[G-baby]

I guess I just don't understand why anyone involved in model railroading would want to run supposedly prototypical looking standard gauge equipment on a narrow gauge track !
I have not actually seen an operating G-scale railroad first hand, but have seen numerous videos of operating G railroads and the overswing of the equipment on the curves, to me, is laughable and toy-like, as toy like as my lionel oval set I had as a child. Don't get me wrong, the operation looks fine as long as the operation takes place in a straight line but when it comes to curves that is a different story.
I think I have probably angered just about all G-scalers with my comments, so I guess I will stay with HO scale and something that is standardized.
/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/blink.gif

 

[Reylroad]

Hopefully I'll try to answer your question. First off "G" is a scale representing meter gauge on Gauge 1 track. It was introduced by LGB due to the fact that the majority of European narrow gauge is meter gauge. However, way back in the 1880s or so, Marklin came up with the different gauges(i.e. Gauge 1,2,3, etc.)

For those of us modelling American railroads and using Gauge 1 track(45mm or so between the railheads) the only true scales would be 15mm/foot(1:20.32) to represent 36" narrow gauge or 3/8th scale to represent standard gauge. Furthermore, if one chooses to model two foot gauge railroads the scale would be 7/8th scale(1:13.7) running on Gauge 1 track.

I have seen many, many garden and indoor large scale railroads. Several have broad, sweeping curves that look prototypically correct with either narrow or standard gauge models. Also, if a modeller wants his track to look more prototypically correct, there is available Code 250, 215, and 197 size rail.

Finally, the biggest confusion for those coming from the smaller scales is the misunderstanding that G-scale is more than it actually is "A SCALE AND ONLY A SCALE". More correctly, your question should be "X" number of scales on GAUGE 1 track.

Tom Rey

 

[East Broad Top]

I guess I just don't understand why anyone involved in model railroading would want to run supposedly prototypical looking standard gauge equipment on a narrow gauge track ! I have not actually seen an operating G-scale railroad first hand, but have seen numerous videos of operating G railroads and the overswing of the equipment on the curves, to me, is laughable and toy-like, as toy like as my lionel oval set I had as a child. Don't get me wrong, the operation looks fine as long as the operation takes place in a straight line but when it comes to curves that is a different story.



(Emphasis mine)

Therein lies your trouble. You really owe it to yourself to get involved with the local garden railroad scene to get the whole picture. The large scale hobby encompasses both the scale enthusiast and the "Lionel" enthusiasts' interests. There really is "something for everyone" in this scale, and certainly no "one-size-fits-all" way of doing things. The "scale" hobbyists are as active in large scale as they are in any of the smaller scales. The difference is that in the small scales, those interests are somewhat segregated (O27 and the tinplate crowd as opposed to "serious" O scalers, etc) where in large scale, we all hang out in the same clubhouse. (And trust me--there are just as many "Plasticville" HO railroads as good scale ones, you just never see them.)

So, rather than brushing off large scale as oversized Lionel, I invite you to poke around here a bit longer, visit some of the members' web sites, and see how "the other half" enjoys the hobby. I'll start by offering a video tour of my railroad to get you going. Also, feel free to visit my web site. (click the banner below) Note that the railroad shown in the "Gallery" pages has been replaced by the much larger one shown in the video. Yes, the lack of a clearly identified (by letter) scale is a bit confusing at first, but for the many of us who have settled on one scale within those offered, the waters are easy to navigate.

Later,

K

 

[jimtyp]

You may have misunderstood some things. First, G scale track is not narrow gauge. There is one standard in G scale, and this is the rail width, which is 45mm rail-to-rail. If you want to model Narrow Gauge, which ran on rails that were 3 feet rail-to-rail, then by doing the math 1:20.3 is the accurate scale. If you want to use the same 45mm to model standard gauge, then you do the same translation but come up with 1:32 as the correct scale because of the wider spacing of the rails. I believe that 1:22.5 is correct for the European rails. So basically everything is based on the one standard of 45mm rail spacing. Now, even though all G scale is 45mm rails, there are differences in tie spacing. The wider spacing is generally used for Narrow Gauge, Euro and branch lines which didn't have as heavy equipment, this is called Euro style tie spacing. The standard gauge uses the same 45mm but has ties spaced closer together, called USA style.   There is also rail code, which in the prototypes determines how heavy equipment you can run over the rail.  332 is popular outside because it holds up well, but is rather large for prototypes; 250 and 215 are also popular sizes.

So what about 1:29 and 1:24? Well, I believe these are grouped into G as well because they are close. Some didn't like engines as small as 1:32 so 1:29 made them look a little bigger and 1:24 is convenient because it is 1/2" to 1 foot scale.

Now things get a bit strange if you mix and match scales on the same 45mm track. Some do, like me, some don't who are more interested in only NG, SG or Euro. The strangest thing is how things are reversed if you do mix the scales on the same rail. As now Narrow Gague looks bigger than the Standard Gauge or Euro. As far as G trains looking toy like on sharp curves, I think you would find a lot of folks that agree with you. However, it's because G scale is so large it takes a lot of space to run a train like the prototypes, so folks like myself do with what we have.

There are a lot of folks that had HO previously that really enjoy G scale, you might want to give it a go. The main advantage of G, I believe, is it is designed to run outdoors. Another advantage is if you are a fine scale modeler is you can actually see the details without a magnifying glass or holding it up to your nose.

You are asking questions to learn, that is good, keep asking.  We know G scale can be confusing at first.

 

[ralphbrades]

Well if it simply the scale and standards that are bothering you -then could I suggest that you opt out of "G" and try something that has no standards -other than the one you make up... To whit you could try the popular 16mm scales or 7/8ths scales. This frees you to run your equipment on 32mm, 45mm or 63.5mm track (G0, G1 and G3). I build narrow gauge and standard gauge locomotives that function as the originals did. The std gauge locos I have build are actually smaller than the narrow gauge locos -which is actually true in real life as well....

regards

ralph

 

[Mik]

Posted By G-baby on 03/25/2008 9:26 AM
I guess I just don't understand why anyone involved in model railroading would want to run supposedly prototypical looking standard gauge equipment on a narrow gauge track !
I have not actually seen an operating G-scale railroad first hand, but have seen numerous videos of operating G railroads and the overswing of the equipment on the curves, to me, is laughable and toy-like, as toy like as my lionel oval set I had as a child. Don't get me wrong, the operation looks fine as long as the operation takes place in a straight line but when it comes to curves that is a different story.
I think I have probably angered just about all G-scalers with my comments, so I guess I will stay with HO scale and something that is standardized.
/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/blink.gif


There are two solutions to the curve problem you obect to.... 1. there is nothing to stop you from buying a rail bender to make broad sweeping curves...if you have the acreage. or 2. Run smaller equipment..... I have 4 wheel cars and 0-4-0s and 2-4-0s for that reason.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but 97%+ of the layouts in your vaunted HO STILL have rediculously sharp curves and things too close together when compared to real railroads. It's a question of reasonable use of space.

OTOH As mentioned above you don't need a magnifying glass to see large scale details, you can enjoy the sunshine while you run your trains rather than be trapped in a cramped smelly basement, stuff doesn't derail NEAR as easy in large scale, and MOST large scalers are friendly helpful guys who will support you even if they don't model the same way you do...ie they aren't anywhere NEAR as A-R as many guys in HO. /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/whistling.gif

Your hobby, you pays your money and you makes your choice.

 

[vsmith]

Aren't 75% of all HO layouts catagoriezed under the "4'x8' Plywood Pacific" catagory?/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/whistling.gif


This guy obviously has never seen any pics of Marty's layout now has he, even in pictures it truely awesome./DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/laugh.gif

 

[Mik]

Maybe I'm slow on the uptake, but I've begun to wonder if maybe this fellow's questions aren't somewhat "loaded" and perhaps should simply be marked with this:

 

[cephius]

Great responce everybody. I agree with Mik. G-baby doesn't care!

 

[SandyR]

I came to G 'scale' from HOn30. What I like about G is that it is a wide-open, do-whatever-you-want affair. I run 0-4-0ST steamers and small industrial cars, and they look just fine on the fairly sharp curves on my small garden railroad. It's been in existence for 15 years now, and I'm not tired of it yet! I've heard G 'scale' referred to as Gummi scale, since things may be any number of actual scales. I just go by whatever will give an artistic impression of a railroad. And if other people's railroads aren't 'to scale' it doesn't bother me one bit. We're all in this for fun, after all!
SandyR

 

[pete]

I agree with mik .You throw a line out and see how many fish you get to bite!!!!!

 

[vsmith]

I've never seen Marty Cozads Table Creek in person but I've seen enough photos and videos to know its about as far away from Lionel as the Earth is from Pluto, and its not hard to find similar layouts of Youtube. 

 

[Pete Thornton]

Posted By G-baby on 03/25/2008 9:26 AM
I guess I just don't understand why anyone involved in model railroading would want to run supposedly prototypical looking standard gauge equipment on a narrow gauge track !
I have not actually seen an operating G-scale railroad first hand, but have seen numerous videos of operating G railroads and the overswing of the equipment on the curves, to me, is laughable and toy-like, as toy like as my lionel oval set I had as a child. Don't get me wrong, the operation looks fine as long as the operation takes place in a straight line but when it comes to curves that is a different story.
I think I have probably angered just about all G-scalers with my comments, so I guess I will stay with HO scale and something that is standardized.
/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/blink.gif


I don't know why someone would come to a forum like this without doing a little bit of homework first.

Narrow Gauge Track:

Standard Gauge Track:

Both 45mm gauge. (Pics from Accucraft's website, which has them backwards.)

The next is the photo I use in my sig block - note the lack of overhang on my 10' radius (20' diameter) curves.  Note also that the track has tiny standard gauge ties, although that is a narrow gauge train.  I did half the layout 1/32nd and the other half 1/22.5 so when I run 1/32nd trains I watch them from one side of the garden, and when I run naroow gauge I watch from the other.

 

[Semper Vaporo]

Maybe this was the 1st step in the "homework"?

 

[Mik]

Part of the reason I got OUT of the smaller scales was the "This model is completely accurate for this locomotive on June 7, 1956 @ 6:45PM down to the small scratch on the step from the engineer's lunchbox when he left at 5:37PM" guys. I don't begrudge them their fun, but hated the "looking down their nose" part when I didn't play with MY toys THEIR way.

 

[vsmith]

Posted By Mik on 03/25/2008 3:36 PM
Part of the reason I got OUT of the smaller scales was the "This model is completely accurate for this locomotive on June 7, 1956 @ 6:45PM down to the small scratch on the step from the engineer's lunchbox when he left at 5:37PM" guys. I don't begrudge them their fun, but hated the "looking down their nose" part when I didn't play with MY toys THEIR way.


Hey Mik, its not only in HO,  I also used to do model aircraft and such, I once saw 2 guys almost come to physical blows because both showed up a  meet and had modeled the exact same particular F-14 aircraft in the same scale, and then got into each others faces over who's was more accurate. /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/crazy.gif 

Thats about the time I got a whole lot less serious about this kinda stuff./DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/tongue.gif

 

[Torby]

hehe /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/tongue.gif

I usually avoid the scale arguments, but let me point out a benefit of the way we have multiple scales:

I gather (collect would be too strong a word) standard gauge trains at 1:29. I have a good friend who models a narrow gauge shortline. In another scale, my equipment wouldn't run on his layout as his gauge would be narrower. Since we're both 45mm "G," my equipment runs fine on his layout and even looks reasonable next to his equipment. Ok, my Mallet might have been a little out of place, but it had no trouble switching cars and pulling trains anywhere we wanted it to go.

One thing you'll find in G is you're a lot more aware of scale. A small scale (HO) friend used to tease me, "G is the scale for people who don't care anything about scale." One day, he dropped by the asylum to show me some new box cars he just bought. Later, I was working and he was fiddeling with a ruler. Then he asked to borrow my calculator. I had to show him how to use a "reverse polish" calculator (it really is a computing term!). Soon, he picked up one of my 40ft box cars.

"Hey!" David complained. "How come your 40ft box car is 40 ft long, but mine is only 35?"/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/cry.gif

He had just always assumed that since it was HO, it was reliably 1/87.

 

[MarkLewis]

I find the replies to this question that (a) assume he's a rivet counter or anything other than a beginner, and (b) castigate him for not doing hius "homework" are way out of place here. This is a beginner's forum, not a forum for waving your personal red flags. You don't like the question? Don't answer it?

Mark

 

[toddalin]

You mean that there are only five?  I count at least 6 and that's without getting into LGB's multi-scale American standard gauge diesels. /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/tongue.gif

Actually, there is really only one "G-scale" and that's LGB's 22.5:1 (not 24:1) that represents European meter gauge.  It's just the that 5+ other scales (that you are calling G scale) also run on "1-gauge" track.   However, being from the relm of H0, you equate scale and gauge and they need not be the same.  

 

[snowshoe]

Posted By East Broad Top on 03/25/2008 10:15 AM
I guess I just don't understand why anyone involved in model railroading would want to run supposedly prototypical looking standard gauge equipment on a narrow gauge track ! I have not actually seen an operating G-scale railroad first hand, but have seen numerous videos of operating G railroads and the overswing of the equipment on the curves, to me, is laughable and toy-like, as toy like as my lionel oval set I had as a child. Don't get me wrong, the operation looks fine as long as the operation takes place in a straight line but when it comes to curves that is a different story.



(Emphasis mine)

Therein lies your trouble. You really owe it to yourself to get involved with the local garden railroad scene to get the whole picture. The large scale hobby encompasses both the scale enthusiast and the "Lionel" enthusiasts' interests. There really is "something for everyone" in this scale, and certainly no "one-size-fits-all" way of doing things. The "scale" hobbyists are as active in large scale as they are in any of the smaller scales. The difference is that in the small scales, those interests are somewhat segregated (O27 and the tinplate crowd as opposed to "serious" O scalers, etc) where in large scale, we all hang out in the same clubhouse. (And trust me--there are just as many "Plasticville" HO railroads as good scale ones, you just never see them.)

So, rather than brushing off large scale as oversized Lionel, I invite you to poke around here a bit longer, visit some of the members' web sites, and see how "the other half" enjoys the hobby. I'll start by offering a video tour of my railroad to get you going. Also, feel free to visit my web site. (click the banner below) Note that the railroad shown in the "Gallery" pages has been replaced by the much larger one shown in the video. Yes, the lack of a clearly identified (by letter) scale is a bit confusing at first, but for the many of us who have settled on one scale within those offered, the waters are easy to navigate.

Later,

K

Great video.  I really like your layout as well.  One question though I went on your web site and it showes your layout in the front yard.  Is that the same one on the youtub vid or is it from the backyard layout you mentioned.  How come you never added a construction page for that one.  Just intrested in seeing the steps you took in creating the layout on the video.