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ESU Loksound XL 3.5 / Smoke Pulse Generator

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cbenschII@yahoo.com

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
I have been eyeballing many different decoders available on the market; comparing cost to feature/benefit ratio. I'm upgrading my LGB 2085D mallet, which has a cranky analog board, to digital using it on a 1st generation LGB 55000 MTS unit. I'm particularly interested in the Massoth eMotion XLS, Zimo MX695KV and ESU Loksound XL. It seems all three are priced similarly, however, being fiscally conservative and a good "shopper" I've found the Loksound in a 3.5 version for just $150. The features I'd most like to see are really related to sound and smoke. I won't be controlling any servos. The 3.5 seems to satisfy those needs and I won't need the 4.0 (I don't think).

My questions are:

1) How would I configure the decoder to allow for pulsed smoke? I'd most likely upgrade the smoke generator to a USA Trains unit with the fan like my buddy in Germany has done with his mallet --> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iHwo5LjNVBo The features listed on the ESU site, as well as the manual, do not elaborate. This unit seems to have it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZcuQWoc0Ah4

2) The ESU site also does not clarify if I have to actually order the programmer too. I'd like prototypical sounds, sure, but I'm not terribly picky. If it ships with generic European steam sounds I'm okay with that.

Thank you! All of you on this forum have been great!
Calvin
 
#2 ·
I have two of the loksound xl 3.5 decoders and I like them very much. Excellent, smooth motor control, good lighting options, excellent sound. BUT I don't believe you can run a pulsed smoke generator with the 3.5. There are no connections for a fan. You can power a smoke generator, and turn it on and off, but you can't control a fan with it, so no pulsing. It's not in the manual, and there is no connection for fan control

You need to the programmer to do major changes to the sound package--for example, to change from steam to diesel, or to change the relative volume of different sounds. Everything else you can do by entering CVs or by using JMRI with a different interface.

You CAN control a pulsed smoke generator with the XL 4.0, but I dont have one of those and haven't tried it.


QSI's titan decoders will allow you to run a pulsed smoke generator, but I have not found it to be worth the effort. The documentation QSI supplies is really really bad, and to get a lot of smoke you need to ramp up the voltage to a point where the smoke generator(train LI and USAT modeles) gets alarmingly hot. When I run it at voltage of around 8 or volt the effect is pretty much "meh." 'm planning to try it in a metal loco, which will theorreticaly be more heat tolerant
 
#4 ·
Hi Calvin,
If the ESU decoder has a SUSI interface it could control a Massoth pulsed smoke maker including load. If not you could still use it and trigger the chuffing with magnets or the hall-effect Massoth pulse generator. Have a read of the Massoth pulsed smoke maker manual and that should help.
Keith
 
#6 ·
Posted By Cougar Rock Rail on 04 Jan 2013 12:05 PM
Hi Calvin,
If the ESU decoder has a SUSI interface it could control a Massoth pulsed smoke maker including load. If not you could still use it and trigger the chuffing with magnets or the hall-effect Massoth pulse generator. Have a read of the Massoth pulsed smoke maker manual and that should help.
Keith
Here again I'm pretty sure the XL 4.0 has a SUSI interface, and the 3.5 does not
 
#9 ·
Hi Calvin,
the ESU 3.5 cannot control directly a pulsed smoke genaerator, the 4.0 can do. But some problems with the "load effect" via SUSI.
I myself run only ESU decoders (3.5XL) in the moment, with the 4.0 I dont have any experience yet.
I also have a massoth smoke unit in a K27. But this one has an independent power supply and a seperate chuff trigger. I only control the power supply for the smoke unit via a relaiis trigerred from the decoder.
That works fine.
The best solution would be the massoth decoder together with the massoth smoke unit, then you will have pulsed chuff including the load effects.
Udo
 
#10 ·
Calvin:

I cannot help but agree with Keith and Udo, your best solution would be a massoth XLS decoder together with a Massoth pulsed smoke generator, you will have pulsed and load-dependent smoke and prototypical sound. We do all the programming for you. Your Massoth XLS decoder would be delivered ready to install along with a good quality speaker at no extra charge.

Mohammed
http://www.allaboutlgb.com
http://www.massothusa.com
 
#12 ·
For pulsed smoke and heater element control I prefer the Zimo decoder over Massoth. 6 amps, 10 watt audio (into a 4 ohm load), 3 pulse motor settings, 3 heater element settings, 4 servo controls and a SUSI bus.

All this and under $250 for decoder with programmable sound plus the smoke unit by Train-Li.

PS I do work with Train-Li doing upgrades and repairs, therefore I do promote their products, but the info/spec I mentioned above is from the MX695 manual!!
 
Discussion starter · #13 ·
So here is something semi-on semi-off topic. While I'm trying to determine which decoder is best for me (and the above advice surely helps!) I'm running my analog loco on an MTS in analog. I just received my 1st generation MTS 55000 controller today, powered with 20 volts and 5 amps as required. When I ran my 2085D mallet in analog mode, with the front selector set so the lights and smoke unit were powered but the motors were off, the smoke unit got red hot which I've never seen with the regular DC voltage and analog throttle. Now the stock smoke unit appears fried. What gives?!
 
Discussion starter · #14 ·
PS-It is definitely down to Zimo and Massoth. Even though I'm on a 1st generation MTS and know I can't use as many functions as would be available to me I'd like to future proof this loco for my future controller upgrades. Ah decisions decisions.
 
#16 ·
The smoke unit in the 2085D is a 5 volt unit and if it glows it is somehow tied to a much higher voltage. I never run analog engines on my DCC system and I have the 55000 which I use on a small loop.

The MTS unit you have is Serial only, but will work and with only addresses 1-8. Down side of serial is that if you need to press the F8 key, then you need 8 presses of the button and approx 8 seconds of wait time for the function to occur.

F3 would be 3 presses and 3 seconds wait time. This info is for the train mouse as to the key presses as this mouse does not have but 1 key for F1-9.

And this system is 14 speed steps only and decoders need to be able to match the Serial only/14 speed steps in the setup.
Zimo decoders as well as Massoth and of course all LGB decoders can do this. And since Lenz made the first MTS decoders, they may work also, check the decoder specs carefully for this, esp the serial part.

I used the MX695LV which has pins not the terminals for my 2085D. If you made your own 5 volt source, you can use the LS for even less $$ than I mentioned.
And remember there is a charge for some of the load codes, so the MX695LS, load code and smoke unit would be what I already mentioned. The MX695KV is a more expensive decoder.

On another note, many older systems do not address CV's above 255, and some not above 127. The train mouse or 55016 can only change cv1-4, and you need the 55015 or computer 55045 to program and only the 55045 will read registers. I mention this as sound and smoke controls are above CV255 which your MTS system can not address.

So, for changes a more modern system is needed, but what you have will run many engines for years to come.


PS, install a DPDT switch to the track and use a conventional analog power control for non dcc engines. I use the same DC power at my test station and feed a MTS as well as an analog control as I only use one or the other, not both at the same time.
 
Discussion starter · #17 ·
Considering I bought the 55000 with mouse for only $50 I'm feeling quite comfortable having limitations! :)

I'm a little rusty here and I don't quite understand all of the digital jargon yet. I understand serial communcation and how the buttons on the mouse need to be pressed multiple times for certain functions (9 functions for me in all). I haven't quite grasped the idea of what CVs are. I understand they are programmable features, but I can't quite grasp how exactly they are programmed and what each numerical value represents. I also haven't quite figured out what is automatic and what is manual. As an example, what will the Zimo sound unit do automatically straight out of the box? Perhaps the automatic sounds are enough for me at this stage. (I saw the YouTube video showing break release and draincocks open at start of motion...several horns/whistles...then break squeal when stopping. Not sure if they're automatic or manual.)

Realistically, I'm really only interested in being able to turn lights on/off, have synchronized chuff sounds/smoke, blow the horn/whistle and, even though it doesn't seem possible based on the above, blow smoke at stand still. I understand other features can be applied when I upgrade my MTS (down the road...)

The MX695LV is fine. I'm OK with pins. Do I need any other electronic components for a basic installation? Resistors, condensors, etc.?

I'm in CT. Might have to make a road trip to Mass. :)
 
#18 ·
Please do visit and let me know when so I can bring in my 2085D. Call Joane at 508-529-9166 and let her know your plan. We have the 55005 Serial MTS system on our test layout.

CV's are registers in the decoder and some are read only like manfacturer code, firmware revision.
Others are read/write like engine number (CV 1 can be 1-8 for the train mouse). CV29 is for analog/digital/long addressing/speed steps

As electronics advance, more capability is engineered into the decoders.

So, what you want to do is OK with the 2085, you just have to figure out what features you want with the limited function selections the older system can do.

In general instant function for light is head light, and then F1 is bell, F2 is whistle. Higher function numbers can be for turning smoke on/off and sound on/off as these can wait the 5 to 9 seconds for activation.

And since the decoder has switch inputs, you can have track magnets to activate the bell and whistle, and a volume control can be added as this CV can not be addressed by the system or mouse.

Note, I will be at the Springfield show on Saturday at the end of this month, and in Sturbridge, MA at the home show next Sat afternoon running a modular layout with the Inner City group.
 
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