behave. Besides solving the 'stop' issue, I have to replace the receiver with a 2.4Ghz that doesn't need a tall antenna (!) and think seriously about dealing with the gas pipe. Rob had one at the steam-up and his has the modified gas setup, with the valve on the top of the tank and no expansion tank. I am thinking of running a tube up inside so I can keep the gas pipe at a low level.
And yes, I have the manual and the drawings.
 

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Time to update the gas fuel system to one that does not use the expansion tank. I still think Aster made that way overcomplicated, another version of them "overthinking" the gas firing design. Just as on the Frank S, which really should have its gas tank in locomotive cab to allow the boiler heat to keep it warm, just as most all side tank narrow gauge models do from other brands. Instead of going with the flow and using a common design, Aster went off on a rabbit trail design on the Mogul. But....I still want one someday! Keep at it Pete, you will conquer the old girl.
 

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I just unearthed silk screens which I used several years ago to print correct lettering on my black C&S mogul.
The silk screens have been made by a fellow live steam enthusiast at Mitaka (Kichijoji Kitaura) live steam club, I no longer recall his name. He made them from drawings kindly produced by our postdoc Ken Kiyono from photos of the original number 22 which I supplied. I then applied the screens using mighty strong white two component paint and solvent which I believe could solve anything! An incredibly difficult technique giving great results when correctly applied. Those were the days...!! Best wishes from Tokyo, Zubi View attachment 62038 View attachment 62039 View attachment 62040 View attachment 62041
Not to derail this thread but could you share how this silk screening is done?
 

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Discussion Starter · #33 · (Edited)
Well, back to work on this mess. The to-do list includes improving the water feed, revising the reverser servo linkage, changing the gas feed to get rid of the expansion tank, swapping the receiver to a 2.4Ghz version, and then investigating the dead-stop problem further.

I had noticed that Rob's loco had a copper pipe on the engine feeding the check valve, so I did that first. Much easier to make a quick-connect if one side is fixed and not floppy. I did have to swap ends, as you can't solder the female as it has o-rings, etc. Here's the result, ready for the black paint.

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I took the cab back off and removed the blank fitting I had installed instead of the second safety, and screwed in the Regner Goodall, which is M3 also.

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A tight fit against the pressure gauge (which has stopped working since the cab fire.)
Then I cut off the cab hatch - it refused to de-solder, and with the 4 little round pits I wonder if it is welded.

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The hatch was cleaned up and 2 alignment brass pieces added - a wide front and a simple rear to keep it in place.

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Then a quick spray of satin black 'paint+primer' on the roof and the hatch made it look good again. (You can just see the little round pits I mentioned.)

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Time for a steam test of the tender pump feed and the Goodall. First problem was that the throttle is directly below the safety mount.

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The Regner Goodall has a little sprung valve in the bottom which pops out when you pump water in - if there is room for it to move. I had to fit a spacing washer to lift the Goodall up to clear the throttle when open.

The other thing I found on the second test, where the Goodall and tender pump worked fine, was that the quick-connect dis-connected at full pressure. I guess the old check valve is letting some water past it and pressure is building, as the tender pump has a similar check valve.

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That made me wonder exactly what pressure it was getting to, so I checked the photos as it is almost impossible to get low enough to see the top of the gauge (bending it back would help.) I had turned down the first safety to the point that it was blowing at 5 bar: that's about 70 psi. Oops. :( I turned the safety adjust again to lower the pressure, and I think a new gauge is called for.
 

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Discussion Starter · #34 ·
[I'm posting these 2 sagas to avoid having to go back and solve the problems. . .]
OK. Reversing. I noticed the lever has a very long travel, and the servo wasn't pushing it all the way forward. I had also noticed that the throttle was jittery even though the radio TX was close. I am very familiar with 'metal-to-metal' contact interference on these old radios, so it is possible the jitteriness is making the servo glitch and close the reverser enough to make the loco come to a dead stop. (Hence the need for a new radio!)

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The darned lever is 2-3" long, so the servo has to move it about 1.5" inside the cab. I spent an afternoon playing with the existing servo, but despite extending the servo arm and moving the servo I couldn't get good forward movement without hitting the cab front, and it wouldn't go back far enough.

Then I had an idea - the servo looked awfully big. I dug into my box and found a new Hitec HS-65HB. It's a bit smaller!

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(You can just see the old servo on the right has 2 arm extensions. Long enough to move the reverser but also long enough to foul the cab front.)

Here's a couple of pics of the range that the servo has to handle. Forward gear:

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Reverse:

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So since deciding to go with the Hitec, I've been experimenting with possible mounting positions, as it doesn't have to go on top of the water glass where the big one was fitted. At the moment, the throttle servo is behind the water glass, so if I mount it where shown above I will have to move the throttle servo.
 
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