G Scale Model Train Forum banner
Cancel
Create thread New Forums

What to do

Jump to Latest
1 - 16 of 16 Posts

HampshireCountyNarrowGage

· Premium Member
Joined
·
248 Posts
Discussion starter · #1 ·
Hello everybody,



Hi, I'm Chester Louis and I am a newbie to live steam. I've been in model railroading since I was 11(I'm 64 now) and was introduced to live steam when I was 12. My parents took me to see the Pioneer Valley Live Steamer here in western Massachusetts. When we were leaving to go home, I was telling myself that someday I'll own one.



I am now the proud owner of an Accucraft 4-4-0. She arrived two weeks ago and have spent most of the time just looking at her. The way about how I became a live steamer is my doctor has been on my chase about getting more exercise. I started thinking about ways to make him and me happy. I won't bore you with all the things I thought of but we all know where I ended up. There will be plenty of exercise building an outdoors railroad which will be elevated. More on that later.


As a newbie to live steam, I have a million questions but will only ask a couple for now. You mite say the Nevada County Narrow Gauge RR is my favorite narrow gauge railroad with the South Pacific Coast in close second. The NCNG's #1 was a 4-4-0 and during her career she was converted to an oil burner. It's this look that I have started my 4-4-0's transformation to look like. I took her down to the workshop yesterday and while I had her lying on her side I was checking out the eccentrics and saw them covered with that shipping kind of grease you find on machinery. Question 1. Shouldn't the eccentrics be washed and cleaned before oiling them? What is the best cleaner to use?



While getting out the small parts bag I came across the boiler and tank certificate. Question #2. Do you have to keep the certificate with the locomotive? For instance, an aircraft must have its airworthiness certificate on board the aircraft and in plain sight at all times other wise it could leave the ground. Has anybody been stopped and ask to see their paperwork?



Question #3. How often do you completely drain the boiler? Do you ever keep water in the boiler at the end of the day because you will be firing her up again the next day? What will be the easiest way to drain the 4-4-0?



As I progress with the transformation I will take photos and share them with everybody.



Chester Louis SA #64
Hampshire County Narrow Gauge
 
#2 ·
1.) Honestly, I am not sure. As a general rule of thumb, if it moves it should be lubricated.

2.) The certificate (to the best of my knowledge) is simply for your own records, and possibly for the records of someone you might sell it to. I don't believe people require you to carry these with you when you go to other peoples tracks.

3.) Since you will be using distilled water, the only benefit to completely draining the locomotive would be to store it in temperatures bellow freezing (which is a real NO NO). Distilled water will have no particulates (which makes the boiler blow-down completely unneeded) to be left behind while the locomotive is sitting. So there is really no reason to need to drain it, but the best way would probably be to simply turn it upside down and drain it through the fill plug.


Hope that helps a bit.

Good Steaming
 
Save
Reply Quote Like Like
#3 ·
Hi Chester,
welcome to MLS! :)

1. hmm..never heard of heavy grease on a live steamer.
all those parts are normally oiled, not greased.
it's probably grease that was applied at the factory as a rust preventative during shipping..
is this a new locomotive? if so, the grease would make sense.
I would wipe off the grease with a rag, as much as you can, then lube things up with "three in one oil" in the blue container:
3-in-one SAE 20
to make application easier, you can get small oil containers with a long metal applicator, like this:
oil needle applicator
there are other oils that can be used, but this a type of oil commonly used in the hobby..

note, this is *not* the same oil as the steam oil!
steam oil goes in the lubricator, and lubricates the cylinders as the loco ooperates..it is *much* thicker than the general "linkage lubrication oil" ,

two different kinds of oils are used in the operation of a live steam locomotive:

steam oil - goes in the "displacement lubricator" - quite thick oil.
general "lubricating oil"..to lube the running gear, valve gear, axles, etc..


2. No, you dont need to keep the certificate with the loco..you dont even really need to keep it at all.
just file it away somewhere and you can basically forget about it.
the only reason to find it again is if you someday sell the locomotive, it might be nice to have the certificate to go along with the loco.
but the new buyer probably wont care, and it doesn't have to be transferred when a loco is sold..

3. The majority of live steam hobbyists just keep water in the boiler between runs.
there is no real need to drain them each time, the water wont hurt anything.
(you do know to only use distilled water right? ;)
If you know the loco is going to be stored long-term, several years, you might want to drain the boiler, "just because"..
the only way I know of to drain most live steam locos is to suck out the water with a syringe, or tip it upside down and let the water drain out! ;)
most don't have any kind of "boiler drain"..perhaps some high-end locos do, but those are the exception.

In short, dont worry about the water in the boiler..its not a problem to leave it in there between runs.
I have an Accucraft Ruby I have been running perhaps 5 to 8 times a year, for almost 10 years now, and I have never once drained the boiler..

bring on the next questions! ;)

Scot
 
Discussion starter · #4 ·
Thanks Scott & Rambo,

The locomotive is brand new. That shipping grease, for no better name for it, does cover the eccentrics. I think I'll take the locomotive outside and give it a few blasts of WD-40 to clean all the workings and then a shot of oil.

Yes I know the difference between 3-in-1 oil and steam oil.

Thanks for the info about the certificate and water. I've started buying steam distilled water at the super mark in gal. bottles. I may see about gathering some rain water just for giggles. I'll set up a gal. bottle with a funnel in the opening and put it out in the middle of the back yard where it is wide open so the water will be right out of the clouds.

Talk with ya later.

Chester Louis SA #64
Hampshire County Narrow Gauge
 
#5 ·
Note - Rain water is NOT the same as distilled water.

Rain water can have many substances in it depending on where in the world you are and the time of year (acid rain for an extreme example).

Distilled water is water that has been boiled (typically multiple times) and only the steam from the boiled water is collected. This ensures there is nothing but pure H2O (which is why you are not supposed to drink distilled water, but rain water is drinkable).

I would suggest ONLY using distilled water bought from the store in your locomotive(s).
 
Save
Reply Quote Like Like
#6 ·
"which is why you are not supposed to drink distilled water".

I had never heard that before. I would think distiled water would be the best water you could drink as it is pure but it does taste terrible.

"but rain water is drinkable"

"Rain water can have many substances in it depending on where in the world you are and the time of year (acid rain for an extreme example)."
Image
Not even considering what it picks up as it runs off the leaves, the roof and gutters and sits stagnent in that old moss covered oak barrel with the rusty tin dipper hanging in it (now it does taste good though!
Image
).

"I would suggest ONLY using distilled water bought from the store in your locomotive(s). " 100% in agreement with that, I add only distilled water to the cooling systems in my vehicles too. Check the label to see that it is steam distilled and don't use deionized water.
 
#7 ·
yeah, as everyone said, dont use rain water!
rain water is not in fact very "pure" at all..
rain drops form around small particles, there is a lot of "dust and dirt" in rain water..
its great for plants, but not so great for live steam locomotives..

Scot
 
#8 ·
1) Boiler certificates are pretty mandatory in the UK, when you show up at a get together, especially one open to the public. So, when selling world wide, they provide a boiler certificate.
2) US Navy ships distill all boiler and potable water, including drinking water. There are some additives to the drinking water tanks, to prevent algae. Note output of the evaporators is not sent to drinking water tanks while in the harbor, contaminate carryover may occur.

Welcome to Live Steam, let us know where you live, maybe someone would offer an invite to a steamup.

SteveB
 
#9 ·
I also like to recommend that you NOT use WD-40 for anything that needs lubrication. It is a "water displacer" and NOT a lubricant. When it dries, it leaves behind a coating that is somewhat sticky, but REPELS oil... thus parts so treated cannot be lubricated until the sticky residue is removed, which I find very difficult to do.

Try an experiment: Spray a small piece of sheet metal with WD-40, and let it sit for a couple of months to dry. The metal will be somewhat sticky or "grabby" when you run your finger over it and if you rub two pieces together you can detect that there is a lot of friction. Then put some oil on it. The oil will bead up and run off, not sticking around to do any lubrication (or even coating the metal to prevent rust!).
 
#11 ·
give it a few blasts of WD-40 to clean all the workings and then a shot of oil.
I wouldn't do that. Just oil it - the 'grease' will come off on its own once the oil and loco are warm.

WD-40 is a solvent, and will not help your oil unless you get it all off.

Yes I know the difference between 3-in-1 oil and steam oil.
OK, but do you know the difference between the Red 3-in-1 and the Blue 3-in-1 mentioned by Scot?

Blue 3-in-1 is "turbine" oil, not designed to penetrate your rusty bolts, but designed to lubricate spinning shaft bearings (as found in turbines, but often suggested for a/c fans, etc.) There are other brands of turbine oil besides 3-in-1.
 
Discussion starter · #12 ·
Hello to everybody,

Thanks for all the tips and information

Peter, no I didn't know there were different 3-in-1 oils. Thanks for that heads up.

I live in western Massachusetts. There are four or five of us who are getting together with the hopes of maybe starting a club or something.

SteveB, USS Forestall CVA-59, 1967-1969, didn't work on the evaporators, but was still a snipe.

I have found a good source of steam distilled water. Already have four gals. I had read somewhere that rainwater could be used but not after what you all told me.

I will adhere to all that has been said and will pass on should the time ever arises.

Chester Louis SA #64
Hampshire County Narrow Gauge
 
Discussion starter · #16 ·
Yes Carl, I did. I didn't know who to write back and say that I have watched you two videos numerous times and enjoy watching them. and I'll propbly watch them a few more times before firing up my 4-4-0.

Chester Louis SA #64
Hampshire County Narrow Gauge
 
1 - 16 of 16 Posts
About this Discussion
15 Replies
10 Participants
Last post:
HampshireCountyNarrowGage
G Scale Model Train Forum
posts
460K
members
32K
Since
2007
A forum community dedicated to G scale model train owners and enthusiasts. Come join the discussion about collections, displays, models, styles, scales, reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more!
Full Forum Listing
Explore Our Forums
Live Steam General G Scale Discussions Beginner's Forum Model Making Track, Trestles, Bridges and Roadbed