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Dave

There is a different cement that is made just for the gray conduit pipe, where ever you purchase the pipe they will have the cement. On the R.R. that I built all the conduit is in the ground 3ft, that should be the same for you up there in NY.

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Ken
RGSSJD
 
For what it is worth I built a layout years ago with 3/4" PVC. I had a great deal of trouble with getting and keeping the top PVC level (trains fall off track that is not level) and eventually I replaced all of it with composite decking.

In my case (following suggestions at the time) the track was laid directly on the PVC because I had no idea how to get an upper layer that curved with the PVC.

I am not suggesting that PVC cannot work but rather that as they say "the devil is in the details" so if someone does use PVC to be sure to accurately follow directions from someone who has had such a layout up successfully for several years. In my case all the work and materials I put into the PVC project was wasted and a real pain to get rid of.

This is not a recommendation of an alternative - just a suggestion to be careful whatever method is chosen.

Jerry
 
Another use for PVC is to form what will be a trestle roadbed. I laid down one end on roadbed and lashed the other end of 15 feet of PVC to the existing bridge. All this is on a grade and curve. Then I lashed each bent to the PVC allowing for decking to be put on later. Once the footings were set I pulled off the PVC and added decking and track.
Bill
 
Posted By RGSSJD on 01 Oct 2009 06:09 PM
Dave

There is a different cement that is made just for the gray conduit pipe, where ever you purchase the pipe they will have the cement.

I've used my regular plumbing PVC cement on conduit and it works just fine. Both the plumbing pipe and the conduit are PVC. Oatey's (cement manufacturer) website says "Recommended for ALL grades and types of PVC pipe and fittings, potable water, pressure pipe, gas, conduit and DWV." on all their PVC cement products, whether they are clear, blue or gray.
 
Dear all everyone,

Thank you for your great pictures. I saw many pictures that how to connected the PVC pipe standard to the table top. Is it reliable and strudy ? I am also want to doing something similar for my portable layout. I would be very appreciated if anyone of you could send me picture.

Having fun in garden trains,
Tony
 
This is very good info. Anyone have any pictures of the junctions between the lengths of PVC. I am finding it hard to visualize with just the head-on diagram, and I haven't noticed any junctions in the following pictures. I am specifically interested in the Method 2, as I am looking into the best way to put up an elevated track for my steamers...
 
Pardon me for digging up an old thread.

The idea here is that once you fasten the 3 rather flexible pipes together, they become quite rigid?
 
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The idea here is that once you fasten the 3 rather flexible pipes together, they become quite rigid?

Torby - simple answer: Yes. Fasten them with pipe glue and they become very rigid. Rog's track handles some very heavy metal locos.
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And Torby, you can use the cheaper glue. As noted above there are glues for purpose, but seeing as you won't be dealing with water pressures, use the cheapest PVC glue.

John
 
Interesting.

I thought I was looking at buying a little house with a pretty big yard, but something else has happened and maybe not...


Anybody in the market for an absolutely pristine 2010 Honda Civic VP with 925 miles on it?
 
Hi, I apologise for the late-date barge-in, but this is a key subject for me, as I'm planning my first tracklaying for next spring.

Much of this sounds / looks like the sub-chapter article on "Roadbed from Plastic Pipe" in Schleicher's 'The Large Scale Model Railroading Handbook' (my copy is from 2000). That 3-pipe method really intrigued me, for its ability to arrange things in 3D space and fill in with dirt later. However, I was concerned with the PVC conduit becomming brittle over time.

From the posts here though, perhaps that not an issue; so believe me, I'm going back to re-evaluating it. I couldn't see your initial pics Bob (they showed up as X's for some reason), but your narrative gives me the idea. Thanks!! Also, thanks to everyone else who posted pics -- I'd no idea that this approach was being so widely used!

But here's a few comments / questions.

1. About that dirt burial. Let's say you have a PVC-elevated section, about 2' above grade. You come back later, tamp it as best you can, re-pack the next season when it settles, all that. But with hard ground freezes, over time, will the pipes crush or crack? Is the degradation solely due to UV exposure? My guess is yes, and that ground contact isn't the issue. (I think I'm answering my own question, but thanks all for allowing me to think this thru on the air). Comments?

2. Anchoring. I suppose you have to plant the posts below frost line, which is fine with me. I live in Maryland, and my contractor-friend won't be happy until I sink 4' footers for pickin' everything
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. But (not really understanding how frost heave really works and affects things) are there any issues with the ground pushing the whole layout up, then letting it down, repeatedly, resulting in unpredicable joints (e.g., in the spring)?

3. Adhesives. The Schleicher blurb (it was about the method that Bill Baldock had come up with) involved gluing the track directly to the upper pair of pipes. To me, that seems to be asking for trouble if anything gets bumped -- as the adhesives get degraded. But even if a roadbed substrate is introduced in between, with differential expansion / contraction of metal rail vs. plastics, and with simply walking around the track and the ground heaving, won't the adhesives lose the battle? Silicone strongly suggests itself, in my mind... but even that tends to break away. Comments?

4. Pipe Type. Bob, you give great info on schedules / composition options for tighter radii. I need to go down to R4' in some sections, and will have R5' everwhere else. Long story. I was feeling confident about the PVC conduit, as there's a good chance that it's rated for direct burial in various climates. But PEX? And is that the same as CPVC? Bunch of research ahead of me, but that's all good! Any comments?

5. My main question though is about the upper surface. I really didn't like the idea of track being glued right onto the pipes. Instead, I'd so like an impervious, synthetic roadbed material capable of going from elevated to ground, dimensionally expanding at switches and into yards as needed. So what's the "foam" being used in some of the pics? I'd love to use something like that: compliant with grades, easy to sabre-saw, easy to glue (if the adhesive is OK for long term)... Thoughts?

6. Final Suggestion. If all this works, in theory and practice, can a series of diagrams (e.g., cross sections) be come up with? I'll volunteer to the CAD work, if that would be helpful.

Thanks all for permitting me the long-windedness, and, in advance, for any advice. I'd sure love for this method to work!

===Cliff
 
Cliffy,

Here goes from my 'for what it's worth' department....

1) The club I am a member of used the PVC spline ladder method however the posts are still vertical 2" Sch 40 pipe. All of our posts are set in concrete footings to minimize movement. All of our layout was installed using a contractors transit to insure that the sub-roadbed was true and level. Our layout is 'back filled' to the top of the spline ladder with sandy red clay mix. We tamped and water settled both with natures sprinkler and the ones we installed. Our layout is in the panhandle of Florida, so generally speaking we don't have to worry about freezing although we do occasionally see temps in the 20's. Now to answer the question. The degradation I have witnessed has not been from UV where the pipe has remained below the surface of the back fill. My concern is with the water that collects inside the vertical pipes from the sprinklers and rain. A hard freeze with water in the pipes can crack them.

2) Being a 'Damned Yankee' from New Jersey, I can tell you without hesitation if you set your posts in concrete and below the frost line for your area, you should not experience any lifting of the posts from frost. As for the layout staying level, for all the upfront effort to assure level and true, after two years in operation our track work pretty much resembles the CSX main line that passes right by our location. We have all the dips and rolls of the prototype.

3) No experience, we didn't us any adhesives of any kind on the sub roadbed. Track is a combination of anchored occasionally with a screw here or there and free floating.

4) Can't speak to the pipe, but the 1/2" x 1-1/2" splines we used formed easily for our minimum 10'-0" diameter curves. All joints were made mechanically with screws or bolts depending on location.

5) Based upon my experience with our layout, I would not recommend adhesives of any kind for attaching the track to the sub roadbed. Differential expansion and contraction will definitely give you problems. Reference your own thread on track expansion.

6) No comment.

Bob C.
 
Bob,

Your comments are very instructive. Assuming your PVC splines are boards (and not pipes), the method you describe is very similar to the one I'm increasingly in favor of, and that has been recommended by Bob Hyman; http://www.mylargescale.com/Communi...fault.aspx

In an article elsewhere (http://home.comcast.net/~therealms/roadbed.htm), pipe caps were used between the splines, which I believe would help in the important filling / freezing issue you raise.

I agree with your emphasis on setting the posts in concrete, and using a larger pipe size. All makes a lot of sense.

I'm sort of surprised that you can bend 1/2" thick PVC to 5' radius; I'll have to try it! What did you use for spacers between splines? More PVC board?

Thanks very much,

Cliff
 
The split-jaw stuff is really nice, but outside the budget. Shoot, having a place to put a garden is yet again out of budget itself.
 
Roger that Torby, that split-jaw product line looks great.
But how does it hold up, with frost heave? Using 3/4" or 1" pipe posts, and with the ground pushing up against the UHMW roadbed, what breaks first? Or do the posts just pull up?
 
Cliff,

Yes, we used 2 3/8" lg pieces of the spline for the spacers. We used stainless steel sheet metal screws for attachment, they were driven both with and without pre-drill and I do not know of any real performance differences in methodology.

The half inch thickness is pretty flexible. L\Keep in mind that our sub-roadbed was made in the summer months in northwest Florida, so I believe the warmer temps helped. I do admit that ALL PVC material, unless supportd very frequently will sag over time (maybe not short term with heavy weight, but long term), ours has. My opinion, it adds to thr realism. Ihave never seen prototype trackage as good as we try to generate.

Stay safe and warm this evening. I am camped ut in Charlotte, NC for business training. They are expecting 2-6" of snow tomorro, changing over to sleet and freezing rain tomorrow evening into Tuesday mornong. Just peachy!!!

Bob C.
 
Cliff,

I've got aluminum code 250 rail and split-jaws. The clamps are stiffer than the track. The only suggestion I might make is to put some sort of anti-sieze lube on the screws before planting the track. Otherwise they tent to... well, sieze. :)

Trot, the unstuck, fox... ;]
 
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