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Discussion Starter #1
Purchased this combination in hopes of configuring my Aristo Wide Radius switch(es) with a little remote control action.

NOT


It appears (unless I'm missing something) that although the 27Mhz TE, links up to the CRE55475 Switch Receiver just fine, the Slow Motion Switch machine(s) ART-11298, are not designed to play with that version of the Switch Receiver.


Yikes, I didn't see that one coming.....more money on the wrong side of the tracks (LOL).


The SMS Machine's limited documentation indicates that there's a remote option CRE54576 forthcoming early 2009. Anybody seen hide or hair of such an animal?


BTW: The Slow Motion Switch machines documentation suggests using a rubber cement for water proofing, if you're leaving it outdoors! Hmmmm aren't they designed to go otudoors?

Anyway, any suggestions on what brand of rubber cement works well and what doesn't?, Or if there are better products that will do the job?
 

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Yes, I can recommend a better product to do the job, the original switch machine that the Aristo is a poor copy of!

OK, I'm sure you did not want to hear that, but be careful... there's been several reports of the spring taking a permanent set after a train runs through the switch the wrong way.

Rubber cement for waterproofing, I've seen that recommendation, use silicon...

You might be able to use the other Accessory controller to move your switch machine, using a dpdt relay and run it off one of the outputs that stays on.

How many remote switches do you plan to have eventually?

Regards, Greg
 

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Posted By Greg Elmassian on 18 Jul 2009 09:15 PM
Yes, I can recommend a better product to do the job, the original switch machine that the Aristo is a poor copy of!

You mean the Boehler one?

Or is there another slow motion one?

BTW - Piko just started shipping their own switch motor (in Germany)

Similar to LGB but slightly larger. It will accept the LGB auxiliary switch contacts however.


Regards, Knut
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Posted By Greg Elmassian on 18 Jul 2009 09:15 PM
Yes, I can recommend a better product to do the job, the original switch machine that the Aristo is a poor copy of!

Hmmm... While that question was in ref to the rubber cement and not the switch machine, I'm certainly appreciative of the info that better switch machines are out there, and since I didn't know about any other switch machines, I consider myself partially learned on the subject. Is there a link with more info, I searched "The Google" lol, and didn't come up with much in the way of bohler (sp?) switch machines.



there's been several reports of the spring taking a permanent set after a train runs through the switch the wrong way.


"a permanent set" = getting stuck in one position? or if not please explain?

Rubber cement for waterproofing, I've seen that recommendation, use silicon...

Any particular brand recommendation?...that would be typically sold at a DIY store like, Home Depot or Lowes.


You might be able to use the other Accessory controller to move your switch machine, using a dpdt relay and run it off one of the outputs that stays on.

Ummm....that's an ideal! Thanks! Off I go searching for dpdt relays? Any recommendations?



How many remote switches do you plan to have eventually?

I have 4 switch machines now, and I don't see adding more 2 more max!


BTW: Thanks for the info

Stefan
 

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The problem you will have right off is that the Aristo accessory decoders only really work on track 1 and freq 1. So, even if you got all 5 outputs to work, that would be your limit.

If you were only using 1 switch machine, I would tell you to get the other accessory unit, use the latching output, hook it to a small $2 DPDT relay, and then feed the relay with 12v, and have the relay send the reversing DC that the motors need. Simple. I would select other switch motors that take pulsed output, or find latching relays.

Still, you will be limited to 5 switch machines.

Sorry, Aristo has known about this for almost 10 years and never fixed the hardware. Too bad, because with 10 tracks and 10 frequencies, you could control up to 500 devices if only the hardware worked on the other frequencies and tracks. No chance of that happening now... with the huge success of the new system, I'm sure the 27 MHz stuff is destined obsolescence.

Regards, Greg
 

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You can use the decoder to pulse a 555 chip that will hold a relay closed as long as you need for the slow motion motor to complete its throw.

I do this with two of the regular LGB turn-out motors and a latching relay on my "leap frog" to pulse them for ~1.5 seconds rather than just relying on the time that the magnet is directly over the reed switch to pulse them.

Once the 555 chip "glitches" are worked out (if encountered), this is far more reliable than just using the reed switch and relying on it to pulse the motors which may not be long enough to complete the throw if the trains are moving too fast.

The 555 circuits will cost ~$5-10 to make.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Greg, acknowledged, on the 5 switch machine limit!

"other accessory unit" ??? meaning the CRE55474 Remote Accessory Unit ??? I already have the CRE55475 Switch Accessory Unit.

$2 dpdt relays???, where are you purchasing relays that inexpensive. Cheapest one I found that I can get my hands on, is at Radio Shack, for $8.49 ea., and I didn't do much better when searching the web.


http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2049722&tab=accessories

I do agree with the advent of the TE Revolution system, the chances of me seeing the remote solution for the slow motion switch machines, planned to be relaeased in early 2009, is probably nil, hence the effort to find an alternate solution.

Just curious Greg, alhtough I think I remember reading it on your site, but what method are you using to remote switch your switches? And what switch machines are you using?
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Todd, thanks for the info on the 555 chip. I'm completely clueless about it's use though, so more research is in order. Seems pretty common though based on a cursory search on "555 chip"
 

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Posted By sldozier on 19 Jul 2009 12:33 PM
$2 dpdt relays???, where are you purchasing relays that inexpensive. Cheapest one I found that I can get my hands on, is at Radio Shack, for $8.49 ea., and I didn't do much better when searching the web.




Radio Shack is probably the most expensive place to buy something like that.

Try All Electronics - they have all sorts of DPDT relays different coil voltages for $1.- to $2.- each.

http://www.allelectronics.com//index.php?page=category&id=500

And I think a 555 circuit is overkill for what you need.

The slow motion switch machine should really shut itself off when it has completed it's travel, but if you need to provide that externally, you can always add a simple two component RC circuit to the relay to make it slow release.


Knut
 

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What are you driving the relay with?
You picked a relay with a relatively low coil resistance. That will draw more current from the driver.
That relay needs the extra power because it's moving 5 amp contacts which is overkill to drive a switch machine.

Maybe you posted this earlier - I'm getting in the middle of the thread her.
But before you order anything, you need to know what is driving the relay coil and what you want to switch with the contacts.
Relay timing which is the other critical parameter, is irrelevant for your application, but you need to know the currents and voltages involved at the input and output of the relay.

And yes - if you pick the right relay, there are many model train applications where you can use them.

Knut
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Right now I'm using a MRC Model 9000 power supply with throttle set to produce 12VDC out. It's my intention to use a 12VDC wall transformer that I can plug into AC power and wire up to power at least 4 relays if I can get something engineered that will work. All I'm trying to do is get the 4 Slow Motion Switch machines I purchased, installed and working with the Aristo 27Mhz TE, for a little remote switching action, as I run DC track powered trains.

You're posting right on time, not to worry, and I do appreciate the help!


In addition to the 5 amp the only other 12VDC DPDT relay I saw was this 2A version:


http://www.allelectronics.com/make-a-store/item/RLY-622/12-VDC-DPDT-DIP-RELAY/-/1.html
 

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Yes, but what are you using to control the relay?

It sounded from earlier posts that it was some sort of Aristocraft receiver so you need to know the voltage and current the output can handle.
That in turn determines the coil resistance and voltage of the relay.

On the output of the relay you will be driving this switch machine - again you need to know the current and voltage that device requires.
Nice thing about relays is that the input and output are totally isolated.

But if both the switch machine and the receiver are from Aristocraft, why do you need a relay at all?
I would expect these product to work together since they are from the same manufacturer.
 

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Posted By krs on 19 Jul 2009 12:57 PM

And I think a 555 circuit is overkill for what you need.

The slow motion switch machine should really shut itself off when it has completed it's travel, but if you need to provide that externally, you can always add a simple two component RC circuit to the relay to make it slow release.


Knut



Been there, tried that. Takes an awful big "C" to hold even a small relay open for more than a second.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Posted By krs on 19 Jul 2009 03:43 PM
Yes, but what are you using to control the relay?

But if both the switch machine and the receiver are from Aristocraft, why do you need a relay at all?
I would expect these product to work together since they are from the same manufacturer.

Sorry..... I'm using Aristo Craft 27Mhz Train Engineer R/C system with Aristo's Switch Accessory Unit (CRE55475). They don't work together, that why I'm trying to find an alternate solution. The Switch Accessory unit is apparently only designed to work with the switch machines that come premounted on Aristo's 4ft diameter remote switches, and not the Slow Motion Switch machine, which I bought to remotely operate Aristo's 10 ft diameter Wide Radius switches. It was suggested here earlier that I could get the combo working by using 12VDC relays. The Slow Motion Switch machines are come with a DPDT switch, which when wired to 12VDC and connected to the Slow Motion Switch machine works as advertsied. I'm trying to R/C that operation using the 27Mhz TE remote, rather that seperately building a box to hold the DPDT switches, and having to operate them manually.
 

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The 555 circuit is not tough, there's lots of examples on the web, but it's a bit of fooling around if you haven't done circuits before.

The problem with the relay, only the other accessory controller has an output that will keep the relay set...

See my site for the current handling, and description of the units. George Schreyer also has lots of information on the 27 MHz controllers.

http://www.elmassian.com/trains-mai.../aristo-rc

Regards, Greg
 

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Posted By toddalin on 19 Jul 2009 03:52 PM

Been there, tried that. Takes an awful big "C" to hold even a small relay open for more than a second.




True - but why more than a second?
I was thinking of your application and the LGB switch motors are perfectly happy if you power then a couple of hundred milliseconds.

The old ones actually have a tendency to burn out if you apply 24 VDC for too long a period - LGB recommends you power then for less than a second at 24 VDC.


Those switch motors are really designed for half-wave rectified AC.

Back to Aristocraft - so I assume you need to power their slow motion switch machine with your control signal for the whole time it's actually throwing the switch?
What kind of crap is that? Normally one provides a pulse to activate the turnout and the circuitry in the turnout motor looks after the rest.

I better read up on this Aristo product.

Knut
 

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Posted By krs on 19 Jul 2009 05:32 PM
Posted By toddalin on 19 Jul 2009 03:52 PM

Been there, tried that. Takes an awful big "C" to hold even a small relay open for more than a second.




True - but why more than a second?
I was thinking of your application and the LGB switch motors are perfectly happy if you power then a couple of hundred milliseconds.

The old ones actually have a tendency to burn out if you apply 24 VDC for too long a period - LGB recommends you power then for less than a second at 24 VDC.


Those switch motors are really designed for half-wave rectified AC.

Back to Aristocraft - so I assume you need to power their slow motion switch machine with your control signal for the whole time it's actually throwing the switch?
What kind of crap is that? Normally one provides a pulse to activate the turnout and the circuitry in the turnout motor looks after the rest.

I better read up on this Aristo product.

Knut



I was addressing his problem with the slow-mo turnout motors and he certainly needs more than a second. Your simple RC may not accomodate his requirements necessitating the use of the 555 chip circuit that I noted.

In my case, I don't power them with 24 volts dc. I hit them (two turn-outs and the latching relay) with half wave, ~22 volts that quickly bleeds down to ~11 volts.

Sure I could have selected a shorter time, but the time over the reed switch is too short to be reliable (in my mind) requiring the 555 chip/circuit, so 250 ms or 1.5 sec makes no difference really and either way, it's the same circuit with a different value resistor. 1.5 seconds is way to short to damage an LGB turnout motor at those voltages. It works fine so there is no need messing with it.
 

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Greg -

OK, the Aristo accessory decoder outputs are clear - designed specifically for the two-wire "LGB-type" turnout motors where one reverses polarity rather than the more traditional H0 3-wire turn outs.
I remember there was a discussion how to hook the Boehler turnout motors to that type of control - I would have to go back to refresh my memory but I don't think one needed any external circuitry.
Is the Aristo slow motion machine not the same in that respect as the Boehler one? Any schematics and technical info on that?
The way George commenst on this very briefly is that you not only need to keep power applied while the turnout is moving, but you also need two relays per turnout.

This is becoming a bit messy especially for people who are not comfortable with electronics.

Knut
 
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