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Discussion Starter · #3 · (Edited)
Actually its the yellow cylinder mappgas in the trailing car
Not noticeble the more heat output ,throttle settings are in the same position.
 

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Went by so fast didn't see it. The Propane burns hotter than Butane and further research showed that the MAAP gas is supposed to burn hotter than straight Propane. Was not available locally last year, but hopping to see it this year. Not familiar with the Aristocraft Mikato, but on the K4 I had to open the air collars all the way (it has two burners) as propane needs more O2. In addition I installed a valve in the tender so can go back to Butane at times.
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This (Fuel Gas & Melting Temperatures | Contenti) says it better than I could: Almost 1,000 degrees difference between Butane and Propane. Doesn't appear to be much difference between Propane and MAAP, but the MAAP was 3 or 4 times the cost, last year anyway. Sooooo guess I'll just stick with the Propane.

Fuel GasMax TemperatureCharacteristics
Acetylene3300°FHighest flame temperature. Many torch options available. Produces carbon soot and cannot be used with Platinum. Must be purchased from a welding/gas supplier. Not sold in most hardware stores.
Propane2800°FLess expensive than acetylene and more readily available. Clean burning. Can be purchased in small disposable cylinders. Lower flame temperature than acetylene. Should not be stored indoors.
Hydrogen2650°FRelatively high flame temperature. Perfect for casting platinum because it’s clean burning. Expensive and only available from specialty suppliers.
MAPP®2900°FCombination of liquefied petroleum gas and methylacetylene-propadiene. Readily available in small disposable cylinders. Clean burning and high temperature.
Natural Gas2750°FLower temperature. Safe and cost effective if you already have a natural gas hookup, but requires a professional to install.
Butane1760°FAffordable and readily available. Small containers means it’s very portable. Low temperature.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Hi Nick
We are not welding ,I don't think with our burners and using map gas will be reaching this high temperature
Homekaput was out of propane so I grabet the map
P
 

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Still much hotter than Butane using just air. I did notice the K4 easily held the pressure pulling that string of 3 axle Heavyweights (mail/frieght car still has the original 2 axle trucks) through the curves and with the addition of the tank and a 12V gel cell for car lighting. With Butane I occasionally would have to stop to allow boiler pressure to re-build, and I don't run as fast as you. As I mentioned I'm not familiar with the Mikato, is there an air adjustment on the burner? Pic's please? The quick disconnect and valve in the tender will allow me to go back to butane when pulling freight, I do have to re-adjust the air collars.
It is now all lit up.
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I have still the stockburner no aircolar sorry no pics
 

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Personally I don't know why you would need to use Mapp or propane on the Aristo Mikado if the gas modulator in the tender is adjusted properly. The shortcoming of this engine is the small water bath they had around the butane tank. Some people had a problem with too hot a flame and smoke box fires melting the plastic stack and cylinder covers. But some of that could be blamed on an improper flame shape on the poker burner. I have never had problem with too cool a flame as long as the water bath heats the butane tank sufficiently. Plenty of heat to blow off the pressure relief valves regularly .
 

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bobstrong: I miss spoke, meant the Mikato. I understand the Aristo was made of a heat resistant plastic, a great innovation, very sorry they are not around any more, can only imagine what the Polk's would have introduced to our hobby. I was wondering why lotsasteam indicated he didn't appear to get more heat with Propane. My research, with the help of others, showed the Aristo doesn't have the ability to allow MORE air to enter the burner, which propane needs. The quest for more heat has been ongoing, hence the radiant burner, ceramic burner and use of alcohol and coal for fuel.
 

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bobstrong: I miss spoke, meant the Mikato. I understand the Aristo was made of a heat resistant plastic, a great innovation, very sorry they are not around any more, can only imagine what the Polk's would have introduced to our hobby. I was wondering why lotsasteam indicated he didn't appear to get more heat with Propane. My research, with the help of others, showed the Aristo doesn't have the ability to allow MORE air to enter the burner, which propane needs. The quest for more heat has been ongoing, hence the radiant burner, ceramic burner and use of alcohol and coal for fuel.
I've had mine I luckily bought brand new never ran about 7 years ago and quickly discovered the short comings of a small water Tank. So keeping pressure up for the Butane to provide enough heat I got into a conversation with a Electrical Engineer retired in the UK that also had two of the Aristo Mikados Live Steam. We modified ours very simply. Running 16 volts track power he engineered a simple "heater" out of a resister installed in the water tank and a thermal shut off switch which regulated the water tank to about 120 degrees and a on/off Switch hidden in the Tender. We both installed his system. Simply turn on track power and Heat switch. Water stays hot and steady temperature keeping Butane warm and plenty of flame for the burner now. You need to of course add some pickups to your Tenders wheels for power but I am sure you experienced Modelers have all done that before. I run mine easily at 60 psi pulling my heavy weight Aristo Passenger cars easily on Butane with out it stopping to build pressure in the past. Simple System and yes the Aristo Live Stem Mikados can be ran on a powered track. I rarely Post being a very quiet Live Steam Locomotive and Electric Locomotive Collector but the Mikado among my 30+ Locomotives is a real pleasure to run. The Polk Family were they still in business today I'm sure would have dev eloped more fantastic Live Steam versions... Ken
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
M y Mikado was a first generation loco ,running outside around 30 Fahrenheit would not work ,beside gutting the electronic and installing a water bath heater via blowdown valve I used Tony's RCS .The throttle unit replaced with a servo and the stock forward/reverse motor connected to a servoelectronic,the ignition connected with a push button
direct to a battery.The trailing car holds the propane with the regulator ,a fuel tube bypasses
the tender direct to the stock jet.Why??? I get ca 10 hrs run time per bottle,no tankfilling
or warm water bath anymore
Consistent long runs in any weather.
And most of all :Its fun to tinker around and very rewarding!





euntime
 

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Ken, most of us that run live steam do so on unpowered track. To heat the water bath we actually pick off the boiler and run a line to the tender, does a fine job. Or like lotsasteam did direct it to the Mike water bath.
lotsasteam: I converted my K4 to propane for the same reason, I LIKE TO TINKER, and sometimes do things just to see if I CAN. Running in cold weather using butane shortens the run time severely. I never timed the run time on a full bottle of propane, I always seem to have partials as I use my propane for other applications.
Pics: the Tender, can just see the delivery tube under the butane tank. It delivers enough steam to warm the water, but not enough to allow the steam bubbles to reach the surface, it condenses back into water about half way to the surface. The Loco, the red valve handle controls the steam to the tender, the banjo fitting just above it is where I am pulling off the steam. It is barely cracked and so low pressure that a rubber tube just slides on to the brass pipe on the tender.
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