Thank you all for the informative n entertaining contributions on this great website. Linda n i have laid down about 250 ft of a stainless loop of track, ten ft curves, with about a hundred of it trestled, bridged, or riding atop a precarious ridge thru our mountan logging camp. we have a question about powering up our railroad, and would appriciate any n all advice/insight from you all. we will be using a DCC system in the future, but would like to run some trains fairly soon. IF we were to hook up something like MRC's "big handled "10amp PS/controller now. could we later use this unit for the power supply for a yet undetermined DCC system? If so, how?... and if not, what would work? Thanks! (we're too overwelmed with DCC info to make a decision right now)
ANOTHER POWER QUESTION???
RioShay
21 - 40 of 49 Posts
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Posted By Chucks_Trains on 05/23/2009 3:52 PM
Do yourself a favor and buy a Bridgewerks power supply and if you need remote capability then buy a model with that option.
Most of the Bridgewerks Mag models have a set of binding posts on the rear that supplies 24-30 volts DC if/when you need some serious power.
Bridgewerks are made in the USA and if it ever needs service it will be fixed within a week.
I have a Mag 10 Bridgewerks.... lovely...
Problem is and I am no electrician... when I set my voltmeter to it I get DC voltages all over the place... confusing..
gg
Do yourself a favor and buy a Bridgewerks power supply and if you need remote capability then buy a model with that option.
Most of the Bridgewerks Mag models have a set of binding posts on the rear that supplies 24-30 volts DC if/when you need some serious power.
Bridgewerks are made in the USA and if it ever needs service it will be fixed within a week.
I have a Mag 10 Bridgewerks.... lovely...
Problem is and I am no electrician... when I set my voltmeter to it I get DC voltages all over the place... confusing..
gg
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1,543 Posts
Posted By Greg Elmassian on 05/23/2009 11:29 PM
Well, I know Bridgewerks is a nice expensive supply, built nicely. But it's a bad choice for DCC... it is not regulated, and there are many experiences with overvoltage... it's also overkill for what he needs.
I know I will get static for this, but I believe it's not a good choice here for the stated purpose.
Regards, Greg
Greg is right.... I have repaired so many rolling stock and Eng's with LED's in them that have been blowen using Bridgewerks.. There good for power if you have some kind of a load for it to reference to.. but not just LED lighting by it self...
A year or so I gave a report on the older 4 throttle Bridgewerks for a person to put on E-bay. So to warn them of the problems.
But ........they are great for heavy loads running mult. Eng's. This thing had 4 -10 amp transformers in it and unregulated voltage would jump up to 28 volts. DC. They can handle anything for extra power..
To me.. DCC needs a clean fixed/ regulated voltage.
We went thru the old school on DCC in Ho. Trains years back.
We had the same problem with home made power supplys not being regulated...
Well, I know Bridgewerks is a nice expensive supply, built nicely. But it's a bad choice for DCC... it is not regulated, and there are many experiences with overvoltage... it's also overkill for what he needs.
I know I will get static for this, but I believe it's not a good choice here for the stated purpose.
Regards, Greg
Greg is right.... I have repaired so many rolling stock and Eng's with LED's in them that have been blowen using Bridgewerks.. There good for power if you have some kind of a load for it to reference to.. but not just LED lighting by it self...
A year or so I gave a report on the older 4 throttle Bridgewerks for a person to put on E-bay. So to warn them of the problems.
But ........they are great for heavy loads running mult. Eng's. This thing had 4 -10 amp transformers in it and unregulated voltage would jump up to 28 volts. DC. They can handle anything for extra power..
To me.. DCC needs a clean fixed/ regulated voltage.
We went thru the old school on DCC in Ho. Trains years back.
We had the same problem with home made power supplys not being regulated...
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2,821 Posts
By using the throttle and not the fixed port on the back that is rated for 24 volts. i have a TDR 25 and never had a issue running anything....
![Image]()
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2,821 Posts
Sensative arnt we... he he he, i have forgotten to mention that my TDR has a built in volt meter........
![Image]()
your in Canada rite, lawyers are too much $ up there. Come to NY i'l sue you here ha ha ha... my 1st wife was Sue.... kinda touchy subject... see GG you had to bring up Sue didnt YOU HE HE HE
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Posted By Nicholas Savatgy on 05/27/2009 7:27 PM
Sensative arnt we... he he he, i have forgotten to mention that my TDR has a built in volt meter........
![Image]()
your in Canada rite, lawyers are too much $ up there. Come to NY i'l sue you here ha ha ha... my 1st wife was Sue.... kinda touchy subject... see GG you had to bring up Sue didnt YOU HE HE HE
Ok, would this be the happy state of New York or the City of same?
No, I am not sensitive however recognize that this train bit and automation of same is not simple...
Now, I am glad to live up here in the north land where I can actually say something logical and not get sued !!!
Joke is on me, my man...
![Image]()
Sensative arnt we... he he he, i have forgotten to mention that my TDR has a built in volt meter........
Ok, would this be the happy state of New York or the City of same?
No, I am not sensitive however recognize that this train bit and automation of same is not simple...
Now, I am glad to live up here in the north land where I can actually say something logical and not get sued !!!
Joke is on me, my man...
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24,522 Posts
Moving the throttle just adjusts the output voltage at the current load. Change the load, and the voltage changes. Too little load and often you get too much voltage.
The throttle is not regulation, regulation is performed by a circuit the Bridgewerks (because it is not a regulated supply, was not designed that way) does not have.
Making a regulator circuit for a Bridgewerks would cost a lot of money, a lot, not practical. You want to regulate the voltage "as it is being made".
A regulator is like the cruise control on your car, it modulates the fuel to the motor to vary the power to achieve a desired speed.
Regulating a bridgewerks would be like mashing the throttle down and controlling the speed with ONLY the brake. Not efficient.
The Bridgewerks does fine for what it was intended to be, a large, high capacity, DC throttle with lots of current and highly filtered output.
DCC works fine with an inexpensive regulated switching power supply, at hundreds of dollars less for the same voltage and current.
If I was running DC and had lots of $$, I would have bridgewerks. If I was running DCS I might consider it, as long as the overvoltage problems were solved on the model I had (Which might be true for all Bridgewerks, I don't know), for DCC, $82 buys me a 27 volt, 11 amp supply that works fine with my NCE DCC 10 amp booster.
Regards, Greg
The throttle is not regulation, regulation is performed by a circuit the Bridgewerks (because it is not a regulated supply, was not designed that way) does not have.
Making a regulator circuit for a Bridgewerks would cost a lot of money, a lot, not practical. You want to regulate the voltage "as it is being made".
A regulator is like the cruise control on your car, it modulates the fuel to the motor to vary the power to achieve a desired speed.
Regulating a bridgewerks would be like mashing the throttle down and controlling the speed with ONLY the brake. Not efficient.
The Bridgewerks does fine for what it was intended to be, a large, high capacity, DC throttle with lots of current and highly filtered output.
DCC works fine with an inexpensive regulated switching power supply, at hundreds of dollars less for the same voltage and current.
If I was running DC and had lots of $$, I would have bridgewerks. If I was running DCS I might consider it, as long as the overvoltage problems were solved on the model I had (Which might be true for all Bridgewerks, I don't know), for DCC, $82 buys me a 27 volt, 11 amp supply that works fine with my NCE DCC 10 amp booster.
Regards, Greg
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141 Posts
Thank you all again for the variety of ways we might power up our R/R. linda n i are running an RC train on about 70% of our mainline loop, for now, and already entertaining the nieghborhood and quad riders coming by the back fence. i've found the meanwell S 320-24 for about $110-120, but since we picked up all our SS track from one of the forums sponsers, st aubin's, we thought that maybe the "everest 15A/24V PS with 15A controller they carry, would work for us if the power supply is regulated? (hard to tell by their ad) ... but after a discussion at dinner, we realized we will only be running one, maybe two locos very slowly around our mtn short line. will 15A/24V be our ticket for fun running on a layout like ours, or is it overkill and a 10A/18v system all we need?
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24,522 Posts
Do not use the Everest with DCC, the 2 units I have experience with shut themselves off on DCC boosters. I would buy the Elite at 10 amps (or is it 13?) plenty good enough and no problems with it by anyone... The Meanwell should not cost you over $85....
Regards, Greg
Regards, Greg
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141 Posts
THANKS GREG, hands-on experience is everything. i took a look at the elite, and w/ the 10A controller, we think that will get us rolling this year. and can power up an NCE DCC system later. i checked e-bay and several other listings and couldn't find the 320-24 any less( plus shipping)
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http://www.trcelectronics.com/Meanwell/s-320-24.shtml
24v, 12.5 amps, $71, same place I bought my MeanWell...
Regards, Greg
24v, 12.5 amps, $71, same place I bought my MeanWell...
Regards, Greg
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141 Posts
THANKS AGAIN GREG and MLS'ers!, we ordered the S-320-24 from them today, and will pick-up an ultima 10A controller to use with it, and beleive we're headed in a pretty good direction now, thanks to all the info gathered from MLS, we'll be having FUN running trains, and maybe not taking multiple steps full of frustration or discouragement. you mentioned adding a power cord to the 320, if its pretty straight forward, then great, if there's any tips i can use, please let us know
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24,522 Posts
There are screw terminals on the end of the power supply, drop by Home depot, pick up a 3 prong cord (probably a couple of bucks), and it would not hurt to put crimp on terminals on the ends of the 3 leads, or you could twist the wire, and solder it. I added an on-off switch in line with mine.
I bought a power cord, then slit the jacket, and just took out the black wire, cut it, and connected it to the SPST switch you see above with the red tape on it.
I left the white and green wires intact. Then the end of the wire goes down to the meanwell on the bottom of the stack in this picture.
Regards, Greg
![Image]()
I bought a power cord, then slit the jacket, and just took out the black wire, cut it, and connected it to the SPST switch you see above with the red tape on it.
I left the white and green wires intact. Then the end of the wire goes down to the meanwell on the bottom of the stack in this picture.
Regards, Greg
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627 Posts
Posted By Greg Elmassian on 05/23/2009 11:29 PM
Well, I know Bridgewerks is a nice expensive supply, built nicely. But it's a bad choice for DCC... it is not regulated, and there are many experiences with overvoltage... it's also overkill for what he needs.
I know I will get static for this, but I believe it's not a good choice here for the stated purpose.
Regards, Greg
But Greg you say quote"That's one reason I keep recommending the MRC unit. I recommend 24 volts DC in for most DCC systems (that can take DC). I use 27 volts myself which get very close to 24 to the track (after the DCC booster), and gets about 21 to the motor itself. "
So what your saying is the MRC unit is regulated??
Well, I know Bridgewerks is a nice expensive supply, built nicely. But it's a bad choice for DCC... it is not regulated, and there are many experiences with overvoltage... it's also overkill for what he needs.
I know I will get static for this, but I believe it's not a good choice here for the stated purpose.
Regards, Greg
But Greg you say quote"That's one reason I keep recommending the MRC unit. I recommend 24 volts DC in for most DCC systems (that can take DC). I use 27 volts myself which get very close to 24 to the track (after the DCC booster), and gets about 21 to the motor itself. "
So what your saying is the MRC unit is regulated??
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24,522 Posts
Chuck, as the thread has progressed, the focus and the discussion has likewise.
The original question is/was:
Thank you all for the informative n entertaining contributions on this great website. Linda n i have laid down about 250 ft of a stainless loop of track, ten ft curves, with about a hundred of it trestled, bridged, or riding atop a precarious ridge thru our mountan logging camp. we have a question about powering up our railroad, and would appriciate any n all advice/insight from you all. we will be using a DCC system in the future, but would like to run some trains fairly soon. IF we were to hook up something like MRC's "big handled "10amp PS/controller now. could we later use this unit for the power supply for a yet undetermined DCC system? If so, how?... and if not, what would work? Thanks! (we're too overwelmed with DCC info to make a decision right now)
So, is the MRC a good choice in this case? Yes I think so:
[*]not expensive [*]can be used to run trains now [*]can be used later to run DCC [/list] Now, the Bridgewerks has been documented (many posts in this and other forums) to SOMETIMES put out a very high voltage when lightly loaded. I have seen no posts that the MRC does this, and I have an MRC and mine does not do this.
Therefore I believe it is not the best choice for DCC, for exactly the reasons in my post you quoted.
Maybe "bad" is an inflammatory adjective, but if it was inexpensive and had the propensity to have overvoltage that would make it a poor choice. The fact that it is expensive and had this propensity and DCC is sensitive to overvoltage when you run near the "limit" as we usually need to in large scale DCC... then my OPINION is that it is a bad choice (for DCC).
No, the MRC is not regulated, but it is not expensive and does not have any reported overvoltage problems to my knowledge.
That's just about as logical and factual as I can be based on my research, reading forums and personal experience as explained above.
Regards, Greg
p.s. in the light of other recent threads, what I recommend for others is based on my best perception of their needs and priorities as they state it, which may be different than my needs and priorities.
The original question is/was:
Thank you all for the informative n entertaining contributions on this great website. Linda n i have laid down about 250 ft of a stainless loop of track, ten ft curves, with about a hundred of it trestled, bridged, or riding atop a precarious ridge thru our mountan logging camp. we have a question about powering up our railroad, and would appriciate any n all advice/insight from you all. we will be using a DCC system in the future, but would like to run some trains fairly soon. IF we were to hook up something like MRC's "big handled "10amp PS/controller now. could we later use this unit for the power supply for a yet undetermined DCC system? If so, how?... and if not, what would work? Thanks! (we're too overwelmed with DCC info to make a decision right now)
So, is the MRC a good choice in this case? Yes I think so:
[*]not expensive [*]can be used to run trains now [*]can be used later to run DCC [/list] Now, the Bridgewerks has been documented (many posts in this and other forums) to SOMETIMES put out a very high voltage when lightly loaded. I have seen no posts that the MRC does this, and I have an MRC and mine does not do this.
Therefore I believe it is not the best choice for DCC, for exactly the reasons in my post you quoted.
Maybe "bad" is an inflammatory adjective, but if it was inexpensive and had the propensity to have overvoltage that would make it a poor choice. The fact that it is expensive and had this propensity and DCC is sensitive to overvoltage when you run near the "limit" as we usually need to in large scale DCC... then my OPINION is that it is a bad choice (for DCC).
No, the MRC is not regulated, but it is not expensive and does not have any reported overvoltage problems to my knowledge.
That's just about as logical and factual as I can be based on my research, reading forums and personal experience as explained above.
Regards, Greg
p.s. in the light of other recent threads, what I recommend for others is based on my best perception of their needs and priorities as they state it, which may be different than my needs and priorities.
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118 Posts
Hello: I am a newbie and this may sound stupid......but could a person use two PC power supplies in series for a 24V dcc supply? They are regulated and I have a bunch laying around....I don't have a sparky but may end up with one eventually. DCC was just starting when I had to get rid of my HO layout so I have no experience in it. I don't guess this is stealing the thread as the original poster may be interested in the answer too.
Johnny
Johnny
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2,615 Posts
Not stupid.
Except, they must be wired in parallel (not series) with a suitable diode on each of the + positive outputs to prevent back feeding one to the other.
I do it all the time with three x 3.8 amp 24 volt supplies to power a 10 amp trackside R/C I make.
Except, they must be wired in parallel (not series) with a suitable diode on each of the + positive outputs to prevent back feeding one to the other.
I do it all the time with three x 3.8 amp 24 volt supplies to power a 10 amp trackside R/C I make.
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24,522 Posts
You could also wire two 12v regulated supplies in series. There should be no problem with that. You could also wire two unregulated supplies in series.
One thing that would be advisable is for them to have similar or identical current capabilities.
Regards, Greg
One thing that would be advisable is for them to have similar or identical current capabilities.
Regards, Greg
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627 Posts
Posted By Greg Elmassian on 06/07/2009 7:03 PM
Chuck, as the thread has progressed, the focus and the discussion has likewise.
The original question is/was:
Thank you all for the informative n entertaining contributions on this great website. Linda n i have laid down about 250 ft of a stainless loop of track, ten ft curves, with about a hundred of it trestled, bridged, or riding atop a precarious ridge thru our mountan logging camp. we have a question about powering up our railroad, and would appriciate any n all advice/insight from you all. we will be using a DCC system in the future, but would like to run some trains fairly soon. IF we were to hook up something like MRC's "big handled "10amp PS/controller now. could we later use this unit for the power supply for a yet undetermined DCC system? If so, how?... and if not, what would work? Thanks! (we're too overwelmed with DCC info to make a decision right now)
So, is the MRC a good choice in this case? Yes I think so:
[*]not expensive [*]can be used to run trains now [*]can be used later to run DCC [/list] Now, the Bridgewerks has been documented (many posts in this and other forums) to SOMETIMES put out a very high voltage when lightly loaded. I have seen no posts that the MRC does this, and I have an MRC and mine does not do this.
Therefore I believe it is not the best choice for DCC, for exactly the reasons in my post you quoted.
Maybe "bad" is an inflammatory adjective, but if it was inexpensive and had the propensity to have overvoltage that would make it a poor choice. The fact that it is expensive and had this propensity and DCC is sensitive to overvoltage when you run near the "limit" as we usually need to in large scale DCC... then my OPINION is that it is a bad choice (for DCC).
No, the MRC is not regulated, but it is not expensive and does not have any reported overvoltage problems to my knowledge.
That's just about as logical and factual as I can be based on my research, reading forums and personal experience as explained above.
Regards, Greg
p.s. in the light of other recent threads, what I recommend for others is based on my best perception of their needs and priorities as they state it, which may be different than my needs and priorities.
Well Greg that's great that YOUR topic has moved on but I feel that your misleading folks with YOUR facts.
Earlier in this thread George posted " You will want about 22 to 24 volts of DCC on the track for mainline speeds, about 16 to 18 volts for NG speeds. This means that for mainline operation, you will want 26 to 28 volts of DC at 10 amps or better. Most DC power packs will not do this. For AC input, you will want 18 to 20 volts AC at 16 amps."
Greg your own post on page one agrees with George "That's one reason I keep recommending the MRC unit. I recommend 24 volts DC in for most DCC systems (that can take DC). I use 27 volts myself which get very close to 24 to the track (after the DCC booster), and gets about 21 to the motor itself"
Since MRC's own pulished documents rate the Power G at 22 VDC...here's the link..MRC Power G
This FACT alone tells me that the Power G is not the best suited for this topics Author RioShay.
So let's move on tou YOUR next recommendation the switching regulated power supply the Meanwell S-320-24 which in my opinion isn't the best power supply for running trains in conventional track power mode. Why do I feel this way well maybe because of the phone conversations over the years with both USA Trains service & Phoenix sound customer service about using switching power supplies with their products..which is something they don't recommend by the way. What do they recommend?? Clean DC Power.
Not that I'm against switching power supplies as they do have a place in large scale but to me it's not operating trains in conventional track powered mode but ONLY powering a DCC equipped layout. How do I know this well because that's how my layout was powered when I used DCC.
Have you ever seen a USA Hudson trying to operate on a track powered switching power supplied layout especially when it's just sitting with enough volts to operate the sound, lights & smoke unit?? All it'll do is flicker the lights!!
Now as far as Bridgewerks being way over priced and out of reach for anybody but the well to do let's just take a look. A 10 amp MRG Power G lists for $269.98 but can be bought at Wholesale trains for $154.99 which is rated at only 22 volts.
On the other hand a Bridgewerks 10 amp Magnum 10-SR lists for $379.99 but can be bought at Ridge Road Station for $273.59 which will deliver at least 28 volts.
So for what?? $120.00 more you get 25% more available power to the rails. Clean power that ALL trains like.
Greg, Have you ever tried powering a DCC system with a Bridgewerks or have you ever owned a Bridgewerks power supply? Do you have any FACTS such as charts, graphs ar maybe a scope shot of a Bridgewerks showing the fabled unloaded legendary voltage spikes?? Or is all your FACTS just heresay jotted down in cyberspace??
Something else about Bridgewerks & Ruby's Resturant. Ruby's has large scale trains operating and when they were powered with a switching power supply the motors were burning out in a few weeks. Since using a Bridgewerks the motors last a year!! How do I know this because I sold a Bridgewerks Power Supply to the fellow who has the contracts to keep them operating on Ebay a few years back.
Greg, Why don't you just give the owner of Bridgewerks Dave Sauerwald a call at 800-908-9997 and discuss the lengendary voltage spike. By the way Dave is an electrical engineer and his son is Director of Engineering at National Semi Conductor out in Santa Clara.
Chuck, as the thread has progressed, the focus and the discussion has likewise.
The original question is/was:
Thank you all for the informative n entertaining contributions on this great website. Linda n i have laid down about 250 ft of a stainless loop of track, ten ft curves, with about a hundred of it trestled, bridged, or riding atop a precarious ridge thru our mountan logging camp. we have a question about powering up our railroad, and would appriciate any n all advice/insight from you all. we will be using a DCC system in the future, but would like to run some trains fairly soon. IF we were to hook up something like MRC's "big handled "10amp PS/controller now. could we later use this unit for the power supply for a yet undetermined DCC system? If so, how?... and if not, what would work? Thanks! (we're too overwelmed with DCC info to make a decision right now)
So, is the MRC a good choice in this case? Yes I think so:
[*]not expensive [*]can be used to run trains now [*]can be used later to run DCC [/list] Now, the Bridgewerks has been documented (many posts in this and other forums) to SOMETIMES put out a very high voltage when lightly loaded. I have seen no posts that the MRC does this, and I have an MRC and mine does not do this.
Therefore I believe it is not the best choice for DCC, for exactly the reasons in my post you quoted.
Maybe "bad" is an inflammatory adjective, but if it was inexpensive and had the propensity to have overvoltage that would make it a poor choice. The fact that it is expensive and had this propensity and DCC is sensitive to overvoltage when you run near the "limit" as we usually need to in large scale DCC... then my OPINION is that it is a bad choice (for DCC).
No, the MRC is not regulated, but it is not expensive and does not have any reported overvoltage problems to my knowledge.
That's just about as logical and factual as I can be based on my research, reading forums and personal experience as explained above.
Regards, Greg
p.s. in the light of other recent threads, what I recommend for others is based on my best perception of their needs and priorities as they state it, which may be different than my needs and priorities.
Well Greg that's great that YOUR topic has moved on but I feel that your misleading folks with YOUR facts.
Earlier in this thread George posted " You will want about 22 to 24 volts of DCC on the track for mainline speeds, about 16 to 18 volts for NG speeds. This means that for mainline operation, you will want 26 to 28 volts of DC at 10 amps or better. Most DC power packs will not do this. For AC input, you will want 18 to 20 volts AC at 16 amps."
Greg your own post on page one agrees with George "That's one reason I keep recommending the MRC unit. I recommend 24 volts DC in for most DCC systems (that can take DC). I use 27 volts myself which get very close to 24 to the track (after the DCC booster), and gets about 21 to the motor itself"
Since MRC's own pulished documents rate the Power G at 22 VDC...here's the link..MRC Power G
This FACT alone tells me that the Power G is not the best suited for this topics Author RioShay.
So let's move on tou YOUR next recommendation the switching regulated power supply the Meanwell S-320-24 which in my opinion isn't the best power supply for running trains in conventional track power mode. Why do I feel this way well maybe because of the phone conversations over the years with both USA Trains service & Phoenix sound customer service about using switching power supplies with their products..which is something they don't recommend by the way. What do they recommend?? Clean DC Power.
Not that I'm against switching power supplies as they do have a place in large scale but to me it's not operating trains in conventional track powered mode but ONLY powering a DCC equipped layout. How do I know this well because that's how my layout was powered when I used DCC.
Have you ever seen a USA Hudson trying to operate on a track powered switching power supplied layout especially when it's just sitting with enough volts to operate the sound, lights & smoke unit?? All it'll do is flicker the lights!!
Now as far as Bridgewerks being way over priced and out of reach for anybody but the well to do let's just take a look. A 10 amp MRG Power G lists for $269.98 but can be bought at Wholesale trains for $154.99 which is rated at only 22 volts.
On the other hand a Bridgewerks 10 amp Magnum 10-SR lists for $379.99 but can be bought at Ridge Road Station for $273.59 which will deliver at least 28 volts.
So for what?? $120.00 more you get 25% more available power to the rails. Clean power that ALL trains like.
Greg, Have you ever tried powering a DCC system with a Bridgewerks or have you ever owned a Bridgewerks power supply? Do you have any FACTS such as charts, graphs ar maybe a scope shot of a Bridgewerks showing the fabled unloaded legendary voltage spikes?? Or is all your FACTS just heresay jotted down in cyberspace??
Something else about Bridgewerks & Ruby's Resturant. Ruby's has large scale trains operating and when they were powered with a switching power supply the motors were burning out in a few weeks. Since using a Bridgewerks the motors last a year!! How do I know this because I sold a Bridgewerks Power Supply to the fellow who has the contracts to keep them operating on Ebay a few years back.
Greg, Why don't you just give the owner of Bridgewerks Dave Sauerwald a call at 800-908-9997 and discuss the lengendary voltage spike. By the way Dave is an electrical engineer and his son is Director of Engineering at National Semi Conductor out in Santa Clara.
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