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Discussion Starter #1
While I was doing the c-16/bug mauler bash (see the model making forum) the polarity marks came off the wiring for the connector plug on the tender. Only 2 pin, not a big deal, it's either right, or a dead short. Still I thought I'd query Aristo tech support, since none of their online drawings show it. Simple question, simple answer, right?


WRONG! A fellow named Navin responded (after 3 or so days) to tell me that I HAVE to send the tender AND loco in "for repairs" instead. to quote the kiddies "Like WTF?". I sent him a polite response outlining why this was not an acceptable solution, and...... no reply.




Is this their usual way of dealing with customer questions? Why bother even HAVING tech support if it is. Wanting someone to pay a bunch of freight and risking damage to a one off custom piece (and maybe having them send you a "stock replacement" in return) for a 2 minute soldering job is beyond stupid, it's arrogant.
 

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I'm surprised you even got a response. I left them a message about a smoke unit issue and never got a call back. I've contacted LGB, Accucraft, Bachmann and Aristo about issues in the past. Aristo is the worst experience I've had by far. Accucraft was excellent, LGB was very good, Bachmann was good, Aristo was horrible.
 

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Aristo tech support is a bit of an oxymoron as far as I'm concerned. I suspect they can't talk you through a repair when it comes to wiring because there is a history of inconsistent wiring colours. I had a dealer who has had lots of Aristo's apart tell me it is not unusual to see locos with all pink or all orange wiring--if they run out of one colour, they finish with whatever they've got onhand. Nice.

Keith
 

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Navin is the nicest guy there, and works hard. He must also follow company policy.

There is very little documentation on Aristo wiring, and as Keith points out, the wiring is the "color of the week" club.

Their best shot at making you happy, with the above limitations, is to send the loco back.

Electrical problems are not their strong suit, but be nice to Navin, he's a gem in terms of taking care of you.

(I would have likewise been disappointed in the response, do not get me wrong).

Regards, Greg
 

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First of all, Mik, let me say that if I had a response like you did from Navin I would feel EXACTLY the same way you feel! It does surprise me though, as I have had phenomenal good fortune with all of my service conversations with Aristo. In my personal experience, they have demonstrated some of the best customer service I have ever experienced. I am sorry you had such a bad experience, and as I said before, I don't blame you feeling the way you do at all!
Ed
 

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My father contacted them once on an Aristo TE question, and he realized into the call, whomever he was speaking to knew less about it than he did.
 

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As long as you don't ask them anything about electricity, they seem to do just fine . . . .
 

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Discussion Starter #10
I determined the correct answer myself, 30 seconds with an ohm meter and 2 minutes to solder the wires. If there was no consistency on wiring the plug, that's ALL he had to say. This will probably cost them any future purchases from me simply because I couldn't get a straight answer.... I guess maybe they have more than they need?
 

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The only thing I can think is that they have to assume that their customer base does not understand positive/negative and what an ohm meter is? They are selling to a range from noobs to master model railroaders afterall.....
 

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As Greg said, Navin is the nicest guy you ever want to meet and would go way out of his way to help anyone. The guy probably gets 50 calls a day plus who know how many e-mails. He tries to satify everyones questions. Now this mite seem to be a stupid question, but if you are smart enough to figure it out yourself in 30 seconds, didn't take longer to contact Navin about it, than just fixing it ?
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Posted By Santafe 2343 on 01/16/2009 9:43 PM
As Greg said, Navin is the nicest guy you ever want to meet and would go way out of his way to help anyone. The guy probably gets 50 calls a day plus who know how many e-mails. He tries to satify everyones questions. Now this mite seem to be a stupid question, but if you are smart enough to figure it out yourself in 30 seconds, didn't take longer to contact Navin about it, than just fixing it ?



I simply figured I would ask first. Why? BECAUSE IT WASN'T SHOWN ON ANY OF THEIR PUBLISHED PAGES... A basic wiring diagram isn't super secret proprietary information, it's one of several things that should be available to people who own these units. If I can get one for a Farmall H, or a '56 Chevy, or an AM transistor radio, or even an AC Lionel, then why not from Aristocraft?

Yes, this one was easy, only two wires, but what if it had been like one of B'mann's infamous super sockets? "send it in for repairs" does NOT answer the question asked. And THAT my friend is the problem (not even answering the follow up email was a bit of an insult as well). Several people have mentioned to me that Aristo often doesn't follow their OWN diagrams... this means that they EXIST, so why not publish them instead of assuming your customers are too stupid to understand them? Perhaps afraid they'll know more than the tech people? If it is insurance related BS then why not say that either? Answering a simple question is customer service 101.

It's been pointed out that Navin can't come out and say any of the above without risking his job, fine. Then that's just one more reason not to buy from them.
 

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The Aristo factory seems to relegate assembly practices to a lost art status when certain products have long time spans between production runs.

An example is the inconsistent wiring hookups (not just the colors used) that I noticed on the Heavyweight passenger cars trucks.
Since the Aristo factory has been moved, this will likely result in more upheaval, and I suspect the practice will not get any better for a long time to come.



I wrote about it over a year ago with the wiring described more toward the end of the topic:
"Aristo HW Pass. 3 axle trucks"
Greg has hosted this for me on his web site at the below link:
http://www.elmassian.com/trains-mainmenu-27/ted-doskaris-vignettes-mainmenu-157/aristo-hw-pass-3-axle-trucks-mainmenu-174

-Ted
 

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On the couple of occasions that I have telephone Navin from the UK his advice and help has been commendable. I have five Aristo locos and nearly thirty items of their rolling stock. I have have not had any issues with any of it but then I don't take any of it apart - I just run it.
 

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Like I said on another post.

TOO BAD ARISTO DIDN'T HIRE JACK (buckso), looks like they could use him, on their TEAM.


I hope he can help Bachmann, that guy ELMER in the service department is an IDIOT.
 

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Gentlmen I understand Niven's plot in life I feel for him.

Not everyone can do phone service. Out of 19 service guys west of the rockies only 4 can do phone service. I am the only one in the United states that can do both electrical and Mechinical.

Some people just dont know how to explain things on the phone. It takes a lot of pacients with customers.


I have been fixing printing presses since 1985

There are times when you just have to say GET SOME THERE TO FIX IT It can't be done over the phone. ( Some of it has to do with changes between serial numbers. Due mods I cant tell what to do. Much like the wire color Some has to do with independants who have been in the wire harness and moved wires around.)


There are some who think I walk on water. They think they can call me put thier cell phone on the press and I say HEAL and the press will run.

Then there are those who think I COULD NOT POUR PEE OUT OF A COWBOY BOOT IF THE INSTRUCTIONS WERE ON THE HEEL. They think my sister was a only child.

I have seen my picture on walls with votive candles and fresh flowers every day. Then I have also seen it on the DART BOARD in the lunch room.

There is no happy medium
 

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Posted By John J on 01/17/2009 4:55 AM
Gentlmen I understand Niven's plot in life I feel for him.

Not everyone can do phone service. Out of 19 service guys west of the rockies only 4 can do phone service. I am the only one in the United states that can do both electrical and Mechinical.

Some people just dont know how to explain things on the phone. It takes a lot of pacients with customers.


I have been fixing printing presses since 1985

There are times when you just have to say GET SOME THERE TO FIX IT It can't be done over the phone. ( Some of it has to do with changes between serial numbers. Due mods I cant tell what to do. Much like the wire color Some has to do with independants who have been in the wire harness and moved wires around.)


There are some who think I walk on water. They think they can call me put thier cell phone on the press and I say HEAL and the press will run.

Then there are those who think I COULD NOT POUR PEE OUT OF A COWBOY BOOT IF THE INSTRUCTIONS WERE ON THE HEEL. They think my sister was a only child.

I have seen my picture on walls with votive candles and fresh flowers every day. Then I have also seen it on the DART BOARD in the lunch room.

There is no happy medium




Ain't troubleshooting over the phone a wonderful experience, with an emphasis on the "wonder" part... I wonder how the customer found the phone to call me, I wonder how he was able to dial it, I wonder how come he is still employed... Lots of "wonder" involved.

By the way... there is such a thing as a happy medium!!!

A happy medium is one that got paid BEFORE the seance started.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
guys, the original problem was TWO wires. I explained WHATI was doing, WHAT the problem was, and WHY I wanted to know. In the second email (to which I never received a response), I explained WHY sending it back wasn't an option. If Lewis Polk has a problem admitting there is sometimes a problem with factory installed wiring, What do you really think the response would be when they recieved a gutted BACHMANN tender riding on ARISTO trucks?

As to whether YOU can pour pee out of a boot, I can't answer that, BUT when you have trouble understanding the problem, perhaps rereading the question is a good first step.
 
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