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Question for those who have 1/32 MDC and MTH products. I believe that most folks who purchase these MFG trains do it becuase of scale fidelity of thier trains to G scale track. Do you feel that the level of detail of MDC and MTH is high enough considering that 1/32 is what some would call "Museum" scale and for what you must pay for the products across the scale. It has seamed that 1/29 scale offers better value in detail per dollar on most AML, USA and Aristo currently. Obviously the brass lines have great detail, but you pay such a premium for Brass, especially in rolling stock. It seams that even Accucraft who mfg's in both scales demands a premium just for 1/32. Anyone else notice this? Is this an advantage for 1/29 scale and why?
 

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I have several MDC 1:32-scale cars for rolling stock behind my Aster Mikes and I have no problem with the level of detail on the cars. I usually am not paying any attention to the cars anyway because my interest is in the steam locomotive operation. The cars are to add resistance to movement so the engine will "work".

I have one REA/Aristocraft 1:29-scale car and the level of detail is about the same as the MDC cars, but the gross error in scale was quite disturbing... even though I say I don't pay any attention to the cars behind the engine (that is how bad it is TO "ME").

I paid less for the MDC cars than the REA/Aristocraft, too, but I bought the REA/Aristocraft at the local hobby shop and the MDC cars via the web in a clearance sale when San-Val was dumping them.

I think the price is lower for the 1:29 scale stuff simply because it is the larger market and they can manufacturer more at a time for a lower price and pass that savings on to the consumer.

As for whether I "want" detail... I think detail is really neat on a single car on display, but sort of useless in a long train that is in motion.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Semper, You make perfect sense and made me think of another angle. Live steam seams to dominate in 1/32 and not 1/29. Live steam is alot of attention to the engine, heck you are truly opperating it. Live steamers also seam to have smaller collections of rolling stock and therefore creat less of a demand for it. So perhaps another perspective to G scale. 1/32 is more Locomotive detail centric and 1/29 more of a macro appeal of product variety. I can't mix scales either!
 

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1/32 and 1/29 plastic locomotives are rolling stock are essentially equal in detail fidelity..I once had the opportunity to compare a MTH and a USA Trains Alco PA side by side..they were both equal in detail quality...it cant be said that one was any "more detailed" or better detailed than the other.

and actually, I doubt brass can be said to be better detailed either..personally, I have always considered brass to be of *lower* detail than plastic! When I was into HO scale in the 80's, a plastic Athern HO scale SD40-2 was a far superior model to brass SD40-2's..better derailed, better operating, and 25% the price..I have never understood why anyone would want brass..more expensive, and lower quality...(maybe the 80's was just a low point for brass..)

I wish MTH would switch to 1/29..I would love to have a VO1000! :)
and they are the only LS manufacturer who have gotten the EMD bulldog nose correct..They have the best F-unit in Large Scale..too bad its 1/32.

Scot
 

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Scot

For some of us it is NOT [too bad]. But then... no sense in rehashing an argument that has already caused far too many electrons too much personal disturbance.

Don't complain that MTH is the WRONG scale... complain that USA Trains did not do their model correctly.
 

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Don't complain that MTH is the WRONG scale... complain that USA Trains did not do their model correctly.
except I choose not to complain about that! ;)
I choose to complain that MTH isnt doing 1/29 scale..my choice.
you may disagree, that's fine..when it's a matter of opinion, we are both right.

And there is nothing "incorrect" about the USA trains model..
its absolutely perfect for 1/29 scale, not one single thing wrong with it! ;)

Scot
 

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I have never understood why anyone would want brass
It's not that anyone particularly wants brass.
A plastic mold costs so much that there has to be a (perceived) demand for 100s of the resulting models. Brass construction allows you to make a small run of identical models - typically 25 - 100. Brass is easy to work and solder, although you need steel for the wheels, etc.
 

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Scot, why not contact Aristocraft, tell them what you want. They already make your 1:29 trains.
huh..things are getting really odd lately..this is the third time this week someone has said something directed at me that has made no sense whatsoever..is it me? am I "out of it" somehow? I assume Jeff knows that Aristocraft has gone out of business, so his post is probably meant to be sarcastic somehow, or a joke of some kind..but if so, I haven't the slightest idea what it's supposed to mean..strange days on MLS..

Scot
 

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Availibility ???

I think the other fact that was left out is availability...
There is not a lot that has been made in 1/32nd and also MTH is either bailing on G scale or has really slowed it's releases on items. Roundhouse has departed the scale, yet Piko has come out with some rolling stock from the old molds. Details you say... Well many of us in 1/29th have discovered tht if you want something correct, you have to do it yourself. Several of us modelers have taken it upon ourselves to start correcting manufacturers errors in making models. I feel the gap in "G scale 1/29th" is the lack of detail parts for one to "dress up" their models. It's slowly coming around, but there's still not enough made. Myself being, my latest bone to pick is the lack of cabeese trucks. Not too many cabeese including all scales of G have the correct trucks in standard gauge. To get a pair of trucks that are correct for my cabeese I have to buy a caboose that is not anywhere close to the Western roads I model AND is closer to 1/32 than 1/29th. The trucks are close enough, but it's having to buy a whole model to get just the right parts I need. Locomotives are also among the worse to do as far as details. NOBODY makes a winterization hatch to go over a radiator fan, NOBODY makes an all weather window to go on the cab... I can keep going too. So, you have to make it youself. Even if they started making correct locos, cabeese etc. in 1/32 it's too late for me. I can't start over to match my current collection. So I stay happy with what I have and keep tearing models apart to build correct locos and rolling stock. It's my choice. Sure everyone wants it correct and ready to go outta the box, but it don't happen like that. So my wish is for more detail parts to help correct the errors. I need to think more about what I need before continuing. It's still too early yet for me as I stayed up after 3 AM working to correct a caboose that not only have the wrong trucks, but the wrong frame and wrong brake gear or lack of brake gear. And it goes on and on and on ......

Rocky
 

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Scot, (and other 1:29 fans) that was exactly my point. The people who started the ******* scale of 1:29 are OUT OF BUSINESS!
Why? over priced? I didn't think so.
Poor quality? track was good, never heard any wide spread problems with other stuff ,but then I'm a live steam 1:32 guy. So no first hand experience there, except for 3 early heavy weights, they are fine. (but just collecting dust)
Over produced scale.. ding ding ding YES
The market has shown the supply was greater then demand, so while MTH's plan to do produce gauge one in 1:32 may have selected a smaller market, they are still here.
This is all btw is response to the line in your first post "wishing MTH would switch to 1:29"
(fire suit on) your assent of the market?
 

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I'll put my 1968 Tenshodo GN S-2 up against any plastic HO model any day!!

There's a general resentment about Thread Cops... check da mirror....

Jeff was laffin', your 'better' scale couldn't support it's inventor. Ironical eh?

G24 is where it's at! Right in the middle!

Have fun, stay safe, Play Trains.

John
 

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I guess it doesn't help that modelers have such different needs. All the way from sets for a child, steam operators focused on the engines, to fine scale modelers. I can see how it's difficult for manufacturers to serve all these groups, especially when most of the market probably is going to run tight radii which force compromise in detail accuracy.

On the European side, LGB is roughly one-half to one-third the cost of Marklin.
 

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Geez guys, all this constant bickering about 1/29 and 1/32 scale crap has become very boring. After all, these things are STILL toys.....expensive toys, but still toys. We have the same comments made in the ride-on scales.....namely 1.5 inch per foot or the "new" 1.6 inch per foot (could be called finescale I guess). AND these are the guys running stuff on 7.5 inch gauge track. What about the guys in the northeast running on 7.25 inch gauge? Walt Disney built his 1.5 inch scale railroad on his property with 7.125 inch gauge, just to be more accurate. Should have been 7 1/6" to be absolutely precise. But again, I say, these are just expensive toys. Nothing more, nothing less.

Another thing about detail.....Paul Burch and I have been railroad buds since our days in high school....55 plus years ago. Paul's layout, locomotives and rolling stock is 1/29th. You will not find a more detailed layout inside or outside. His locomotives and rolling stock, when photographed close-up, defy you to tell whether they are the real thing or a model. Just my observation.:)

AND just to keep this scale thing in perspective........I model 3 foot NG with 45mm track in true scale 1:20.3.:cool:

So can we now quit the neverending squabble between 1/32 and 1/29 and just play with our "toys". I appreciate every one of them no matter!:)

BTW, I have a bunch of LGB from back in the day. Brand new in the mid 1980's. One of my most favorite trains to run is my LGB Santa Fe War Bonnet livery, Super Chief. LGB ABBA with Aristo streamliners! Not particularly scale, but I sure as **** love watching them go 'round my pool at Christmas!

EDIT: Seems the new software bleeps out my "heck"! Nice.........
 

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BRO

If you find some OLD Marklin catalogs [pre-Maxi] they make it quite clear that their Gauge 1 1:32 scale products are intended for those with DEEP POCKETS. There is/was a clear differentiation between the Maxi tinplate toys and the highly detailed Marklin Spur I.

Even though LGB and Marklin are now owned by the same company, they continue to pursue different markets, but the days of "bargain basement" prices on NEW LGB seem to be gone.

Scot

My comment to you was based entirely on the last part of this statement from you: "I wish MTH would switch to 1/29..I would love to have a VO1000! :)
and they are the only LS manufacturer who have gotten the EMD bulldog nose correct."
 

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except I choose not to complain about that! ;)
I choose to complain that MTH isnt doing 1/29 scale..my choice.
you may disagree, that's fine..when it's a matter of opinion, we are both right.

And there is nothing "incorrect" about the USA trains model..
its absolutely perfect for 1/29 scale, not one single thing wrong with it! ;)

Scot
Sorry, I beg to differ... if it were "absolutely perfect for 1/29 scale" then it would not run on "G-Gauge" tracks... the gauge would need to be 49.5mm (or 1.95inches), not 45mm (or 1.75inches).

It is true that the "looks" and level of detail is perfectly fine for a garden RR where it needs to handle the occasional derailment or overhanging Petunias and Rose bushes coming in contact with it (not to mention children and pets wanting to PLAY with the TOYS). "Perfect" detail (regardless of the scale) might get way too delicate when done "in scale"... a 3/4inch handrail would be a 0.025inch wire in 1:29 (even smaller in 1:32) and something that would be easily distorted just taking it out of the box!

That little 10% error in 1:29 scale in the spacing of the wheels is something that you have to put your head down on the tracks to look under the cars to see, and only the most visually accurate measurers will be able to detect the "error".


Mixing scales is another matter. That 'MINOR' error in scales means that a 1:32 scale car is 10% smaller in length than a 1:29 scale car and conversely that 'MINOR' error in scales means that a 1:29 scale car is 10% bigger in length than a 1:32 scale car and many people would not notice either. The same is true for the height and width parameters and is also not something the most people would notice...

But some people see "VOLUME", not separate Length, Width and Height parameters and the VOLUME difference is 30% and that is very noticeable if you mix scales.


If you run 1:29 scale, stick with it and let the manufacturers know what you want in the way of new models. And I will do the same in my desire for more 1:32 scale models of what I want. I have the feeling that the manufacturers will not pay much if any attention to either of us... From what I have seen, the financiers of the manufacturing make what strikes THEIR fancy with very little consideration for what we want.
 

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your assent of the market?
yes, MTH is still here, while Aristo is gone..
but..
Recent announcements of new products:

Piko Camelback - scale not defined by Piko, (on purpose im sure) but once the model is compared with the prototype, it will likely scale out to close to 1/29..others in the hobby agree with that likelihood: http://www.largescalecentral.com/forums/topic/20675/piko-new-2014-camelback/view/page/2

AML GP60 and SD9 - 1/29 scale.

going back a few years, Bachmann announces a standard gauge Streetcar..they can choose 1/32 or 1/29..they choose 1/29.

LGB's last American-profile diesel, the Amtrak Genesis..they can choose 1/32 or 1/29..they choose 1/29.

Thats four new standard gauge locomotives announced in the past 4 or 5 years, all in 1/29. (Five if you count the Piko Camelback, although the scale of that one is still uncertain) When was the last new plastic locomotive in 1/32? Probably the MTH Alco PA, from three years ago..there have been no new 1/32 scale locos announced since. (that I know of..)

My assessment of the market: The hobby is slowing overall..the economy killed Aristo..but 1/29 didnt kill Aristo. Was the recent AML announcement of the GP60 and SD9 a result of Aristo leaving the market? perhaps..Aristo's exit has probably opened a door for new products..AML had a choice between 1/29 and 1/32..They chose 1/29. So..1/29 still continues to edge-out 1/32 overall..which has been happening gradually for the past 20 years..I dont see a change in that trend.

And..no one is arguing in this thread! ;) The original poster/question in this thread was asking about the differences between 1/32 and 1/29..because he wants to know what people think about the topic..So, we are talking about the topic! ;) nothing wrong with that..Some people like to be rude and snarky to me personally, because they dont like my opinion on the topic..I cant help that, trolls will be trolls..I will just continue to talk about trains if people ask..

Scot
 

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Ahuh, This is going to start a flame war :eek:
First off, Aristo died because of bad business moves. AND don't forget AML is up and coming too, more and better quality 1/29 scale !!! Please don't bash 1/29th sayin' it's no good and that's what killed Aristo. There is no problem with 1/32 either and that's not what killed MDC, etc. There is no reason why both scales can't exist. Let us not forget that just over 20-25 years ago all G scale was LGB 1:22.5 Euro stuff. I'm not pickin' at 1/32 vs. 1/29, my bone to pick is the lack of available detail parts or correct trucks on rolling stock. I agree with totalwrecker, I had a few Tenshodo Brass steamers in HO decades ago that ran like swiss watches. Unfortunately I sold mine in order as with 99% of my HO to get more G scale . In the late 1980s and early 1990s G scale was being expanded by Aristo formerly REA and USA trains, then later Bachmann to target folks with an outdoor alternative to model railroading. Oh, let me not forget Lionel with their large scale line and then MDC Roundhouse with their 1/32 models and MTH joined the fray too. A lot of us HO and other indoor scales were swept off our feet and jumped right in. These companies made the models AFFORDABLE vs. LGB, which originally was the "doctors and lawyers only" scale due to their price. Many products were produced by these firms at a nice price. Bachmann rather stayed with the narrow gauge while the rest made both time periods. As time went on, folks bought and collected. Then in the mid/late 2000, the bubble bust and the economy went to h*ll. This along with the wrong business moves killed off several companies - LGB, Kalamazoo, Aristo, etc. So we have what we have now and have to make due with it. There are many things I wanted and were not made. So I learned to kitbash in G scale. I didn't do a whole lot in HO because sooo much more was made in HO. I also learned to stop complaining and learned to ask others for ideas/methods to kitbash when I could figure it out. You talk about it being $$$ for a model ??? It took 4, yes FOUR steam locos for me to get the one GN P-2 class 4-8-2 Mountain series loco. And it has more WORKING details than most brass locos. It was an award winner taking 2nd best in show at the ECLSTS in 2006. It was also my FIRST steam kitbash, so I was very lucky. I owe most of my ability to build from the folks here on MLS for knowledge to build it.

So where am I going with this ???
Why not sit down and figure out what you want, draw it or plan it out on paper. Ask folks for help, ideas or How do I build this. Then go find what you need and build it. You will appreciate it much more doing it yourself AND you have bragging rights to it. 1/32, 1/29, 1/20.3 size matters not. It all builds the same way. You might even find that you like building it youself too ;) You'll make more progress kitbashing than trying to bend the ear of a manufacturer to get something made, that is unless you have 5-6 digits of cash to slide them. We've all been here, done this etc. Now let's help each other out to make, modify or improve that which is made or not made -.


How can I help ???


Rocky
 

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From what I have seen, the financiers of the manufacturing make what strikes THEIR fancy with very little consideration for what we want.
That's interesting ... I inferred that most "large scale" is catering to the size of the potential market, which is why we have "egg-liners," Thomas, Polar Express, LGB "toy train," etc, not to mention non-scales in the first place. Just try to find an electric steam locomotive with properly detailed chassis, piping, or functioning of the articulation.

Even in the hobbyist market, there is so much copy-cat (lots of Big Boys) yet holes in the market that people are clamoring to have filled (look at the 1:32 passenger cars thread.) I wonder if the level of competition is making things worse, leaving no company with decent economy of scale? Add that to being gun-shy about inventory, and potential customers have poor selection.

At first I assumed I'd expand my LGB set over time, but I'd like a steamer and I'm already contemplating a mix of scales.
 

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Rocky, I agree with you about parts!
I too wish parts were more readily available..

A couple of AML GP60 shells, plus a couple of USA Trains SD40-2 frames, could result in a pair of my beloved Conrail SD50's..but we cant buy parts separately! :(

Bachmann to their credit finally got into the parts game..which is great! Atlas does it for their O-scale diesels too..I think (hope) all the manufacturers will eventually realize they could make a lot more sales if they would make individual parts more available..I hope that is something we see more of in the future.

Scot
 
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