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For those of you who hate Colorado narrow gauge, here's a different outside fram Connie that very much resembles the Bachmann. The prototype is at the Los Angeles County Fairgrounds and looks a bit stumpier than the Cuban engine Lee Riley used to design the Bachmann loco. Of interest to those who hate the Walshearts or whatever valvegear is this rather simple crosshead, which shouldn't be too hard to model of you are David Fletcher.:D


Sorry the photos aren't better, but they're scanned from color prints taken on a flat-lighted day. I Photo Shopped 'em but there's only so much you can do ("I'm given 'er all she's gawt, Kep-tin!").
 

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Hey Joe, here's a cleaned up version of your picture for you - right click and save directly from here - I've used your same file name so you can just replace it wherever its stored without having to change the URL. If you swap yours out, I'll delete this one from the forum.

 

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The real prototype for the Connie is in Virginia City, MT.  On our family vacation we stopped by to see it...and hoped to ride behind it on the Alder Gulch RR.  But...the fire danger was too high and operations for the whole summer had been suspended.  The engine looks fully restored and in pristine shape.











More info at http://www.virginiacity.com/steam.htm
 

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I myself have been wanting to bash a Connie into a more eastern looking locomotive, as K Strong has done with his.   Who are the loco builders on the above two?   I've searched to see if American locomotive works, Cooke works    AKA  ALCO ever built a narrow gauge Connie.  I ask this specifically because my prototype road researched upgrading to a connie but never did but all previous 2-6-0 Moguls came from ALCO Cooke works.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Hoo, boy! Here we go!


The Connie in Pomona was built by Burnham, Williams &  Co. for the Arizona Copper Co. in March 1903. She then was sold to the Morenici Southern Rwy, then to United States Potash, which was her last gig.In 1956 she was acquired by the Southern California chapter of the Railway & Locomotive Historical Society, ,which sent her to Pomona.


Adler Gulch Baldwin number 12, according to their website (I think) came from Mexico. But while Lee Riley might have glommed a few details off of her, the smokebox is much longer than the Bachmann Connie's. We need to check with Curmudgeon (he ain't locked out is he, Dwight?;)) or with someone who knows how the Bachmann Connie story evolved. I heard Lee Riley was originally inspired by a Connie in Cuba, which he started studying. But access got tough (or so I heard), so in mid-project he had to find another detail source. Hence, Adler Gulch number 12.


IMHO, a loco that resembles the Bachmann more closely is found in "The Crystal River Pictorial," which I bought just to see her picture. The caption reads,  "The first engine purchased by Crystal River Ry was no. 11 built to three-foot gauge in 1893. For a period of several months the little 0-8-0 served the railway during construction of the mainline. She was returned to Baldwin in 1894 where a pilot truck was added and she was then sold to a new owner. Pictured on a transfer table, she had been freshly lettered for a South American line. She reportedly rests in Cuba waiting for clearance to the United States for her latest owner (who recently died)." BTW, in the photo, the tender is lettered, "Mt Airy & Eastern Ry. Co. Sure does look like the Bachmann Connie to me.


Of course, we could ask Lee Riley, but that would be too easy.:D


Oh, Paul (is it?) feel free to substitute your fixed photo. I'd do it but I don't  know how./DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/crazy.gif


 
 

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Nice,
Looks a lot like the ones used on the OR&L line. I'm bashing one of those myself :)
 

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I have builder's photos of a bunch of outside-frame 2-8-0s built by Alco.

And today I got a Baldwin builder's photo of an outside-frame 4-8-0 sent to Colombia. It's a gorgeous beast!
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Vance,


What do they look like--the Alcos? And is anyone close enough in size, shape, etc, so it would make an easy bash? Seems like every time I talk to a guy who does serious loco bashing, the first word I seem to hear is "new boiler." I just wanna do something a bit more than just moving the headlight, sand dome and shortening the pilot deck, which is probably what I should stick to until I figure out what I'm doin.'/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/tongue.gif
 

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Discussion Starter #12
OK, Muchachos and muchachettes, here's what the Bach-man wrote (hope I don't get arrested and sent to computer jail for cutting and pasting):


 
Dear  Joe,
It's basically a Baldwin catalog model similar to both the locos mentioned, but identical to neither. The great thing about the Baldwin catalog is that credible locos can be extrapolated from the information available there.
Have fun!
the Bach-man
 

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Coincidently I am in the final throws of finishing a Connie very similar to the top picture, with a stephensons gear arrangement. Unlike my other Connie bashes it remains 1.20.3. As soon as the Decals are done I'll post the pics shortly.
 

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Coincidently I am in the final throws of finishing a Connie very similar to the top picture, with a stephensons gear arrangement. Unlike my other Connie bashes it remains 1.20.3. As soon as the Decals are done I'll post the pics shortly.
 

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The Bachmann 2-8-0 is based on FCM #12 at several stages in its life at once. Older photos of it at Edaville will show you the short smokebox and the wide Mexican pilot, and the centered headlight, while later photos at Alder Gulch will show you the tall smokestack (though I think the taper is something Bachmann made up) and the extended smokebox. The model has both a seperate exhaust and muffler for the air compressor, and an exhaust line into the smokebox, representing two different periods in the locomotive's history at once. The prototype sat at Edaville for nearly 30 years after Edaville had acquired it... there are stories that they planned to regauge it to 24 inches and run it, but that didn't work.... and was the "dreaming spot" for many young would-be engineers, sitting right by the home signal where the working train stopped. When Edaville fell on hard times in the 90's, it went to the Lake Superior and Escanaba in Michigan, where it was restored to "better than new" condition, and traded for other equipment to the Alder Gulch, where it is today. Part of that restoration involved the smokebox extention, the new pilot, and raising the headlight, as well as the new tall stack. Here's a photo just post-restoration in Michigan: http://www.elsrr.com/railfan images/agloco.jpg I've looked extensively for an online photo of the pre-restoration version to link, but can't locate one.

So really while the locomotive has been "widened" to 36" gauge for 1:20.3, it is otherwise supposed to be a representation of a real prototype, right down to the Baker valve gear, even if it's a collage of several snapshots of that particular prototype.

Matthew (OV)
 

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Posted By FH&PB on 01/05/2008 11:36 PM
I have builder's photos of a bunch of outside-frame 2-8-0s built by Alco.

Vance, Any chance you could post a few? or e-mail me some?
 

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Matt, I have six or eight, but only have a scan of one, which is
here.

I'm pretty backed up right now between work and getting ready for a trip next week, so please ping me the week after Diamondhead and I'll try to scan some of the others.
 

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Looking at that scan, I'd say if you wanted to model an Alco you might as well scratch build. Everything is different from the frame up.


As for the Cuban connies,  they have 3 domes instead of 2 as on the Bachmann.  That's the major difference that I note on the pics that I have.  The 3rd dome is stuffed between the steam dome and the cab...a rather tight fit.  It appears also that this locomotive came in both inside and outside frame.  I also have a couple pics of the inside frame ones.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Vance, that shot of Number 3 looks pretty good. I notice she even has that Wall-shirt valve gear. But where do ya think the extra length comes from? The boiler? I am "down" with maybe moving the cab back, as has been done, but a new boiler? In the words of Count Floyd, "Hoo, really scary. kids!" /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/shocked.gif


BTW, it ain't easy trying to dream up some ideas for a bi-monthly column (Looking Back), is it? I know. I have written 104 (monthly) columns over 10 years and dread the time of the month (two minutes before deadline, usually) when I have to come up with something new./DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/sick.gif
 

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The Mexican FCI operated this Alco 2-8-0, built 1899. The loco now sits on a plinth at the Monument to the Revolution in downtown Mexico City. Do a search on line for many more photos of FCI #67.

I took these couple of photos (and many more) back in 1997.



 





 


Here's a link to a couple more photos from www.steamlocomotive.com


http://www.steamlocomotive.com/misc/images/fci67-1.html


http://www.steamlocomotive.com/misc/images/fci67-2.html


http://209.85.175.104/search?q=cache:-Nmk02u0YxEJ:www.steamlocomotive.com/lists/DIF.shtml+FCI+67+locomotive+alco&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=10&gl=au


Quite close in appearance to our slightly smaller Connie, but pretty similar.

Fletch.
 
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